Best Buy, Home Depot and Lowes Drop Dahua Lorex Oct 25, 2021 - IPVM and TechCrunch reports

[Ssayer]

Haha, this one is for you, @john-ipvm:

 

[fenderman]

When we publish negative test reports about Dahua and Hikvision, in your thought process, do we directly support the PRC? For example, Dahua Seatbelt And Phone Analytics Tested I don't think you can reasonably argue that criticizing PRC-made products supports the PRC?

So what you are getting at is if we say something positive about PRC products from our testing that supports the PRC? Yes.

My point is we test things fairly and accurately (it's the same for PRC Dahua as USA Verkada, even though we are critical about the ethics of both). You might as well make the same argument that the NY Times supports the PRC if it publishes something positive about the PRC. Axis, Dahua, Hikvision, Verkada, etc., these are all important companies in the market and we fairly and accurately report on that.

I do want the public to understand how we approach this and am happy to address concerns but I have zero fear or concern about Fenderman yelling at me.

I was hoping this is where you would go. Even a negative review supports the PRC. For example, if an installer does not care about the seatbelt analytics but the rest of the test results are ok they will buy it. Even if a dahua/hik cam rates low in the ratings based in its price they will buy it if you dont rate it horribly. This is what is known as VALUE, a ratio of cost to performance. My point is that you test to so that your subscribers who pay a hefty fee, get what they want, a review of hik and dahua because they buy and install hik and dahua.
You are confusing me calling out your bullshit with yelling. You are certainly concerned though because you keep coming back to respond further perpetuating you lies. Its all good. I take immense pleasure in the fact that my forum educates home and small business users on how to build a better, way cheaper and more reliable systems than going with any one of your subscribers many of whom dont know a WAN from a LAN.

 

[john-ipvm]

Even a negative review supports the PRC

You've staked out a quite extreme position that even if we report negatively on PRC companies it "supports the PRC", like when we reported on Dahua's most recent critical vulnerabilities Dahua New Critical Vulnerabilities 2021 I leave it to each person to judge on whether that makes sense to them.

You are certainly concerned

I like to discuss and debate these topics here, on IPVM, on LinkedIn, etc. I learn from the exchanges and evaluate how to respond to good and bad arguments. I've shared my thoughts on this and if anyone has other specific questions or criticisms, I am happy to review and respond.

 

[Teken]

When we publish negative test reports about Dahua and Hikvision, in your thought process, do we directly support the PRC? For example, Dahua Seatbelt And Phone Analytics Tested I don't think you can reasonably argue that criticizing PRC-made products supports the PRC?

So what you are getting at is if we say something positive about PRC products from our testing that supports the PRC? Yes.

My point is we test things fairly and accurately (it's the same for PRC Dahua as USA Verkada, even though we are critical about the ethics of both). You might as well make the same argument that the NY Times supports the PRC if it publishes something positive about the PRC. Axis, Dahua, Hikvision, Verkada, etc., these are all important companies in the market and we fairly and accurately report on that.

I do want the public to understand how we approach this and am happy to address concerns but I have zero fear or concern about Fenderman yelling at me.

That free information you touted about how many days ago will be forth coming - when???

 

[john-ipvm]

That free information you touted about how many days ago will be forth coming - when???

I never touted "free information", below is exactly what I said:

We did a study and found 40+ manufacturer alternatives - 40+ Alternatives to Dahua & Hikvision For Video Surveillance Camera Manufacturing

All of the companies are clearly displayed in the public image, which I have copied below for your convenience so you can see who those companies are:

 

[TVille]

"There's no such thing as bad publicity."

Allegedly: P. T. Barnum

 

[sebastiantombs]

John, how you can even attempt to portray Ring, Arlo, Nest, et al with Hikvision or Dahua is very telling. If they're on your list of recomendations to your subscribers I have to question exactly what kind of service your subscribers and you are actually supplying.

Exactly where do you think those products are actually made, here in the US? In fact I'm willing to bet that almost every camera, if not every camera, manufacturer on your list is using major assemblies and/or components produced in the PRC. Quit being such a virtue signaler unless you're going to be totally honest about every aspect of your "virtue".

As far as your report, if you had just posted that graphic and not supplied a link to a subscription site that would have been fine. The link leads one to believe one will find the mentioned document, not a link to subscribe and pay a fee for the information.

