A visit from Texas

Dec 13, 2021
8
12
Houston
Hi everyone, just joined and looking for some advice.

I am a data science professional but am not super savvy with networking, etc.

Coming away from the whole Ring / Nest Big Data surveillance and looking for some answers :)

It will be nice meeting you all and I was linked here by a Reddit forum.

Currently installed but ready to return a pair of Reolink - ShenZhen provided cameras.
 
Welcome!

Good thing you found this site while you could still return the Reolink.

Please post your experiences and some pictures/video of their quality (or lack thereof) in this thread:

 
I found the experience fine for installation and the website is extremely well put together, some may even say misleading.

I installed the cameras thinking things were fine but once I got them in and downloaded the software, I found out the ShenZhen Reolink exe.....

Well to say the least, I have lived in China for previous years and am not a fan and do not in fact want their software installed on my pc or phone.

That is why I am here looking for some suggestions. I would like many of the functions that Reolink can provide but without the PRC spyware.
 
If you look at the posts in that thread, you will see that the images and ability to IDENTIFY are seriously lacking in those cams.

The issue you will have is unless you want to pay an extreme premium for inferior product, the best benefit-to-cost ratio cameras are going to be from China.

Now what most of us have done here is prevent the cameras from talking to the Internet and certainly do not use any cloud, P2P, or other camera provided app to view our cams.
 
:welcome:

You'll find most of us here use Dahua or Hikvision cameras with either an NVR to match the brand or use Blue Iris as a VMS. In all cases the cameras are isolated from the internet using various methods from air gap, fire walls, VLANs, VPN, second NIC in the VMS or any combination of these. The idea being to keep the cameras from "phoning home". In fact that's a standard practice no matter who made the cameras or country of origin. It's a sad fact that security cameras are not very secure at all and can be easily exploited if exposed to the internet.

Exactly what features are you looking for. Mid range cameras from Dahua and Hik have basic AI and Blue Iris has integration with DeepStack AI and LPR.
 
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Thank you for the reply. So mostly for features I just want to be alerted for movement, night vision and/or a flood light and an ability to two way talk, most for front of house(nice to have but not necessary). A two way talk in the house would be fine too.

the setup would be

1 in house camera for watching the cats when not home and security

1 front door camera to see what’s going on in the front

1 back door

I neglected to say I also gave a synology setup so I may be able to just use that for video recording but not sure if I can get the benefit of the Reolink or any cameras without their PRC software.

I was looking into arlo, I know it’s cloud based but for me it was the expense per money since I already have something like an nvr with the synology and batteries! That’s just problems waiting to happen.
 
Generally Arlo is regarded with the same "respect" as Reolink here. Granted, we're a bunch of people that want real coverage from a surveillance system. Note I say "surveillance" not a security system. Alarm systems are security systems. Consumer grade cameras only come with wide angle lenses, 2.8mm typically, which makes getting an ID a problem at distances greater than 10 to 15 feet, day or night. They also play games with gain, exposure (shutter speed) and other parameters of the camera to get a "good" night time picture. Problem is when motion happens it's a blurry mess. The cameras I listed allow full control of all parameters needed to produce crisp, clear, blur free video both day and night.

Most of the cameras used do not offer two way audio. It can be added using various "tricks". Some bullet cameras, the 5442 bullet for example, have an audio in and audio out. A mic, a small amplifier and a speaker will make it have two way audio.

Floodlight cameras aren't what they're cracked up to be. When the floodlight turns on it momentarily blinds the camera due to the sudden change n overall scene lighting. Lowlight capable cameras, cameras with IR capability (which is the majority of them) or LED floodlights that are always on at night are much, much, better solutions.

The best way to proceed is to buy a varifocal camera, set it up on a test rig and experiment with proposed locations using the wed GUI of the camera. That way you'll get a feel for what I'm trying to stress here. As with everything you get what you pay for. Pay once, cry once, but get a good result the first time.
 
