Long Time Listener, First Time Caller - Dahua/Empire 4k Color Cams

[Kevin Doe]

My first real intro here. I'll skip the intro section, since I'm going straight into the meat and potatoes in this post as well. I'm setting up my first camera setup, so most all of this stuff is new to me. I've been into hobby photography for many years, so image sensors, focal length, aperture, shutter, ISO (looks like gain here), etc. aren't totally new to me. I'm a mechanical engineer by day, designing and implementing instrumentation for a large aerospace propulsion company.

I purchased a set of equipment form Andy.

• IPC-Color4K-X. 4 in 2.8mm, and 1 in 3.6mm
• NVR5216-16P-4KS2E. I bought two WD Purple Pro 10TB HDDs for it.

I've stumbled around the various software (web interface in IE, web interface in chrome, direct plug in to the NVR, SmartPSS, and DMSS) and figured out a lot of things. First was that all the interfaces don't all have the same capabilities. Seems some options just aren't there in some of the user interfaces. I've successfully figured out how to setup recording of various types (thought I think I'll just record 24/7 in 4k 30FPS and overwrite every 20 days or so), setup IVS, get alerts to my phone, etc. So here goes, this is what I haven't been able to get working just right.

1. Interfacing the camera settings page. In IE, I can see more options than I see in Chrome. But in IE, sometimes the video loads, and other times it says I need to install a plug-in, which I do, and then it still has an error. Sometimes a PC restart gets the interface working. If I click the "webpage" icon for channel 1 when viewing in Chrome, it will not open, page does not exist. But when I click the icon for channels 2-5 it works opens the page fine. If I try the same things in IE, it will open channel 1, but then sometimes I have the plug-in issue. For for me to access all of the camera settings I have to use IE, but it's unreliable. For reliability, I'd use Chrome, but then I can't access channel 1 settings, and all of the settings don't show up.

2. The live playback, and previously recorded playback on my PC, whether through the web interface or SmartPSS is choppy. There seems to be a fixed time that the video/audio hands up, almost like a glitch every second or 1.5 seconds. My networks is like this: I hardwired multiple shielded CAT6A jacks to every room, plus my camera locations. The "data center" side of all the CAT6A jacks terminates to a patch panel. The jacks that used by cameras all go from the patch panel directly to the NVR. The other jacks used by my PC and other things like TVs go to an unmanaged Gigabit switch, which is connected to my WiFi router. The NVR is connected to the switch, and the PC is also connected to the switch. Everything is hardwired.

When I view the video directly on the NVR, the playback is smooth.

3. DMSS app. When viewing live things seem to work fine. When playing back also ok, most of the time. Sometimes issues where I scroll to the time I want, and it ignores that and starts from 00:00:00 or something. When I get an alert from an IVS rule, if I tap on that, it tries to load, then I get a "Connection Failed." message.

4. For the video profiles, "night" and "day". I have them set based on sunrise and sunset currently, but that changes everyday, and quite a bit over 6 months. Is everyone just remembering to change when the profiles change every month or so?

5. Working to dial in the video quality. I'll post some videos and settings, and look for some help with this.

6. (Added this one late). When I log into the web interface with the IP address, I get a warning that it's not safe, and I have to click a few buttons to continue anyways. What's up with that?

So far I've learned a ton from this community, and want to thank everyone for helping me figure things out to this point, and prevent me from buying a Ring setup like the rest of my neighbors.

 

[wittaj]

Good choices

Make sure you look at the @bigredfish NVR ultimate guide to set this up.

***PSA for those with a New DAHUA NVR with Built-in PoE switch

IF you have a Dahua NVR with built-in PoE switch... DO NOT follow instructions telling you to use the config tool or switch the IP of your cameras or initialize anything..! With NVR's typically with a -P designation (Built-n PoE switch - example: 4208-8P-4KS2) none of that is required and it...

ipcamtalk.com

Regarding your camera setup, much to learn you do LOL...

Shutter speed is more important than FPS. 30FPS is a waste of storage space and compromises your entire system.

Shutter speed gives you the ability to stop the video to get a clean capture. FPS only gives smoothness. But if it is maxing out the capacity of the camera, then other parameters have to give to make 30 FPS and that is usually slowing the shutter....