While I appreciate the information you bring here, things like this damage your credibility severely.

 

[Teken]

I don't think matching the price is possible. However, quality certainly is plus greater security and less dependence on the PRC are valuable to the US and other liberal democracies.

We did a study and found 40+ manufacturer alternatives - 40+ Alternatives to Dahua & Hikvision For Video Surveillance Camera Manufacturing

So a reasonable person would gather when an unsolicited link is provided from another. This normally, means it’s intended to be viewed!!

A reasonable person doesn’t have to make a jump in mental gymnastics to think - said information is freely viewable!

This circle talk you’re giving is painful to read.

You provided a link which everyone including myself expected to view to gain more insight as it relates to the topic at hand. But Instead, you’ve soiled the entire thread by the shear fact your ego won’t allow you to share information you initiated on your own accord?!?

The Fucken hubris . . .

 

[john-ipvm]

how you can even attempt to portray Ring, Arlo, Nest, et al with Hikvision or Dahua is very telling. If they're on your list of recomendations to your subscribers

Of course, Ring, Arlo, and Nest compete with Hikvision and Dahua. Both PRC companies have substantial consumer businesses (respectively Ezviz and Imou) and those compete against Ring, Arlo, Nest, etc. We are not abstractly recommending products. We are putting together the most comprehensive list of what companies have alternatives. These alternatives will compete in different segments.

Quit being such a virtue signaler unless you're going to be totally honest about every aspect of your "virtue".

You can ignore Dahua's human rights abuses and wave off their ongoing critical vulnerabilities, but I am not.

 

[Ssayer]

You can ignore Dahua's human rights abuses and wave off their ongoing critical vulnerabilities, but I am not.

 

[user8963]

To come back to the main question (which you still didnt answer):

@john-ipvm

Please name at least one bullet and one turret which is not made by any china gov near company:

• which have a similiar/same/better sensor/mp-ratio as 5442 - which means 4MP 1/1.8"
• which have same/similiar nightvision abilities
• which have the same/similiar functionality when it comes to IVS/SMD
• which is NOT cloud based
• which costs around max 200USD fixed lens and 300USD varifocal and can be bought in US/europe from local seller

Please name at least one bullet

• which have a similiar/same/better sensor/mp-ratio as 5849T1 - which means 8MP 1/1.2"
• which have same/similiar nightvision abilities
• which have the same/similiar functionality when it comes to IVS/SMD
• which is NOT cloud based
• which costs around max 300USD and can be bought in US/europe from local seller

Please name at least one LPR camera

• which is similiar to the known dahua lpr models
• which have the same/similiar functionality when it comes to IVS/SMD/detection
• which is NOT cloud based
• which costs around max 500USD and can be bought in US/europe from local seller

also:
all cameras must be buyable by anyone. no "installer" models, where you can only buy them if they install it.
any make you name should not have any vulnerabilities history (you said its OK to connect cameras to the interwebz)

should be quick and easy for you. you already tested so many cameras and your article claims 40+ alternatives.

 

[Fruit]

Uyghur "Tribunal"

"Where did you get your data?"
"Someone told us."
"How did you verify it?"
"They told us it was true."
"But can you show us evidence?"
"I don't understand your question."

 

[Teken]

Uyghur "Tribunal"

"Where did you get your data?"
"Someone told us."
"How did you verify it?"
"They told us it was true."
"But can you show us evidence?"
"I don't understand your question."

I watched about four minutes of that video and honestly don’t know. If that was supposed to be a parody vs real?!?

 

[user8963]

I watched about four minutes of that video and honestly don’t know. If that was supposed to be a parody vs real?!?

i wish we have these uyghur camps here in europe... we get only those muslims which want to kill all jews and think women are goats which you can fuck if you want and if you dont need it anymore, you just chop off the head and the problem is gone.
really sad.

 

[IAmATeaf]

Whether you like it or not China will rapidly be making in roads be it via networking hardware, mobile phones, cctv cams or their next great venture which is EV cars.

Most of these large Chinese companies have to get into bed with the government, it’s the way that it is else they won’t get far.

Not advocating that humanitarian issues be ignored but why is nobody up in arms about the crude oil that they buy from Saudi Arabia? I.e. where should the line be drawn?