It seems as though this dahua brand is quite big on this forum but isn’t this just another Chinese camera just like Reolink? I’m only asking since the Reolink cameras have everything I want with the exception of the PRC software. I’m again wondering if I can just use the synology nvr to take of Reolink a features without using their software.
 
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Yes, we block them too along with Hikvision and the rest of them. But they work much better than the Reolink. The latter likely doesn't have everything you want in various way, you just don't know it yet.

Yes, you can use the Synology to record from most. Still need to secure the cams and the network from as best you can.
 
Well I meant the cameras have what I want because the ones that are installed have a light in them and two way talk for outside and the inside camera has the two way talk and night vision. They both do motion it’s just that PRC software
 
When you talk about securing them, my premise is connecting the cameras to a switch which which would give them access to the network so I’m not sure how to secure on the setup I am proposing. Damn this is hard
 
When you talk about securing them, my premise is connecting the cameras to a switch which which would give them access to the network so I’m not sure how to secure on the setup I am proposing. Damn this is hard
..

I neglected to say I also gave a synology setup so I may be able to just use that for video recording but not sure if I can get the benefit of the Reolink or any cameras without their PRC software.

I was looking into arlo, I know it’s cloud based but for me it was the expense per money since I already have something like an nvr with the synology and batteries! That’s just problems waiting to happen.

Hi @right_meow78

I hope our experiences and shared knowledge will help you avoid the longer journey many of us have taken.

I also tried to go the easy route .. ended buying a lot of "cheap" products which failed to do the job, and some premium products ( like the Arlo ) which also failed to do the job and after awhile I ended up here and learned a lot, and taking a long time to learn a lot.

A number of us have condensed that learning curve down, and we hope you can learn quicker if you are willing to with the cliff notes here, with the various threads, with various welcome notes from @SouthernYankee @wittaj @sebastiantombs

Bottom line: Most do not know what they do not know, and believe what they have seen on TV and Movies to be closer to the fact with regards to security cameras than what is actually the case.

You get to decide, to repeat our learning process which will take longer and cost more if you want to start with Alro / Ring / Nest / Reolink / some random wifi cloud camera / some random cheap wifi kit vs a more costly IP PoE cat5e/6 wired system setup.

The best place imho to start is picking up one decent 4mp 1/1.8" sensor varifocal Dahua camera and a small PoE switch and start to learn ( if you need low light performance ) .. while you may buy cheaper cameras, such a camera will be worth keeping and imho is a good buy right now to at least cover your most critical FOV ..

With regards to Reolink .. it performs very poorly in low light and there are other issues with it, so best to avoid it imho if you really need quality low light performance.
 
Generally what you want to try to do is segregate the cams from the rest of your network and to limit incoming/outgoing access to/from them to the extent that you can. That can be done in various ways to varying levels. You don't have to start all the way there necessarily but you can do some basic things and should try to get there as best you can.

It's not just cams, it's lots of IOT-type things. But cams are common and don't have a real great track record as far as security goes. They're not just cams and it's not just someone potentially watching your video. Effectively what you're doing is dropping a little *nix black box with lots of networking and other capabilities and vulnerabilities inside of your network and then often people open them up to the outside world in various ways to have easy remote access.
 
My standard welcome to the forum message.

Read Study Plan before spending money
Cameras are for surveillance to get information for after the fact.

Please read the IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes and other items in the IP Cam Talk Wiki. (read on a real computer, not a phone). The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.


Quick start
1) If you do not have a wired monitored alarm system, get that first
2) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras if you need good low light cameras.
3) Start with a good variable focus camera, so you test for the correct lens,lighting, camera placement.
4) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
5) Do not use WIFI cameras.
6) Do not use cloud storage
7) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
8) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
9) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
10) Do not use reolink, ring, nest, Arlo, Vivint cameras (they are junk), no cloud cameras
11) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
12) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
13) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
14) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 7ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
15) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
16) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator
17) POE list PoE Switch Suggestion List
18) Camera Sensor size, bigger is general better Sensor Size Chart
19) Camera lens size the bigger number the more range the less FOV. . Which Security Camera Lens Size Should I Buy?
20) verify your camera placement, have a friend wearing a hoodie, ball cap and sunglasses looking down approach the house, can you identify them at night ?
21) DO NOT UPGRADE your NVR or camera unless you absolutely have a problem that needs to be fixed and known what you are doing, if you do you will turn it into a brick !!
 
