Long Time Listener, First Time Caller - Dahua/Empire 4k Color Cams

Adding more or lower cameras right now is probably completely off the table for me (wife would shit). Maybe if I wait a while, lol. I would be open to swapping out a few of the 2.8mm for 3.6mm, or a different camera if that were to help significantly, and if I could do so without a huge expense.

Another option for the entry doors is something very small like a doorbell camera. Thanks don’t really care about the doorbell function, but it could be mounted higher than normal around eye level. Thoughts?
 
Kevin Doe said:
Adding more or lower cameras is probably completely off the table for me (wife would shit). I would be open to swapping out a few of the 2.8mm for 3.6mm, or a different camera if that were to help significantly, and if I could do so without a huge expense.

Another option for the entry doors is something very small like a doorbell camera. Thanks don’t really care about the doorbell function, but it could be mounted higher than normal around eye level. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

The 5442 series varifocals are either same price or cheaper than the 4K/X. Use my distance recommendations in a previous post on this thread as to which one to get.

You may have missed my post that came in just as yours was:

Do not be limited by thinking they have to go on the house. People here have put them on fences, in birdfeeders, in the mulch looking like an accent light, someone took one of those WELCOME signs that are popular crafts now and cut out the o in the O and put a camera there. There are lot's of ways to hide these cameras.

The welcome sign at the front door option works very well - hides the camera and provides an angle that is tough for a perp to hide from.

Putting the camera higher to prevent tampering or theft is silly. Most people are oblivious to them anyway and if they want to damage them, they will regardless of where placed. My neighbor has had his on his fence post that is less than 3 feet from the public sidewalk. Cams are only 4 feet high and nobody has touched them...most haven't even noticed them! They have been there for years.

You may think your wife would $#!+ if you got more cameras...but what about the car getting broke into and your $1,000 worth of current gear can only tell her what time it happened but no clean images of the person because the cams are too high. Then you will hear "WTF did you buy $1,000 worth of gear that provides nothing the police can use". Members here have had that happen to them LOL. Better to take the tongue lashing now than if something happens and something is stolen. Then you will hear it!

Your wife will love the wide angle view you can see the whole property and will hate the optically zoomed in pinch points UNTIL it provides the money shot.
 
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You purchased the 16 channel camera, so you must envision adding more as time/budget allows. Here are my thoughts:

Front Porch (2.8mm): Installed 8.5 feet high. Distance from lens to the head/face of an average adult is 12'. The close focus distance for the 3.6mm is 17.7', so that lens won't be able to focus at 12'. So I chose the 2.8mm. It lists identify as 27.2', so I figured I'd be good at 12'.

Current shot is a great overview of most of the front yard, part of the driveway, most of the front porch. The one time you might get someone looking up it will be blocked by the column. If they do not look right at the porch, you at best get a side profile. Most perps will be looking down and to the left against the brick wall checking to see if anyone is home.

Consider the welcome sign camera idea or a planter or something else to get a lower camera. A 5442 fixed turret would be perfect here.


Driveway (2.8mm): Installed 11.25 feet high. Distance from the lens to the head/face standing at the drivers door of my car is 20'. Could have picked either, but it was within the identify range of the 2.8, so I thought I'd be able to identify at 20', and have a better overall view.

Current shot is a great overview of most of the front yard, people exiting the front door, most of the driveway. Will get top of heads of perps. The basketball backboard blocks the "ideal" location/distance with which someone may be looking around.

Need a minimum of 2 cameras if a car is parked outside. One on either side in a criss-cross pattern. Even better is a 3rd in the middle. The 5442 varifocals would be perfect here.

Stick a turret on the basketball pole. Paint it black and it is now a location a perp wouldn't expect to see a camera and you get the easy money shot.

Anything else you want to cover in this area? If so, another camera is needed.


Back Porch (2.8mm): Installed 10 feet high. Distance from the lens to the head/face standing right at the base of the steps is 7'. Again, thought the 3.6mm would not be able to focus at that close range.

