Hikvision - Noise/Quality Problem - $50 Reward!

[aster1x]

The 12V power supply fed through the pig tail and the 48V from the Ethernet PoE cable are not treated the same in the electronics of the camera. Therefore it is possible to have different electronics behaviour when you switch from the 12V to the 48V. The problem is poor supply regulation of the electronic chips in the camera depending on the current drawn from the power supply. To prove you this (I have seen what I am about to describe), if you measure the current drawn from the power supply with an oscilloscope (an instrument not widely available to consumers) you will notice small spikes of current increase of about a few microamps at the frequency of the pixels pulsating . These spikes create a tiny votage drop in the electronics and affect especially the sensor voltage stability. This in turn is interpeted by the sensor digitisation electronics as a light intensity variation and hence you see the pixels pulsating. The effect may be visible either in specific areas of the image starting from the top or the left side of the image OR the whole image. The current drawn from the camera CPU when it creates the keyframe is also increased because the CPU uses more processing power at each key frame creation. If you increase the key frame creation at more than 2x or 4x times the frame rate then you only postopone the appearance of the effect (i.e. decrease the frequency of the pulsating appearing) and our human eye can not perceive it. If you look very carefully you will be able to see it.

Conclusion: The pulsating of pixels is not interference, as many have already correctly mentioned. If it occurs then you should claim a replacement of the camera as being defective. The problem is that if they replace it wth another camera from the same production lot, most probably you will have the same effect because the problem is poor selection of components (usually regulating capacitors in the camera).

 

[Kroegtijgertje]

I got pulsating pixels as well, but I can't change the keyframe since I'm using H.264+ encoding.
I can change the bitrate, but the pulsating pixels will remain.

(view fullscreen)

 

[klasipca]

"Pulsating pixels" - looks like the OP invented a new term for common issue with low grade sensors. It exists on all consumer cams I've seen and has to do mostly with sensor noise and how well software handles the noise.

 

[spixel]

I've found alot of professional installers will tell you what they think you want to hear, either because they don't know if its normal or not, or because it suits them to say it.

 

[spixel]

All you have to do is look at other videos of similar Hikvision IP cameras. They all exhibit the same thing, even though they are likely tested in different parts of the world on different setups/cables.

You seem to have found out the cause is PoE. Obviously the next step is to try new cable, high end cat5e / cat6 with as much shielding as possible. If it's still present then it's still normal, just power the camera via 12v.

I'm someone who's very picky and honestly it wouldn't bother me. It is a minor issue that has no impact on the picture quality.

 

[NoloC]

The 12V power supply fed through the pig tail and the 48V from the Ethernet PoE cable are not treated the same in the electronics of the camera. Therefore it is possible to have different electronics behaviour when you switch from the 12V to the 48V. The problem is poor supply regulation of the electronic chips in the camera depending on the current drawn from the power supply. To prove you this (I have seen what I am about to describe), if you measure the current drawn from the power supply with an oscilloscope (an instrument not widely available to consumers) you will notice small spikes of current increase of about a few microamps at the frequency of the pixels pulsating . These spikes create a tiny votage drop in the electronics and affect especially the sensor voltage stability.

Well one more "opinion" can't hurt so I'll chime in. I think you're on to something there Aster in that the 12vdc and the 48vdc would need to be handled differently as you point out. Maybe someone on here knows what is done? The 48 might go through a dc to dc conversion like an inverter?

One note on your comment, oscilloscopes don't measure current or microamps. They display voltage on the Y-Axis vs time on the X-Axis. Voltage not current. Would you agree?

But it is the best theory yet!

 

[alastairstevenson]

there would be packet loss, not degradation in quality. This is not analog.

Quite right, spot on.

 

[fenderman]

I others like fenderman and klasipca apparently know it all and prefer to turn it into a pissing match.

Its not a pissing match. We are trying to help you avoid wasting money on an electrician. Reading an article online the coming to conclusion when you have no experience with these cameras, is like going to webMD and self diagnosing. You claim to have experience with cameras but dont have a basic understanding on how ip cameras transmit data and what interference would look like or how most common POE actually transmits power. You can run around bitching about ego's chasing your tail, calling electricians and buying line conditioners but it wont help you.

