Thought I was ready to pull the trigger on a system but

[funkybunch]

I've dabbed in here several times, read the cliff notes but still overwhelmed with cameras, international model numbers vs. USA part numbers, which NVR to purchase, the 2mp vs 4mp battle, now we have starlight, starlight plus, and lots of AI features, full night color, etc. My main goal is to purchase about 8 cameras that need to work superb in low light, i'm in the country and the only light source would be ambient light provided from my house. I've read numerous threads saying the 1831 is better than the 5831, the 4239 is better than the 5442, i can't make heads or tails of this. I dont want to order the wrong stuff from andy. is there a guide that has the international part numbers and usa part numbers right on the same sheet so i know what i'm looking at? i'm also looking at a mini ptz, there is supposed to be a 1a404 that replaced the 1a203,i also see a 22204ueni that claims it's new, but i see video reviews on youtube from 2-3 years ago. i'll figure out the varifocal, and mm part, but for the most part just looking for turrets for around the house. do i need a smart one to set rules for motion? i want push notifications when there's an actual person on my property, not a skunk just trying to make sense of it all, thanks! Austin TX.

 

[VorlonFrog]

I've dabbed in here several times, read the cliff notes but still overwhelmed with cameras, international model numbers vs. USA part numbers, which NVR to purchase, the 2mp vs 4mp battle, now we have starlight, starlight plus, and lots of AI features, full night color, etc. My main goal is to purchase about 8 cameras that need to work superb in low light, i'm in the country and the only light source would be ambient light provided from my house. I've read numerous threads saying the 1831 is better than the 5831, the 4239 is better than the 5442, i can't make heads or tails of this. I dont want to order the wrong stuff from andy. is there a guide that has the international part numbers and usa part numbers right on the same sheet so i know what i'm looking at? i'm also looking at a mini ptz, there is supposed to be a 1a404 that replaced the 1a203,i also see a 22204ueni that claims it's new, but i see video reviews on youtube from 2-3 years ago. i'll figure out the varifocal, and mm part, but for the most part just looking for turrets for around the house. do i need a smart one to set rules for motion? i want push notifications when there's an actual person on my property, not a skunk just trying to make sense of it all, thanks! Austin TX.

Let's see what @EMPIRETECANDY and others may have to say!

I'm still using older generation 2MP Starlight cameras, and their picture quality remains extremely good. It seems there are newer 4MP cameras with almost-that-good Starlight performance, but they're not turrets (yet). I'd suggest the 2231 varifocal without audio as a good starting point.

 

[mat200]

I've dabbed in here several times, read the cliff notes but still overwhelmed with cameras, international model numbers vs. USA part numbers, which NVR to purchase, the 2mp vs 4mp battle, now we have starlight, starlight plus, and lots of AI features, full night color, etc. My main goal is to purchase about 8 cameras that need to work superb in low light, i'm in the country and the only light source would be ambient light provided from my house. I've read numerous threads saying the 1831 is better than the 5831, the 4239 is better than the 5442, i can't make heads or tails of this. I dont want to order the wrong stuff from andy. is there a guide that has the international part numbers and usa part numbers right on the same sheet so i know what i'm looking at? i'm also looking at a mini ptz, there is supposed to be a 1a404 that replaced the 1a203,i also see a 22204ueni that claims it's new, but i see video reviews on youtube from 2-3 years ago. i'll figure out the varifocal, and mm part, but for the most part just looking for turrets for around the house. do i need a smart one to set rules for motion? i want push notifications when there's an actual person on my property, not a skunk just trying to make sense of it all, thanks! Austin TX.

Hi @funkybunch

Start with ONE good varifocal IP PoE camera and a small PoE switch. Once you start to play with it, you'll have a better understanding.

Pick up the one volronfrog mentions, and you'll have a good camera to keep. You can pickup different models later, right now just start with that one and also look for the test rig.

 

[funkybunch]

thanks guys, keep the suggestions coming! i thought about buying 1 or 2 cameras and tinkering with them in different locations to see what i need everywhere else. I know the older cameras are still better than what i've got currently, I just want to get the latest bang for the buck. dont need an 8MP cam from 3 years ago when a 2mp or 4mp with starlight+ or full night color will blow it out of the water in my situation. (just an example).

 

[VorlonFrog]

thanks guys, keep the suggestions coming! i thought about buying 1 or 2 cameras and tinkering with them in different locations to see what i need everywhere else. I know the older cameras are still better than what i've got currently, I just want to get the latest bang for the buck. dont need an 8MP cam from 3 years ago when a 2mp or 4mp with starlight+ or full night color will blow it out of the water in my situation. (just an example).

