Best Buy, Home Depot and Lowes Drop Dahua Lorex Oct 25, 2021 - IPVM and TechCrunch reports

[David L]

The fact of the matter is probably every company is involved with something you personally don't like.

Whether it be Nike, Amazon, Google, Apple, Walmart, etc., they are participate in various forms of deplorable working conditions in factories overseas paying them next to nothing. And that doesn't even touch on the wokeness aspect and other agendas many follow.

The only way to avoid it is to grow your own food and make your own clothing and furniture and build your house and don't drive a car and do not buy anything from anywhere.

Kinda hard to do. So do we boycott all or none? If we boycott only a few, which ones and why those and not another? Do I boycott Nike but not Dahua? Someone else may boycott Dahua but not Nike.

So where you draw the line is your personal choice.

I would say many if not most who oppose other companies for their practices have some hidden agenda which normally will add up to profit in some way for them. Also, if stockholders are involved it is rare they would give up profit to stand for a cause unless it is for the short term with long term future profits in mind.

 

[fenderman]

You've staked out a quite extreme position that even if we report negatively on PRC companies it "supports the PRC", like when we reported on Dahua's most recent critical vulnerabilities Dahua New Critical Vulnerabilities 2021 I leave it to each person to judge on whether that makes sense to them.



I like to discuss and debate these topics here, on IPVM, on LinkedIn, etc. I learn from the exchanges and evaluate how to respond to good and bad arguments. I've shared my thoughts on this and if anyone has other specific questions or criticisms, I am happy to review and respond.

Another lie. Why is it that you cant stop lying John? You simply cannot be trusted. I never said anything remotely close to "even if we report negatively on PRC companies it "supports the PRC"" I said that even a poor REVIEW of a product, depending on the nature of the review, the price of the product and its weak points, encourages the purchase of said product. If your subscribers who pay $200+ to read your reviews were not interested in purchasing dahua you would never review them.
Bottom line is, every one of your responses deliberately distorted what I have said. You are a lying piece of shit.

You directly support the PRC by reviewing products made in the PRC. Put your money where your big mouth is. You wont because its always about your bottom line. You have been caught with your pants down, feigning distain for the PRC in a failed attempt at altruism.

You can start by not hosting your site on amazon. Recent Reports and News — Horizon Index

 

[Zook]

I need to make a plan, I will go to US-Mexico border as a refugee, Joe said will pay big money for those people, and bring the money to Thailand and live there, everything is cheap there.

I will meet you in Mexico Andy. You can pose as my son. We will get "split up" once we cross the border and have joe biden pay us $450,000 each for the injustices we endured. We will invest that money into ipcamtalk where we will pull all of the brilliant people in the forums to create our own security equipment and manufacture it all in the US. You will of course be our senior sales engineer which we will pay $200,000 a year for your unbeatable work ethics and superior support.

Still loving the NVR I received from you this weekend. You are top-notch sir!

 

[Mark_M]

ANYONE should use proper security to protect his personal data and privacy. Which means not connecting any device directly to the internet i.e. port forwarding. Also cloud services should be avoided at anytime. Not only for security reasons (you lose any control) also because the US gov have access to everything easy which is stored in the cloud.

most users are not very technical and most highly value remote access to their surveillance systems, ergo one way or the other they will be connected to the Internet.

Since the Number One Rule HERE in setting up ANY Camera is to Block ANY and ALL Internet Access,.
NEVER ALLOW INTERNET ACCESS TO ANY CAMERA, PERIOD!!!

My thoughts immediately about the ban for consumer aimed cameras.
I support the big box stores for removing these cameras from shelves, For the fact that consumers have no clue how to secure their systems safely.

Dahua/Hik are still great products and I will continue to use them. That said, I love my Axis cameras too.
I will still recommend the cameras.


Now I want to see Shenzhen Reo-Link Co Ltd, banned too.

 

[user8963]

bigger problem to IPVM and it’s customer base,

The only loosers are maybe the installers and pages like IPVM. Problem for them is to find alternatives and uninformed sheeps who pay the big + on axis cameras. They will get their offer, say no thanks and buy reolink on amazon.
I dont even get why IPVM is talking about ring,nest,arlo (...). Those are cameras which are sold directly to the customer on amazon. You find many reviews of them everywhere. Who needs to pay IPVM membership for it? I do not understand whats their aim. Starting reviewing cameras and offer tools for installers, now they shift left and try to find any information which show how bad (some) china products are.

