Upgrade to NVR or continue with NAS

[keeper]

Hi

I've got two Hikvision cameras running on a Synology NAS (216 Play) using Surveillance Station.
I'd like to add two more cameras but this would include an addition cost of £100 for the licence fees.

Do you think this is the best way to go or separate it to a dedicated NVR such as a Hikvision DS-7604NI.

It seems for £42 more I could have a dedicated box taking the network traffic off the NAS and local ethernet network.

Any views on the best way forward in terms of technology and software usage.
Not sure I could get a small PC for this amount to run Blue Iris.

Many Thanks Phil

 

[alastairstevenson]

Any views on the best way forward in terms of technology and software usage.

I'm familiar with and use QNAP's Surveillance Station - but not Synology, but believe them to be very similar, also $60 per licence over the base number.
One major missing feature on QNAP's SS is the support for Hikvision's 'smart events' - there is none.
So you can't take advantage of Line Crossing or Intrusion Detection features - only Motion detection.

 

[Frankenscript]

I'm a newbie to IP cams and bought an 8 port Hikvision NVR recently. I figured it would be a good way to get started, and indeed it's working fine. However I'm already drooling over a dedicated PC running blue Iris instead. Will probably eventually sell the NVR and replace with a dual NIC PC with one NIC facing my LAN and the other headed out to a POE switch connected to the cams. That would segregate the traffic.

If you cross the line from end user to enthusiast, at that point it probably makes sense to go the PC route.

Again, just my two cents (or pence) as a newbie.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

 

[intention]

So you can't take advantage of Line Crossing or Intrusion Detection features - only Motion detection.

Is this still the case with the newer Qnap Qvr Pro software?
QVR Pro Open Surveillance Platform

 

[mat200]

Is this still the case with the newer Qnap Qvr Pro software?
QVR Pro Open Surveillance Platform

Hi and welcome @intention Did you see any mention there on the Qnap page stating it supports more than motion detection?

QVR Pro Open Surveillance Platform

 

[intention]

Hi and welcome @intention Did you see any mention there on the Qnap page stating it supports more than motion detection?

Hello, and thanks.

Unless region of interest, and zone based notification alerts fall under Intelligent video analysis, then no, I don't think it does.

 

[FoxCR]

I didnt see it either.
I am glad this thread was created. I have a NAS from synology runnig "Surveillance Station 6" which is their ip cam /vms /nvr offering. I am a. It dissapointed that it does. Not support any of the smart camera functions such as trip wire, missing object etc that the new cameras have. It also only does a basic motion detection.

Unfortunately I am starting to think that NAS based NVR are basic because the companies that make them primary focus is the NAS and not NVR VMS.

I dont personally like the interface in blue iris, but I am sure that any VMS with a PC will be better or more capable than a NAS or even a camera brand NVR. I could be wrong but there is a reson many are using a PC for their cameras (like in the old days lol)

 

[intention]

I don't really understand why people use a pc and blue iris for video monitoring. I want to keep my NVR hardware separate from my pc. Also, it seems like blue iris adds another layer of complication.

I don't know much about NVR's though, but if there is a good option, I would run a plug and play NVR with no onboard poa switch, and a separate stand alone poa switch.

 

[mat200]

I don't really understand why people use a pc and blue iris for video monitoring. I want to keep my NVR hardware separate from my pc....

I didnt see it either.
I am glad this thread was created. I have a NAS from synology runnig "Surveillance Station 6" which is their ip cam /vms /nvr offering. I am a. It dissapointed that it does. Not support any of the smart camera functions such as trip wire, missing object etc that the new cameras have. It also only does a basic motion detection.

Unfortunately I am starting to think that NAS based NVR are basic because the companies that make them primary focus is the NAS and not NVR VMS.

I dont personally like the interface in blue iris, but I am sure that any VMS with a PC will be better or more capable than a NAS or even a camera brand NVR. I could be wrong but there is a reson many are using a PC for their cameras (like in the old days lol)

Hi @FoxCR @intention

Re: NAS and their more basic security camera features.