Current shot is a good overview camera. Keep and add or consider replacing with a 5442 turret and lower it. Paint it to match the siding and it will blend right in.


Back Yard/Shed (3.6mm): Installed 9.5 feet high. Distance to the shed is 75'. I went 3.6mm to get zoomed in further. Still well past the identify range. Maybe/probably should have picked a different camera that has a larger number focal length (6mm or 12mm).

Current shot is a good overview camera - can see additional seating area, shed, and most of the backyard.

If you want to cover the shed and the seating area to IDENTIFY, that is two more cameras. The 5442 varifocal turret for the seating area and the 5442-Z4E bullet or the 5241-Z12E for the shed.

The problem with trying to cover the shed from this location is backlighting with most of the light behind the person. It will be a black silhouette at night -totally useless.

If the shed is important to cover, consider placing a camera on and in the shed.


Garage (2.8mm): Installed 9 feet high. Distance to the front edge of the garage is 20', so I assumed I'd be able to identify anyone within the garage.

Probably the one location you have the most flexibility with. I would consider a turret and place it closer to the outlet. Could keep this vantage point as an overview.


At the end of the day, you have to decide the purpose of the cameras. If you are content with the wide angle, see everything just to know what is going on, then you are in good shape.

The problem is once something happens, you will see that the only useful information is what time it happened.

You are getting the advice and wisdom of the folks here that have been there. Every time something happens in my neighborhood, I re-assess my cameras and the coverage. Sometimes I do not need to do anything. Other times it is replace or add a camera.
 
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Great advice. Thank you for taking the time to write up such a thoughtful reply.

As far as adding cameras in locations, the ethernet cable may be difficult to home run back to my NVR. If I were to add some thing say, on a basketball pole, how would you deal with the Ethernet cable?

There are two locations that I already ran an additional wire. The location where the camera is on the front porch, has another ethernet cable home run to the NVR. And there is another cable run to the right of the camera pointed at the shed. Basically on the other corner of the kitchen bump out in the back. If you look closely, you can see the round mounting box for that one. But no camera installed. Edit, it is just out of you in the photo.
 
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These work very well to add cameras on the end of a run.

Amazon.com : Loryta PoE Extender Mini Passive 2 Port POE Switch, IEEE 802.3af/at POE Extender, POE Repeater, Ethernet Splitter, Powering 2 POE Devices (IP Camera) Over One Cat5/6 Cable PFT1300 : Electronics

Amazon.com : Loryta PoE Extender Mini Passive 2 Port POE Switch, IEEE 802.3af/at POE Extender, POE Repeater, Ethernet Splitter, Powering 2 POE Devices (IP Camera) Over One Cat5/6 Cable PFT1300 : Electronics
www.amazon.com

I would suggest outdoor rated cable and then if you wanted to put it in conduit up the pole. Cannot tell if you have a downspout close by to hide the cable next to it coming down from attic. Hopefully you have an expansion crack in the concrete you could get the cable in or expand it a bit to make that happen.
 
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I had no idea that there was such a thing as a passive switch. Good to know. I did run a conduit from my second floor attic to the basement in event I need to run another cable, worst case scenario.

Come to think of it, I did run a few extras. I have an extra in the soffit of the porch, in the back soffit near the shed camera, and in the garage. So maybe opens options a bit.

Now onto other things for a moment. Since I re-configured the NVR/Cameras following BigRedFish's guide, I can't get the DMSS app on my phone to work as it did before (I had P2P turned on, and NVR to DHCP before). I was unable to add the NVR by scanning the QR code like last time. I was able to add it manually in the app by entering in the IP of 192.168.0.254. It seems to work to view live footage, but the alerts aren't working like they used to. There is a new message that says, "Devices bound through local binding cannot save alarm messages. Each time you close DMSS App, messages from these device will be lost." I also can't access anything when I'm not on my own WiFi network.
 