I understand that no one can avoid china products and everything is build there.. but i also do not understand why i should care about human rights in china. We all should care more about human rights in our countries. After all the virus bullshit i dont see any differences. Governments worldwide do what they want .. there are no rights. You have to pay taxes and shut up.

I support the big box stores for removing these cameras from shelves, For the fact that consumers have no clue how to secure their systems safely.

Like @wittaj wrote here several times. The problem are not the cameras. Problem are the installers and consumers.
The ban in US started with government/authorities related offices.
The first question I had...

Lets take a school.. why the hell is the system unsecure ? How can someone even connect to the school nvr/cams ?
So its obvious that they connect it to the internet. The main question is WHY?
Why need a school nvr be connected to the internet? Do the teachers/janitor watch children and jerk off to them they like most?


Just take a look what you find on the internet:


Source:

US towns are buying Chinese surveillance tech tied to Uighur abuses | TechCrunch

Hikvision and Dahua are accused of supplying Beijing with technology it uses to surveil ethnic groups.

techcrunch.com

If you break the numbers down..
The 2cd2543g0-is is 144USD from bhphoto (authorized seller) ... = 6x 144 = 864 USD
8TB harddrives (nvr cannot hold 16TB single) is around 250 ... = 2x 250 = 500USD
16 port poe hik nvr ... DS-7616NI-I2 from bhphoto (authorized seller) = 500USD

Raw materials for the camera system: 1864 USD in reality... lets say 2000USD.
They DOUBLE the price ... they might get better prices as bhphoto sell price ... WTF
They also charge double the price for some cheap cables and "miscellaneous"

Then nearly 3000USD for labor/programming? What does this mean? Pull SIX cables in 4 hours? Plug the cameras into the NVR and give it a name ? Turn on motion detection?... WTF AGAIN


And then the most problematic part...
"able to view cameras from smart devices" ....

WHY does an authority building in california needs this? Is that even legal ? Is there any privacy protection in the US?
So someone is able to view workers and customers in that building from home... from their smartphone??

Glad i am living in europe... this shit is complete illegal here for a good reason.

And then good guy John comes... "i have no problem if someone jerk off to my children, no problem connecting everything to the internet" ... OK


edit:
Now its clear what is going on with the double/triple pricing







Not sure if Morgan Clayton heard about Uyghur... but maybe John should contact him and tell him how bad he is.

 

[David L]

I dont even get why IPVM is talking about ring,nest,arlo (...). Those are cameras which are sold directly to the customer on amazon. You find many reviews of them everywhere. Who needs to pay IPVM membership for it? I do not understand whats their aim. Starting reviewing cameras and offer tools for installers, now they shift left and try to find any information which show how bad (some) china products are.

Something smells fishy here, I agree, why is IPVM talking about/reviewing/comparing the Silicon Valley Cams? First thing we tell Noobs here is to avoid those products. So what is the aim? Side money?

Speaking of offering Tools, love this Forum for all the Tools offered. The Cliff Notes, Installers do not need to go anyplace else but here.

Funny but one of the main reasons Ring got hacked was due to consumers not securing their Router's passwords. I found my daughter years back had her router still with a default password, sad part is she worked partially in her company's IT dept. and should know better. I have seen people text their credit card #s/info, send their social security #s via email, etc. Some people just don't think or care about security, that will Never change. As long as you have those people in the world, Hacker/Scammers will take advantage of them. Our trusting Elderly are getting scammed everyday with all these scamming robocalls...Talk about abusing people Going after the Elderly (their life savings), to me, is on the same level as child abuse...

Why would anyone be surprised at backdoors in Chinese products, do they not know the definition of Communism??? Besides we have NSA here, for Protection or Control?

Always remember when you point your finger at someone there are three pointing back at you.

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

Maybe we set up a new topic for how to protect our system

 

[Arjun]

Exploits are intentionally made so that people can Wake Up and not take any system for granted!