Keep in mind that these type of cameras, although are spec'd and capable of these various parameters, real world testing by many of us shows if you try to run these units at higher FPS and higher bitrates than needed that you will max out the CPU in the unit and then it bugs out just long enough that you miss something or video is choppy. My car is rated for 6,000RPM redline, but I am not gonna run it in 3rd gear on the highway at 6,000RPM...same with these types of units - gotta keep them under rated capacity. Some may do better than others, but trying to use the rated "spec" of every option available is usually not going to work well, either with a car or a camera or NVR.

Look at all the threads where people came here with a jitter in the video or IVS missing motion or the SD card doesn't overwrite and they were running 30FPS and when people tell them to drop the FPS and they dropped the FPS to 15FPS the camera became stable and they could actual freeze frame the image to get a clean capture. The goal of these cameras are to capture a perp, not capture smooth motion. When we see the news, are they showing the video or a freeze frame screen shot? Nobody cares if it isn't butter smooth...getting the features to make an ID is the important factor. As always, YMMV...

Further, these types of cameras are not GoPro or Hollywood type cameras that offer slow-mo capabilities and other features. They "offer" 30FPS and 60FPS to appease the general public that thinks that is what they need, but you will not find many of us here running more than 15 FPS; and movies are shot at 24 FPS, so anything above that is a waste of storage space for what these cameras are used for. If 24 FPS works for the big screen, I think 15 FPS is more than enough for phones and tablets and most monitors LOL. Many of my cameras are running at 12FPS.

In fact, many times if a CPU is maxing out, it will adhere to the 30FPS but then slow the shutter down to try to not max the CPU, which then produces a smooth blurry image..that is the video my neighbor gets who insists on running 60FPS. He gets smooth walking people but you can't freeze frame it cause every frame is a blur, meanwhile my 12FPS gets the clean freeze frame. Shutter speed is more important the FPS. We both run the same shutter speed by the way, but his camera CPU is maxing out and something gotta give when you push it that hard.

 

[Kevin Doe]

Thank you for that detailed explanation. I had no idea that there were CPU limitations. I thought I could run 30 FPS and whatever shutter speed I set (or range that I set). Based on your recommendations in the other thread, I'm going to switch from H265 to H264, and drop the FPS. In the other thread you were talking about iFrame. I don't see that listed anywhere in my settings, where can I find that?

Should I look to be using H264, H264B, or H264H?

 

[wittaj]

You will find iframes under the page where you set FPS and coding. If it isn't there, then you probably turned on the anti-flicker.

Most use plain H264. Some systems get problematic with the other variants.

 

[Kevin Doe]

I'm going to be factory resetting my NVR and Cameras and following the BigRedFish NVR setup instructions, in hopes that this fixes a lot of my issues I'm experiencing. As a part of that I want to make sure I've got the right firmware installed on the NVR and cameras.

Camera Firmware:

• Currently installed (IPC-Color4K-X): V2.840.15OG002.0.R, Build Date: 2021-09-08. Installed on cam's directly from Andy.
• I see this in the downloads section: IPC-Color4K-X 20210908 Firmware Same date, but the description of the new features includes items that I do not currently see.
• Should I stay with the current version, or is the one in the link above better?

NVR Firmware:

• Currently installed (NVR5216-16P-4KS2E): V4.001.0000006.1, Build Date: 2021-07-09. I updated this based on this link from Andy: Latest New NVR5xxx-4KS2 General_NVR5XXX-4KS2_MultiLang_V4.001.0000006.1.R.210709
• Is this still the latest and greatest?

I want to make sure I'm using the best firmware available before I factory reset and setup everything up again. Thanks for the help!

 

[Flintstone61]

IE Tab in Chrome works as well for viewing NVR feeds. its a plugin to Edge and Chrome browsers. I use it for my NVR's. not sure it's be all, solve all, do all, but it does work.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Generally, it's best to do a factory reset prior to installing new firmware. YMMV.

 

[Kevin Doe]

Generally, it's best to do a factory reset prior to installing new firmware. YMMV.

Roger that, thanks. Do you happen to know which firmware I should be using?

 

[sebastiantombs]

I don't own a color 4K-X so I can't say. @Wildcat_1 would be the authority on that question.

 

[NightLife]

Roger that, thanks. Do you happen to know which firmware I should be using?