 

[wittaj]

The fact of the matter is probably every company is involved with something you personally don't like.

Whether it be Nike, Amazon, Google, Apple, Walmart, etc., they are participate in various forms of deplorable working conditions in factories overseas paying them next to nothing. And that doesn't even touch on the wokeness aspect and other agendas many follow.

The only way to avoid it is to grow your own food and make your own clothing and furniture and build your house and don't drive a car and do not buy anything from anywhere.

Kinda hard to do. So do we boycott all or none? If we boycott only a few, which ones and why those and not another? Do I boycott Nike but not Dahua? Someone else may boycott Dahua but not Nike.

So where you draw the line is your personal choice.

 

[Smilingreen]

Of course, Ring, Arlo, and Nest compete with Hikvision and Dahua. Both PRC companies have substantial consumer businesses (respectively Ezviz and Imou) and those compete against Ring, Arlo, Nest, etc. We are not abstractly recommending products. We are putting together the most comprehensive list of what companies have alternatives. These alternatives will compete in different segments.



You can ignore Dahua's human rights abuses and wave off their ongoing critical vulnerabilities, but I am not.

So the the US has had over 61.8 million+ babies murdered from1973-2018 in our country alone and the US government approved of that and has supported it both with laws and financially with your own tax dollars. In 2020 alone, our government paid Planned Parenthood $618.1 million dollars to murder human beings that would have been US Citizens. You and you business tax money. Where is your outrage towards our government supported murder of human beings? Didn't all those babies murdered have human rights too? I am not sensing an outrage from you about that. But yet, you seem to be outraged with what the PRC is doing, yet you ignore the human rights abuses the US of A is doing and seems to be very proud of it. Seems like your priorities might be slightly skewed. Oh...and that number of US Citizen murdered here in the US during 2019-2020 that was funded by your tax dollars? 354,871. Let me repeat that again: 354,871 human being murdered & paid for by the US Government

 

[bigredfish]

The fact of the matter is probably every company is involved with something you personally don't like.

Whether it be Nike, Amazon, Google, Apple, Walmart, etc., they are participate in various forms of deplorable working conditions in factories overseas paying them next to nothing. And that doesn't even touch on the wokeness aspect and other agendas many follow.

The only way to avoid it is to grow your own food and make your own clothing and furniture and build your house and don't drive a car and do not buy anything from anywhere.

Kinda hard to do. So do we boycott all or none? If we boycott only a few, which ones and why those and not another? Do I boycott Nike but not Dahua? Someone else may boycott Dahua but not Nike.

So where you draw the line is your personal choice.

^^^^
This plus the comments of @IAmATeaf

If we quit buying and consuming goods sourced from countries whose human rights practices we disagree with, we’re back to horse and buggy and growing our own food. Been to Mexico lately?

I get that China is problematic on many levels. From stealing IP to human rights. But I can’t help but wonder if the bigger problem to IPVM and it’s customer base, having read comments there for two or three years, is that the old guard industry absolutely hates inexpensive cameras with good features and reasonably good reliability. I’m guessing those Axis etc. integrators can’t make near the obscene profit markup on HiK or Dahua. They disrupted the status quo and it upset some business models.

 

[Arjun]

Wait a second, Ubiquiti's cameras are Made in China, oh wait...most of them are Made in China nowadays. American companies that now make their camera products in China really don't care about the risks associated with manufacturing overseas. They just want to make a profit from idiot consumers (and most of their consumer basis is full of ignorant and arrogant customers (and they don't know nor care about the risks) and CEO's like Bezos love that for the obvious reasons - $$$). There's every opportunity for exploits to be exposed. Remember Amazon's Ring Door Bell security holes?

 

[David L]

You've staked out a quite extreme position that even if we report negatively on PRC companies it "supports the PRC", like when we reported on Dahua's most recent critical vulnerabilities Dahua New Critical Vulnerabilities 2021 I leave it to each person to judge on whether that makes sense to them.

Once again I am confused, Since the Number One Rule HERE in setting up ANY Camera is to Block ANY and ALL Internet Access, what does any of this matter? The above video should start out with a warning message:

NEVER ALLOW INTERNET ACCESS TO ANY CAMERA, PERIOD!!!