 

[wittaj]

The only loosers are maybe the installers and pages like IPVM. Problem for them is to find alternatives and uninformed sheeps who pay the big + on axis cameras. They will get their offer, say no thanks and buy reolink on amazon.
I dont even get why IPVM is talking about ring,nest,arlo (...). Those are cameras which are sold directly to the customer on amazon. You find many reviews of them everywhere. Who needs to pay IPVM membership for it? I do not understand whats their aim. Starting reviewing cameras and offer tools for installers, now they shift left and try to find any information which show how bad (some) china products are.

The said thing is we have seen people come here AFTER they paid a "professional" installer big money to install one of these consumer grade cameras/systems the installer bought at Costco...

Heck, we had a new poster start a thread yesterday saying they just started a professional installer company and was looking for advice on equipment/settings/how to charge for the service, etc. I believe folks call these type trunk slammers....

Just because you pay for a service doesn't mean the person is a professional or competent...

 

[Ssayer]

We also had a user here saying that the installer was spying on his daughter in her room with the system that the guy put in. Take nothing for granted...

 

[wittaj]

I mean my neighbor got a sweet deal from a professional installer (sarcasm in case you can't tell LOL)

They were only charged $5,000 to get this system installed and the app working on their iphone....

https://www.costco.com/swann-pro-enforcer-4k-ultra-hd-indooroutdoor-wired-security-camera-system%2c-8-channel-nvr-2tb-hdd%2c-4-bullet-%2526-4-dome-cameras-w-two-way-audio-%2526-siren.product.100803706.html

They said is was a great deal because it was leading edge 4K and works with Alexa....

And wait, it gets better...not their installer, but look at the review...



As I said, just because you are paying for a service doesn't mean they are a professional or competent...

 

[IAmATeaf]

I think in the grand scheme of things most installers will take the easy route. When I had an installer just running the cables he did precisely this, told him to rerun the cabling to my liking which he did.

Not siding with anybody but can you imagine the headaches that setting up a VPN would cause for an installer, imagine telling the home owner they need to replace their router or other bits of kit to get a VPN working!

 

[user8963]

They said is was a great deal because it was leading edge 4K and works with Alexa....

You forgot the "enforcer" feature.. "Red & Blue Flashing Lights"

Some installers will charge you extra for enable this feature in the webinterface for sure...

I installed one swann system in my life ... i thought it would be nice to have PIR to get better detection ...
Swann PIR is a complete LIE. You cannot use PIR only ... you can just use PIR+MD ... so you get all the false alarms anyway

Not only this... the cameras are 100% not compatible with anything. Only some (!) swann NVRs work with them.

 

[wittaj]

Yep, and then when their system couldn't do squat and their installer told them he only hangs them up LOL, they had me look at it.

I told them they should have listened to me when they asked my advice before they bought. Not much could be done to improve the system.

 

[cctv-dave]

You can ignore Dahua's human rights abuses and wave off their ongoing critical vulnerabilities, but I am not.

I note you listed Bosch.
So you're ok about their human rights abuses in WW2 under the Nazi's or has enough time past which makes it ok ?

Or FLIR who have repeatedly been found guilty of breaking ITAR rules and selling to your defacto enemies.

Or your own article about AXIS ? Axis Exports To China Police Criticized By Amnesty International but are prepared to list them as an alternative to Hikvision / Dahua who you accuse of human rights abuses ?


IPVM does quite well, the subscription is certainly enough $$ but it means two things.
1) It's an echo chamber
2) You control the narrative

Now the thing that IPVM does well is go after the trends. And the current trend is bashing the Chinese.
If I had access to the articles (Im not paying) I could show you all the other trends you've followed over the years bashing different people - a common theme is your aggressive writing style.

One things stands out and that is your enjoyment of harassing various manufacturers in the industry and the whooping hollering echo chamber follows you down that path. its' quite unprofessional but you've chosen to do it over the years, but it does attract a certain type of customer.
I will say that with the China bashing your editorial skills appear to have matured somewhat and congrats, its' getting your company global attention.
But as a site which the industry pays attention to, I'd suggest you dont get high on your own supply. Within manufacturing you are seen as a bit of a sideshow attraction not the global leader you self promote to be.