1) So, most NAS boxes are storage boxes, not compute boxes - thus they have lower powered processors and RAM than many computers. Thus the offerings in this area for security cameras are more associated with storing the video feeds and not actually doing the more compute intensive operations associated with more advanced features.

2) Better IP security cameras compute functions within the camera ( aka really an IP computer with a camera ) and send that info out via API to either a NVR or VMS by the same OEM - typically here we are talking about Hikvision OEM or Dahua OEM each with their own APIs. As the compute is done on the camera you can have a less powerful NVR or VMS system doing it this way, but that system needs to understand the API being used. Thus why the general rule here to get the same OEM for the cameras as for the NVR if you are going the NVR route. The NVR in these systems primary focus is to record, and coordinate the cameras configuration / settings, and display what the cameras send ( including the motion detection alerts, IVS compute ) as well as handle those API notifications and act upon them. ( example - motion detection triggers an alert - which now sends a video clip to someone's email )

3) Blue Iris - and other VMSes which do not use the Hikvision OEM or Dahua OEM APIs do more of the compute in the PC - thus the need for a more powerful PC ( i5/i7 recommended for Blue Iris ).
As it is running on a full featured OS with a full powered CPU and enough memory - there is a lot of flexibility with this solution. This also gives you the ability to connect and mix multiple brands / makes of IP cameras - provided that cameras can provide a standard rtsp and encoded video stream. ( note: see fenderman's note on Blue Iris working with Dahua IVS features )

4) and of course - some sort of cloud option - which kills your bandwidth, so few of us really like this option when considering the compromises it incurs in resolution and quality of continuous recording needs.

THUS, when NAS vendors charge extra for security camera licenses and fail to provide significant value add many of those on this forum opt for Blue Iris, other VMS, or a NVR option ( or a combination of those ).

 

[FoxCR]

@mat200 I completely agree with the facts on you forst point. And thank for for the deilad response.

You mentioned that a PC based VMS solution uses rtsp. Does camera onvif support not come into play in this scenario or route? Also, when using a VMS like blue Iris or others we can use cameras which only stream video and not worry about IVS etc or detections to take place in the camera, since the software and PC will. Okay sounds reasonable.

Besides Blue Iris, what else is there there?

 

[mat200]

@mat200 I completely agree with the facts on you forst point. And thank for for the deilad response.

You mentioned that a PC based VMS solution uses rtsp. Does camera onvif support not come into play in this scenario or route? Also, when using a VMS like blue Iris or others we can use cameras which only stream video and not worry about IVS etc or detections to take place in the camera, since the software and PC will. Okay sounds reasonable.

Besides Blue Iris, what else is there there?

Hi @FoxCR

I'll let the Blue Iris experts chime in.

ONVIF - basically rtsp is a sub-part of this.

What else is there: Look for "free vms at ipvm"

 

[intention]

Thank you. That is very informative mat200.

I was hoping to do option #2 and match some good quality cameras with the same brand NVR. And display them on a lcd tv over hdmi. I want to be able to use full intelligent video analysis like line crossing / tripwire, intrusion detection, face detection, and missing item detection.
It sounds like most of these OEM NVR options have cloud and subscription based service, and require port forwarding leaving any computers on the network exposed.

Blueiris sounds like a full time job to learn, set up, configure, and keep running. I do like the various camera options, but I have no idea if full IVA features like tripwire will function with that type of system or not.

Either way, with Hikvision or Dahua cameras, network security is a problem that needs to be addressed. And figuring out how to set up a VPN and VPS is complicated.

 

[fenderman]

Thank you. That is very informative mat200.

I was hoping to do option #2 and match some good quality cameras with the same brand NVR. And display them on a lcd tv over hdmi. I want to be able to use full intelligent video analysis like line crossing / tripwire, intrusion detection, face detection, and missing item detection.
It sounds like most of these OEM NVR options have cloud and subscription based service, and require port forwarding leaving any computers on the network exposed.