If you understand not to chase megapixels, you're already ahead of a lot of folks. The 2231 varifocal will certainly impress all but the most ridiculously particular folks.

 

[funkybunch]

what about the 2132? and is there a 2431? i'm shooting in the dark here. i'll be plugging it into a poe injector and into my netgear switch for now, just to tinker with it. Andy, if you want a fresh rookie, throw in a camera and i'll do a youtube review of how easy or hard it is for a newbie to get a camera going haha.

 

[SouthernYankee]

You are ahead of the game. Stick with Hikvision darkfighter or Dahua Starlight cameras.

-----------------------------------------
My standard welcome to the forum message.

Please read the IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes and other items in the IP Cam Talk Wiki. The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.

Quick start
1) If you do not have a wired monitored alarm system, get that first
2) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras or ICPT Night eye cameras (Store | IP Cam Talk) if you need good low light cameras.
3) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
4) Do not use wifi cameras.
5) Do not use cloud storage
6) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
7) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
8) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
9) Do not use reolink, ring, nest cameras (they are junk), no cloud cameras
10) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
11) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
12) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
13) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 8ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
14) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
15) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator V3

Cameras to look at
IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+)
IPC-T5442TM-AS Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ - 4MP starlight+
IPC-HDW2231R-ZS Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal
IPC-HDW2231T-ZS-S2 Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231T-ZS-S2 2mp Varifocal Starlight Camera
IPC-HDW5231R-ZE Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
IPC-HFW4239T-ASE IPC-HFW4239T-ASE
IPCT-HDW5431RE-I Review - IP Cam Talk 4 MP IR Fixed Turret Network Camera
DS-2CD2325FWD-I
IPC-T2347G-LU Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera. (DS-2CD2347G1-LU)
N22AL12 New Dahua N22AL12 Budget Cam w/Starlight -- low cost entry

Other dahua 4MP starlight Dahua 4MP Starlight Lineup

My preferred indoor cameras
DS-2CD2442FWD-IW
IPC-K35A

https://ipcamtalk.com/threads/review-dahua-ipc-k35a-3mp-cube-camera.37581/#post-373517

If interested in Blue Iris and other setup items see the following post

Newbie Starter Guide to IP Cam System – VPN setup – Computer Hardware – Blue Iris – Dahua Cameras

This is an intermediate / newbie guide for people just starting out looking for a surveillance setup. I know this setup might not be for everyone and there are many options. You can find a lot of this information in the Wiki: IP Cam Talk Wiki | IP Cam Talk A great place to start in the Wiki...

ipcamtalk.com

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Test do not guess

 

[funkybunch]

thanks for the welcome and advice. i'd hate to buy and return cameras, hoping to buy 1 or 2 and see how they function around the house and go from there. looking for a mini ptz for the 2nd story to zoom into the mailbox instead of a 35mm fixed. eventually i want a large ptz on the tower , the one that can point straight up for live stream skywatches on youtube

so the 2231, i have in my notes as being decent but i think there are some newer ones available, maybe the mini ptz mounted high up will shed enough IR so the other cameras can run without IR and "see" enough light. do these full night color cams hold a candle to the starlights with IR turned off? i want to try a starlight plus also to see what the hype is about, maybe i should be a US distributor? i have about 1000 sq ft of storage

 

[funkybunch]

southern, maybe this will help , see my replies next to yours

i read the cliff notes 6 months ago and again today

1) If you do not have a wired monitored alarm system, get that first - i'm self monitored
2) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras or ICPT Night eye cameras (Store | IP Cam Talk) if you need good low light cameras. - plan on using a dahua nvr
3) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN) - still learning about this, i tried to install a ubiquiti unifi but it went back, tried the amplifi system and it's not customizable enough.
4) Do not use wifi cameras. - i have a samsung and a free chinese cam for wildlife cams, yeah they are junk.
5) Do not use cloud storage - other than ring
6) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports, - done deal
7) More megapixel is not necessarily better. - i agree
8) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most)) i've noticed andys links take me to a different amazon seller, are they ok?
9) Do not use reolink, ring, nest cameras (they are junk), no cloud cameras - tried a reolink, it wouldnt stay in focus and was returned, i'm on my 7th ring camera, it works ok as a doorbell.
10) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR) - yeah turret looks like the way to go
11) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum) - i have some of the same notes already jotted down
12) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2 - i have 7 locations that are pre-wired with cat-6, i built the house and wired where i needed cams for best coverage.
13) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 8ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened. i have other cams for people that get close to the house, the ptz and mini ptz will serve multi functions, they will be the DO of the dori system.
14) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....) still learning about this, i have a 16 port gigabit unmanaged netgear switch, i want to get an 8 or 16 port dahua nvr and let that do everything, maybe down the road try blue iris.
15) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator V3 - very familiar with it