The problem here is you've latched on to the endemic racism which exists in a lot of your customer base and are promoting the yellow peril for your own advantage.
What you fail to understand is that your country has put China firmly on the map through their massive investment and China is the leader of technology right now especially in cctv.
You may or may not really ethically believe in the uyghur cause but the rest of the world - governments, cctv, law enforcement, military is watching the technology and looking forward to making a safer society for people like you and the rest of the US suffering your own internal holocaust from gun crime and racial inequality.

But hey, bash the chinese some more, it gets good ratings and that's what IPVM is all about.

 

[Mark_M]

One things stands out and that is your enjoyment of harassing various manufacturers in the industry and the whooping hollering echo chamber follows you down that path. its' quite unprofessional but you've chosen to do it over the years, but it does attract a certain type of customer.
I will say that with the China bashing your editorial skills appear to have matured somewhat and congrats, its' getting your company global attention.
But as a site which the industry pays attention to, I'd suggest you dont get high on your own supply. Within manufacturing you are seen as a bit of a sideshow attraction not the global leader you self promote to be.

The problem here is you've latched on to the endemic racism which exists in a lot of your customer base and are promoting the yellow peril for your own advantage.
What you fail to understand is that your country has put China firmly on the map through their massive investment and China is the leader of technology right now especially in cctv.
You may or may not really ethically believe in the uyghur cause but the rest of the world - governments, cctv, law enforcement, military is watching the technology and looking forward to making a safer society for people like you and the rest of the US suffering your own internal holocaust from gun crime and racial inequality.

But hey, bash the chinese some more, it gets good ratings and that's what IPVM is all about.

++++++++++1

Absolutely what I have noticed.

 

[benwise90]

So are companies going to drop Nike and other clothing lines for human rights issues? Is LeBron going to give up his millions in endorsement deals because the gear he is hawking is made by humans living in worse conditions than the very people here he says are being wronged...

@john-ipvm - how about instead of getting these cameras banned, why not educate on what the real issue is and that is keep cameras isolated from the internet? This rabbit hole will only get bigger and where do you draw the line. Some component of almost anything being produced has something from China in it.

That ban is crazy government thinking they are eliminating the potential of hacking by the Chinese government without addressing the real issue.

Hacking vulnerabilities are the same regardless of who makes the cameras...or any IoT for that matter...and that is why most of us here isolate our cameras from the internet...it's just irony that they are surveillance cameras...it flows better saying security cameras are not very secure but many here do not consider them security cameras as they are for surveillance!

And our wonderful government decided to ban Hikvision and Dahua from government installations due to being partly owned by the Chinese government and the potential to be hacked...yet fail to recognize the real problem are the cameras can be breached and then they get exploited with other manufacturer cameras because they failed to isolate them from the internet. End result is people/governments that shouldn't see the camera feeds are now seeing them...

Yep, instead of our government forbidding public agencies from using Chinese brand cameras like Dahua and Hikvision because they could be used to be spied on by the Chinese government, they should have been looking at what the real issue is, and it is this issue that will be same regardless of who makes a camera. You need to get the cameras off the internet period.

We have already seen countless examples where governments facilities that installed expensive AXIS cameras that are built in the US were hacked into...

you keep mentioning 'can be hacked'

chinese govt owns all businesses in china. the verified backdoors in our routers? backdoors in cameras? chinese govt owns and uses all of that data. its theirs. they own the companies that own our data. so they dont need to be hacked. they come pre-hacked.

 

[JDreaming]

I mean my neighbor got a sweet deal from a professional installer (sarcasm in case you can't tell LOL)

They were only charged $5,000 to get this system installed and the app working on their iphone....

https://www.costco.com/swann-pro-enforcer-4k-ultra-hd-indooroutdoor-wired-security-camera-system%2c-8-channel-nvr-2tb-hdd%2c-4-bullet-%2526-4-dome-cameras-w-two-way-audio-%2526-siren.product.100803706.html

They said is was a great deal because it was leading edge 4K and works with Alexa....

And wait, it gets better...not their installer, but look at the review...

View attachment 106955

As I said, just because you are paying for a service doesn't mean they are a professional or competent...

Please take my money! This is the perfect system I'm looking for all along.

 

[user8963]

i laughed more than i should

 

[NDAA]

No one is asking you to subscribe to IPVM and I regularly make subscriber-only test reports available to IPCamTalk members.

1
I'd like to read the article but the link requires a business email account. Did you post this article somewhere? Thanks