 

[Q™]

Its not a pissing match. We are trying to help you avoid wasting money on an electrician. Reading an article online the coming to conclusion when you have no experience with these cameras, is like going to webMD and self diagnosing...

OMG...you mean I may not have ear cancer!

 

[fenderman]

OMG...you mean I may not have ear cancer!

You may....the a broken clock is correct twice a day...

 

[Q™]

</rof>

 

[klasipca]

Nice one champ! Actually, 2 camera installers have checked the cameras and said it is not normal, but nice try.

I guess I should throw all my cams in the trash as all of them exhibit the same "pulsating pixels" syndrome as what I have seen from the samples. Frankly Huisan is a bit better because it has better sensor.

 

[DaveFL]

Its not a pissing match. We are trying to help you avoid wasting money on an electrician. Reading an article online the coming to conclusion when you have no experience with these cameras, is like going to webMD and self diagnosing. You claim to have experience with cameras but dont have a basic understanding on how ip cameras transmit data and what interference would look like or how most common POE actually transmits power. You can run around bitching about ego's chasing your tail, calling electricians and buying line conditioners but it wont help you.

Again, you ignore the fact that when i plug in power separate from the POE the problem is gone.

 

[fenderman]

Again, you ignore the fact that when i plug in power separate from the POE the problem is gone.

have you tested it on a ups?

 

[klasipca]

Again, you ignore the fact that when i plug in power separate from the POE the problem is gone.

Is there a sample of that? I only see deleted posts

 

[fenderman]

Ive given up on this site and trying to get help here. There are some nice people that have genuinely tried to help, but then there are others like Klasipca who are just hobbyist talking out of their asses and trying to be smart when they clearly aren't. I will try a UPS but need to wait until it arrives on Tuesday.

Yes, we are the hobbyists. You are the pro with the foscam. We stand corrected. If you cant take advice dont ask for it. If I had a nickel for every novice who blamed equipment on what was ultimately user error...
As was pointed out earlier, you dont have a basic understanding of how POE works and now you are an expert and everyone else is a novice.

 

[DaveFL]

Yes, we are the hobbyists. You are the pro with the foscam. We stand corrected. If you cant take advice dont ask for it. If I had a nickel for every novice who blamed equipment on what was ultimately user error...
As was pointed out earlier, you dont have a basic understanding of how POE works and now you are an expert and everyone else is a novice.

I found that not running power thru the POE resolves the problem totally. This makes me a PRO? or is it the fact that I called you out for your EGO?

 

[klasipca]

Ive given up on this site and trying to get help here. There are some nice people that have genuinely tried to help, but then there are others like Klasipca who are just hobbyist talking out of their asses and trying to be smart when they clearly aren't. I will try a UPS but need to wait until it arrives on Tuesday.

lol... what? Didn't realize that my comment about you inventing a new term "pulsating pixel" somehow offended you. I actually googled for it beforehand and got no results other then this thread.

 

[Q™]

Delete

Frankly Dave, as I read it (1) most everyone who has posted to this topic is trying to help you and (2) you seem a bit hostile at times. Why did you delete all of your posts? In a forum such as this topics need to be left in place and complete because every post adds to build the entire topic "case" and -- in the future -- all of the topic posts in sum may help others understand the problems which they are trying to resolve. As a result, and in my opinion, deleting posts is a selfish act. This is unique forum Dave, where the community polices itself...no banning...very little moderation action...so you are certainly entitled to behave any manner you choose...but for a guest who has come looking for assistance I find the manner in which you have conducted yourself to be a tad confusing.

 

[fenderman]

I found that not running power thru the POE resolves the problem totally. This makes me a PRO? or is it the fact that I called you out for your EGO?

Maybe a lesson is sarcasm is in order....
You have yet to post a video of the issue that you claim is occurring regularly. Again, its very common for inexperienced users to make incorrect assumptions about why they are seeing certain effects. If that offends you too bad. Go on your wild goose chase. At this point I hope you chase your tail looking for the solution.