 

[funkybunch]

i've been reading about cameras for an entire 2 days now, i'm starting to get a grasp but have a few questions.

is there an international 2019 product catalog? dahua wiki only shows 2018, I found a 2019 but it's HDCVI only, that said, is it safe to say if there's a hdcvi camera/specs listed that the IP version is also available with a different prefix on the part number?

flipping between international and usa part numbers is a pain. from the best of my knowledge there's several 2mp starlight turret cams out there, some of the specs are identical, one cam has an M and i believe it has a metal housing whereas the other is plastic. I just wish there was an easier guide or brochure available that lists all the current cameras in order by MP, and if it's varifocal, or starlight, enhanced, N45D starlight plus, full color, etc. looking for a website similar to best buy when shopping for TV's, you can select 4k, the brand, the screen size, etc, does that make sense?

i dont want to pass up a starlight-plus camera if it's available, and i assume full color is just that, with no IR lights, then we have AI cameras, some say you dont need an ai nvr for an ai camera to work properly, i'd love to play with ai but i think i need to walk before i run

what do you gain going from lite to pro to ultra? i want the newest 2mp starlight or starlight plus turret varifocal to play with the mm, and does the 4239 2mp color see better at night than the 2231 starlight with IR off? i know the color cams need 1.0 lux, i have a pair of 25 watt driveway lights, not sure if that will cut it. i want the best night camera without IR, and a varifocal, lets start there sorry for all the questions, i didnt make much progress today, i still have over 20 tabs open on my screen and pages within to read

 

[aristobrat]

Most folks here don't use US part numbers because Dahua US doesn't sell many of the popular international models anyways (i.e. no 2MP Starlight varifocal turrets), and it's almost always cheaper to buy the cameras through Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) who has been selling to forum members here for years. His track record for service and support is ridiculously good.

Dahua's new "AI Pro" series (I think you'll only see these on their website if you set the location to "International", not "US") has models that use bigger 4MP 1/1.8" sensors that do better than the 2MP Starlights in low light... these new models are labeled Starlight+. Unfortunately there isn't a varifocal turret model (just fixed-lens), but there are varifocal bullets and domes. These new models mostly have 5442 in their model numbers and are becoming the models that get most recommended for low-light situations (instead of the 2MP Starlights like the 5231). The one exception for this is for folks looking for a varifocal turret. Since there isn't a 5442 vf turret model, the new 2231 S2 (which has better low-light specs than the old 2231 or current 5231) or 5231 (if you need a built-in mic) get the nod for folks looking for vf turrets.

Most of the Dahua "Full Color" models I've seen will still flip to B/W if the light level gets low enough. I have a 5442 "Full Color" turret and it doesn't perform any better in low light than the regular 5442 turret, ... the only difference is that they swapped out the normal IR lights with LED lights. When it gets dark enough at night, those LED lights turn on and really brighten up the area in front of the 5442 Full Color model. Great if you have a porch or something you want a bright white light shining on, but if you're looking a camera that works like a normal security camera at night (i.e. uses IR light to invisibly (to the human eye, anyway) light up the scene) then the 5442 Full Color isn't it.

I use Blue Iris instead of a Dahua NVR and the "AI" part of the 5442 cameras that filters IVS alerts to only trigger if a vehicle and/or person is detected works fine. IVS is Dahua's "advanced" motion detection -- you'll definitely want to use that and not motion detection. Anyhow IVS has been around for a long time and these new AI part is just two extra check boxes (one for "filter on vehicles", the other for "filter on people"), so it's not hard to learn/use. There may be more other complex areas of AI that require more learning, but I think most will be happy with those two AI filters.

For your cameras, why do you want IR off? IMO in truly low light situations, you're more likely to get more useful video from a camera that's switched to B/W mode (and is using IR) than a Full Color camera. If you have a decent amount of light to work with, then a Full Color camera might be useful. Since there aren't any Full Color (or 5442 series) varifocal turrets, if you can live without sound, I'd recommend the new 2231 S2 varifocal turret.