Saying Dahua is just another Chinese brand is like saying a Yugo is just like any other foreign car.

If you had never owned a car how would you go about finding out enough to be able to buy one that meets your needs, real needs? Watch YouTube videos from some anonymous source? Of course not. You'd ask people with experience, that have "been there and done that" with cars so you avoid making the mistakes of believing advertising hype.

Most here have "been there and done that". I recycled my one, and only, Reolink that I bought three years ago in the county recycling center. It still worked but I wouldn't foist that crap on my worst enemy. I'm not rich, either, each camera I purchase has to be carefully planned for available funds. As a result I do a lot of reading and listening to the advice given here.

Please take the time to read the WiKi and the time to read the thread on deconstructing Reolink. The links are hot links, just point, click and read. It will save you time, trouble, frustration and money in the end.

Oh yes, in terms of two way audio, do you plan on watching 24/7 to be able to take advantage of that? Sure, the app will give you a notification but think about how much time it takes for the camera to communicate with a cloud service on the other side of other world. Add in the time it takes the cloud service to process the request from your camera. Add the time it take to send that message to your cell phone. Throw in the time you spend looking for your cell phone to see what that annoying notification is from. You open the app and respond. Throw in all that time yet again to get a message back to the tiny, crappy, speaker in your camera and the audio sounds like a subway announcer in NYC. Does it still sound like nirvana to have two way audio?
 
Saying Dahua is just another Chinese brand is like saying a Yugo is just like any other foreign car.

If you had never owned a car how would you go about finding out enough to be able to buy one that meets your needs, real needs? Watch YouTube videos from some anonymous source? Of course not. You'd ask people with experience, that have "been there and done that" with cars so you avoid making the mistakes of believing advertising hype.

Most here have "been there and done that". I recycled my one, and only, Reolink that I bought three years ago in the county recycling center. It still worked but I wouldn't foist that crap on my worst enemy. I'm not rich, either, each camera I purchase has to be carefully planned for available funds. As a result I do a lot of reading and listening to the advice given here.

Please take the time to read the WiKi and the time to read the thread on deconstructing Reolink. The links are hot links, just point, click and read. It will save you time, trouble, frustration and money in the end.

Oh yes, in terms of two way audio, do you plan on watching 24/7 to be able to take advantage of that? Sure, the app will give you a notification but think about how much time it takes for the camera to communicate with a cloud service on the other side of other world. Add in the time it takes the cloud service to process the request from your camera. Add the time it take to send that message to your cell phone. Throw in the time you spend looking for your cell phone to see what that annoying notification is from. You open the app and respond. Throw in all that time yet again to get a message back to the tiny, crappy, speaker in your camera and the audio sounds like a subway announcer in NYC. Does it still sound like nirvana to have two way audio?

No I get the generalization and it wasnt meant the way it probably came out. I have read posts within this website referring to the chips (back door) and I know my issue is the GUI so that is where I was coming from. The Dahua camera the way I see it is not really any different then Reolink if they are both from Chinese manufactures at least from that standpoint. As I said above, the indoor camera I have has two way talk, night vision which are fine for me. The outdoor cameras have a built in "flood light like" function in it and two way talk. I am not talking myself into them just seeing where the comparison really is with Reolink and Dahua. I am still trying to go consumer grade from reading more of the boards here as I see someone wrote, its more about watching the after it happened rather then the during the event and not being altered because the kitties are moving around the house rather then being alerted to bad guys. I tried using my Synology as the interface and it works but detection seems to be an issue as does two way talking. You all have been super helpful so far just wanting to throw that nugget of goodness out there :)