One of the things you will read is that oft times it is good to stay with the FW you have that is working well. Balance that with the features you see in an update which you would like to have. If you don't see something on the menu, and your camera is working just fine then perhaps sit that update out..

 

[SouthernYankee]

firmware... if it is not broke do not fix it.

DO NOT UPGRADE your NVR or camera unless you absolutely have a problem that needs to be fixed, and you know the upgrade will fix the problem. You must known what you are doing if you upgrade you may turn it into a brick !!

There are a number of post from people that upgrade a camera and lost the feature that they were using in the upgrade.

 

[wittaj]

To echo others...

A common theme around here is don't fix what ain't broke. If the unit is working and meets your needs, in many instances an update breaks what you had working and provides you with something you didn't need. In most instances, updates are security vulnerability patches (usually years after the breach was found), but since we do not give our cameras internet access, the update is useless to us.

Here are issues I have seen people report where they were upgrading just for the sake of upgrading:

• A Dahua Z12E that someone updated and then constantly reboots comes to mind,
• The Dahua 49225 PTZ that loses autotracking with an update come to mind,
• A Hikvision ANPR camera losing half the FPS and loses the ability to read US plates - those are big deals to have happen.
• Countless other instances where the camera simply bricked and became useless.
• Countless examples where the camera went into Chinese.

Don't do it unless it is fixing a problem you are experiencing or adds a feature you really need.

Further, it is best to obtain any firmware updates from the vendor you purchased it from so that you do not run into issues. Any firmware you find here or elsewhere is obviously proceed at your own risk. We have many threads here where someone tried an update with a firmware they found on the internet and bricked their unit.

Many units being sold are Chinese hacked units that will either brick or go into Chinese upon updating. Some vendors will be upfront and tell consumers that as part of their website, but many do not or the consumer forgets...here is one such example....

 

[NightLife]

firmware... if it is not broke do not fix it.

DO NOT UPGRADE your NVR or camera unless you absolutely have a problem that needs to be fixed, and you know the upgrade will fix the problem. You must known what you are doing if you upgrade you may turn it into a brick !!

There are a number of post from people that upgrade a camera and lost the feature that they were using in the upgrade.

This is precisely why I pumped the brakes on a recent FW update consideration with my Color4K-X. I use it to observe wildlife, and have discovered the very best setting which allows an animal to be captured is the "Abandoned Object". Well, when I closely looked over the FW update details, there it was .. 'Abandoned Object has been removed'. What??? haha. I guess most people didn't care, but my foxes need that homeland security AI to be caught .. they're sly mofos, after all.

So no FW update for my camera. It would break the only thing going that really works in my case.

 

[Kevin Doe]

So I'm going to factory reset, and follow the BigRedFish NVR setup guide, to hope this fixes some of my issues. Went to reset my first camera, and get this message:



How long does this take? Been sitting on this page for about 5 minutes or more. Should I refresh the browser at some point?

 

[wittaj]

It can take a little bit of time. At some point it will say IP address cannot be reached.

But I have got anxious before too and hit refresh until the IP address cannot be reached and then I start the process.

 

[NightLife]

Anyone over a certain age waits. Not because patience came with aging, but because we're that generation who became used to 'overnight' downloads. Oh, and we're the idiots who also woke up to 99% downloaded .. and then ERROR .. We're sorry, try again later! haha


F***, I hated that shite. So glad to now live in a world where at least once in a while we're greeted with effortless tech that just works, without all the endless hours of BS.

 

[Kevin Doe]

I waited about 30 minutes and realized it probably wasn't doing anything, then refreshed.

So I just got done resetting the cameras and the NVR. Set a static IP for the NVR of 192.168.1.254, but cannot access from my PC. They are on the same network (my router is wired to an unmanaged gigabit switch, and my PC and NVR are both connected to the swtich). I'm guessing it has something to do with the router/firewall, but I'm not that good with this stuff yet. Any ideas?

My router page under "network->LAN" lists the IP address as 192.168.0.1. Maybe that's the issue. Should I set the NVR to 192.168.0.254 instead of 192.168.1.254?

 

[wittaj]

Yes, the first three sets of numbers have to be the same.

 

[Kevin Doe]

Yes, the first three sets of numbers have to be the same.

That worked, thanks! I'm just thrilled that I figured something out on my own.... kinda.

 

[wittaj]

Hopefully your setting this up with the bigredfish guide will be quick and painless!