As for what the difference is between Lite, Pro and Ultra ... it varies, but Lite series usually have slightly less powerful hardware in them and often can't run there sub streams (which is a feature most people don't need). For the 2MP Starlight models, the Ultra series got an even bigger sensor (usually 1/1.8" vs 1/2.8") so the low light specs were even better. But it often was $100 (or more) expensive and a some folks felt it wasn't that much better in low light to justify the price.

In general I'd recommend getting familiar with being able to go to the Dahua International site, finding models you're interested in, and getting comfortable with reading the spec sheets. There's a lot of lines on them, but if you focus on the image sensor, megapixels, minimum illumination requirements and DORI distances, I think you'll start to get comfortable with being able to compare and sort the models. Then look for review threads on here for those models and see what people who own them are saying.

 

[funkybunch]

thanks aristobrat! the more i read and learn from you guys the more it starts to make sense! let me see if my notes are correct:

they make two different turret models of the 5442, one has IR, and the other has LED's instead of IR? i'd get one of each and let the IR of one light up the color only one but i dont think thats the case, something to do with the lack of an IR filter. also, why doesnt the LED turn on when motion is detected? even the costco lorex cams do this.

so the 2231-S2 is the 2231 replacement, and the 5231 is the same as a 2231 but has a mic? there's no 5231-S2 yet?

reason behind no IR is that i dont want it to stick out. i laughed when i saw the new ubiquity cams with the spinning blue circle to *attract* attention

what is the 4MP 1/1.8 starlight you speak of? the 5442? any difference in the led vs IR version? and is there a better camera out? i think they call it N45D or E, still learning what those actually are. and is 8MP worth it yet? the 1831? no turret yet i take it? they say dont chase megapixels but technology has advanced in the last few years. keep all the great suggestions coming! next will be a mini ptz purchase, looking at the ole 1a203tni (not sure what this is in international part #) looks like it was dethroned to the 22204 or a1404xb, but honestly after watching video comparisons online the sd29204ue-gn floats my boat unless there's something better. trying to stay away from 3mp and 5mp formats, they just look funky to me.

i think that's it for now, i'm sure i'll have more questions later tonight keep all the great suggestions coming! thanks guys!

 

[mat200]

thanks aristobrat! the more i read and learn from you guys th.. keep all the great suggestions coming! thanks guys!

Hi @funkybunch

You've done a good job reading, imho it is time to:
Pick up one of the models from SouthernYankee's "Cameras to look at " list and a small PoE switch and start playing with it.

Don't worry - those are all good cameras worth keeping - so even if you want to buy another model for many of your cameras I think you'll be pleased with any of those as a test camera to keep.

 

[funkybunch]

Hi @funkybunch

You've done a good job reading, imho it is time to:
Pick up one of the models from SouthernYankee's "Cameras to look at " list and a small PoE switch and start playing with it.

Don't worry - those are all good cameras worth keeping - so even if you want to buy another model for many of your cameras I think you'll be pleased with any of those as a test camera to keep.

exactly, however i was going to use a poe injector for now, i plan on going the dahua nvr route, that's a whole different search. blue iris is way down the road for me

 

[funkybunch]

i guess i'm waiting for that supercamera, the 4MP starlight + that has IR, AND LED's, full color, varifocal with a microphone, kinda combining a 5442 with the 2231S2. am i on the right track? to show you how crazy this has been, im looking at my notes and i wrote down 5431 and now i have to go back and see what that one is. so many model numbers.

 

[mat200]

i guess i'm waiting for that supercamera, the 4MP starlight + that has IR, AND LED's, full color, varifocal with a microphone, kinda combining a 5442 with the 2231S2. am i on the right track? to show you how crazy this has been, im looking at my notes and i wrote down 5431 and now i have to go back and see what that one is. so many model numbers.

HI funkybunch,

Indeed

Also remember the the details after the 5431 also matter... lol, so yes lots of numbers. They make piles of versions of cameras... and even more when you consider the modified variations sold under brands like Amcrest, Lorex, ...

 

[funkybunch]

HI funkybunch,

Indeed

Also remember the the details after the 5431 also matter... lol, so yes lots of numbers. They make piles of versions of cameras... and even more when you consider the modified variations sold under brands like Amcrest, Lorex, ...

it looks like i'm going to try a 2231S2 varifocal and a 5442, are both color, one has IR and the other has LED? has anyone compared the 2231S2 against the 5442 non-LED yet? i wish those silly LED's came on when it detected motion. I want to try color for the front yard , hoping my 25w driveway light is enough to be able to show the color of a car passing by at least.