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Glad to hear you have some more options and runs to get the coverage you want. You have a great looking place and looks like a new subdivision, so I am sure the perps will look at it as new material to try, so kudos to you for being proactive on this. They are building a few new homes down the street from me and it has been a hot target this year for perps coming through stealing stuff from new construction and door checking as they go past.

Calling @bigredfish on the NVR issues.
 
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Kevin Doe said:
I had no idea that there was such a thing as a passive switch. Good to know. I did run a conduit from my second floor attic to the basement in event I need to run another cable, worst case scenario.

Come to think of it, I did run a few extras. I have an extra in the soffit of the porch, in the back soffit near the shed camera, and in the garage. So maybe opens options a bit.

Now onto other things for a moment. Since I re-configured the NVR/Cameras following BigRedFish's guide, I can't get the DMSS app on my phone to work as it did before (I had P2P turned on, and NVR to DHCP before). I was unable to add the NVR by scanning the QR code like last time. I was able to add it manually in the app by entering in the IP of 192.168.0.254. It seems to work to view live footage, but the alerts aren't working like they used to. There is a new message that says, "Devices bound through local binding cannot save alarm messages. Each time you close DMSS App, messages from these device will be lost." I also can't access anything when I'm not on my own WiFi network.
Click to expand...

lets take them one at a time

1- You CAN see the cameras live and playback on DMSS via your local network - check. I add mine by IP always
2- You Can't see them remote or away from home. Thats because you are outside your home LAN and need to use a VPN to tunnel into your network from remote locations. if you could, so could every hacker on the planet and you would soon lose ownership of your NVR ;) See OpenVPN which is a whole other discussion.
3- Im not a DMSS app expert, each version introduces new bugs and "alerts" are the most discussed. I have my NVR send me emails for critical camera views and IVS events, Most of the time I can get a "ding" from DMSS but rarely a video or image. I think it really wants you to use P2P but I dont use it. I need to play with the newest version of the app myself.
 
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Kevin Doe said:
I had no idea that there was such a thing as a passive switch. Good to know. I did run a conduit from my second floor attic to the basement in event I need to run another cable, worst case scenario.

Come to think of it, I did run a few extras. I have an extra in the soffit of the porch, in the back soffit near the shed camera, and in the garage. So maybe opens options a bit.

Now onto other things for a moment. Since I re-configured the NVR/Cameras following BigRedFish's guide, I can't get the DMSS app on my phone to work as it did before (I had P2P turned on, and NVR to DHCP before). I was unable to add the NVR by scanning the QR code like last time. I was able to add it manually in the app by entering in the IP of 192.168.0.254. It seems to work to view live footage, but the alerts aren't working like they used to. There is a new message that says, "Devices bound through local binding cannot save alarm messages. Each time you close DMSS App, messages from these device will be lost." I also can't access anything when I'm not on my own WiFi network.
Click to expand...

You have a great approach to learning here. Awesome to read your posts. Some people get defensive about the money they've already spent.

I used, still use even, a set of these to get extra cams to where I couldn't run another drop. Or I didn't want the hassle of running another line. But unsure if a NVR will recognize those properly... I don't use an NVR.

1638924859000.png

I don't have any of those color cams...yet. What's your night time settings for exposure...
 
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I think you then have to install a certificate which I haven't attempted. I dont have it enabled on any of mine. It will also change ports and use 443 instead of port 80 I believe...
 
bigredfish said:
3- Im not a DMSS app expert, each version introduces new bugs and "alerts" are the most discussed. I have my NVR send me emails for critical camera views and IVS events, Most of the time I can get a "ding" from DMSS but rarely a video or image. I think it really wants you to use P2P but I dont use it. I need to play with the newest version of the app myself.
Click to expand...

Since I'm not very educated on networking, I want to make sure I don't do something stupid and compromise my network security unknowingly, I've got a few questions when looking at this DMSS Users Manual.