Blueiris sounds like a full time job to learn, set up, configure, and keep running. I do like the various camera options, but I have no idea if full IVA features like tripwire will function with that type of system or not.

Either way, with Hikvision or Dahua cameras, network security is a problem that needs to be addressed. And figuring out how to set up a VPN and VPS is complicated.

Blue iris takes absolutely no more time to configure than an NVR. The is NO additional work to keep it running. The beauty of blue iris is can make it as simple or complicated as you wish.
While dahua ivs works with BI, you wouldnt want to use it, blue iris has a much more capable zone cross functions.
Network security MUST be address with ANY camera. Dont know why you think dahua and hikvision is different. vps? its not relevant here.
Face detection is a gimmic and does not work.
Setting
up a vpn is EASY. Lots of folks with little experience do it here every day. You just need an asus router that makes it simple.
Sounds to me like you should hire someone to do this for you.

 

[FoxCR]

If you dont have the time to invest in learning a bit more of the advanced stuff then yes, got the packaged NVR route. Blue Iris and any other VMS will require some setup. Or, how about you hire someone to set you up.

I have decided to move way from the NAS for now. For a basic setup, maybe does what you need. I have been doing that for a few years.

I have a new in box NAS i can sell you.

 

[fenderman]

I don't really understand why people use a pc and blue iris for video monitoring. I want to keep my NVR hardware separate from my pc. Also, it seems like blue iris adds another layer of complication.

I don't know much about NVR's though, but if there is a good option, I would run a plug and play NVR with no onboard poa switch, and a separate stand alone poa switch.

You would keep it separate from your pc. You would buy a dedicated pc for 100-300 bux. Just as you would an NVR. There is no extra layer of complexity. Its actually easier. That is inexperience talking. There is no such thing as a plug and play NVR despite manufactures claims otherwise.
Digital watchdog has a vms that will allow you to remove view without port forwarding. 70 per camera, but a lifetime of free upgrades.

 

[FoxCR]

@intention, get an NVR. I am most certain that id going to be better than a NAS if you dont want to go the blue Iris route.

@fenderman and everyone else, I putting together a spec for a small form factor pc. However I cant fit a 3.5HD in there. It will instead have an SSD. So here is my question:

Do you guys know if i can have that PC manage the camera and recordings while storing the feed to a 10tb purple drive on a Nas. Via a shared folder. Obviously all cameras, PC (running the VMS) and NAS will be connected to the same switch and be on the same VLan or subnet. In have SPF connectors on my switch that i cam dedicate to the NAS and PC. Or since the NAS has two ethernet ports i can trunk connect it to the my switch.

The advantage is that the NAS supports raid.

Thoughs, would this work?

 

[fenderman]

@intention, get an NVR. I am most certain that id going to be better than a NAS if you dont want to go the blue Iris route.

@fenderman and everyone else, I putting together a spec for a small form factor pc. However I cant fit a 3.5HD in there. It will instead have an SSD. So here is my question:

Do you guys know if i can have that PC manage the camera and recordings while storing the feed to a 10tb purple drive on a Nas. Via a shared folder. Obviously all cameras, PC (running the VMS) and NAS will be connected to the same switch and be on the same VLan or subnet. In have SPF connectors on my switch that i cam dedicate to the NAS and PC. Or since the NAS has two ethernet ports i can trunk connect it to the my switch.

The advantage is that the NAS supports raid.

Thoughs, would this work?

You could store on nas, but for ultimate reliability, store on a local hdd. See wiki for pc's to buy, look the the hp elitedesk/prodesk sff (not usdt). Dont build a machine yourself, that is for suckers.

 

[FoxCR]

I was looking at lenvo, since i have a business account w them. Ill see whats comparable.
Thank you

 

[fenderman]

I was looking at lenvo, since i have a business account w them. Ill see whats comparable.
Thank you

lenovo has systems that hold 3.5 drives. The business account wont help much. You are still way better off buying a refurb/lightly used system. see wiki

 

[FoxCR]

Let me look into it