In order to "add device" you can chose add to "local" or "account". It seem that if you add it as local (which is the only way without enabling P2P I think), then the alerts don't get pushed to the app/your phone. I'm considering enabling the P2P on the NVR to allow the notifications to reach my phone. I don't really know what P2P is, or does networking wise though. Does this create a vulnerability that I don't want?

I haven't figured out how to get the NVR to email me when alerts have been tripped. That might be a suitable alternative to the DMSS app push notifications.
 
The DMSS app alerts are spotty and unreliable.

P2P send all of your video through a 3rd party server run by Dahua I believe. There are more knowledgeable folks about networking that will give u different opinions on its security.

Email is easy. Go to the email tab on your NVR, set it up with your email, then on each camera using IVS rules to detect motion, check the box that says email.
 
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P2P opens your system up to being hacked and being used for DDoS attacks as all your data is passing off to third parties, and in many instances it has been found that these cameras and NVRs are vulnerable and insecure and end up passing your login credentials unencrypted - kinda ironic isn't it that security cameras are not secure from hacking. Nobody cares about your video feeds, they are using the P2P as a way into your internet and IP address to send out attacks.

Port Forwarding is another option to be avoided as well.

When is Port Forwarding Safe? What devices/programs/apps or Never?

So we get quite a few posts every month about someone thinking they have been hacked, or someone not understanding the vulnerabilities with allowing their cameras on the internet. I searched here and couldn't find that "one thread" that we could point people to or have them find in a search, so...
ipcamtalk.com ipcamtalk.com
 
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VPN Primer

VPN Primer for Noobs

The internet is a force of nature; no video surveillance system made was designed to be exposed to those forces.. NEVER FORWARD PORTS to your NVR or Cameras, doing such things not only exposes you to severe security problems, but everyone else on the internet too.. Hackers dont want your video...
ipcamtalk.com ipcamtalk.com
 
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bigredfish said:
The DMSS app alerts are spotty and unreliable.

P2P send all of your video through a 3rd party server run by Dahua I believe. There are more knowledgeable folks about networking that will give u different opinions on its security.

Email is easy. Go to the email tab on your NVR, set it up with your email, then on each camera using IVS rules to detect motion, check the box that says email.
Click to expand...

While I suppose it depends on your email provider, I find I get emails almost as quick as you would a direct app alert. Usually within 10-15 seconds, with a snapshot.
11F64BCC-8734-4401-A4E5-362DEA281797.png
 
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That is excellent. Like most things, I'm unsure how to fill in some of these fields.

1638995780784.png

Here is the what the manual says, doesn't help me much.

1638995595226.png

SMTP Server: What would my SMTP server be? Who is the sender's email account? If I use Gmail for my personal email, would it be that?
Port: No idea what I'd set this to.
Username and Password: Enter my personal Gmail email address and password? Is it safe to enter this information here on my NVR?
Sender: Would this also be my Gmail address? Basically sending myself an email?
Receiver: That's obviously my Gmail email address, I think.
 
Kevin Doe said:
That is excellent. Like most things, I'm unsure how to fill in some of these fields.

View attachment 111298

Here is the what the manual says, doesn't help me much.

View attachment 111297

SMTP Server: What would my SMTP server be? Who is the sender's email account? If I use Gmail for my personal email, would it be that?
Port: No idea what I'd set this to.
Username and Password: Enter my personal Gmail email address and password? Is it safe to enter this information here on my NVR?
Sender: Would this also be my Gmail address? Basically sending myself an email?
Receiver: That's obviously my Gmail email address, I think.
Click to expand...

I don’t use gmail but yes you are the sender and receiver.
See this thread

Can't send email from NVR NR32P8-8 V4.30.005/210413

Hi...new here...but have learned a lot from reading and implementing an older WINIC NR32P8-8 with this forum's help... This summer i upgraded the older firmware from a 3.x version to 4.30.005/210413...following the advice to upgrade in steps... Some quirks, but more stable... Email setup is a...
ipcamtalk.com ipcamtalk.com
 
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