Brands brands brands?

[Keri in FL]

I have read a lot of the forums here and folks really know their stuff. I put my actual questions 1st. I over analyze this stuff.

Actual questions:
What are the main differences between Hikvision, Duhua, and IC Realtime besides where they are made?

Am I better going with one over the other? Or is it simply a preference?

I noticed the apps for viewing these cameras have very bad reviews and that Blue Iris is utilized a lot here. I do enjoy the alerts when someone is at my front door, and remember the IVMS software was pretty poor at motion detection for review in the morning (I recorded 24/7). I see Lorex and other “cheap” brands claiming they have detection but am assuming it is still poor unless you have a great NVR or computer? Albeit, my spouse wants the cameras to see if anyone is in our backyard before she lets the dogs out – otherwise she will probably send me out!

Background
I had security cameras installed by professionals at my last house after a neighbor was hiding pot in my shrubs. They installed the same type of turret 2k Hikvision (all I remember) around the house all connected to one NVR. I used IVMS software and was not terribly impressed with the quality or ease of use.

Now
I built a new house and my backyard has maybe 100 feet of open space where we believe some folks walked up to our neighbor’s house and did damage then hid in our shrubs. Houses next to us are 30 feet away. Block house, high ceilings, impact glass, whole house generator
Front of the house has lights that are always on covering garage, workshop, driveway and street. The house came with a google nest hello doorbell camera that does a great job identifying people vs packages at the front door – and started recording the sound from the incident next door. Obviously, the information is sent to Google servers for data processing.

I ended up understanding the Hikvision cameras and IVMS software better than the professionals who installed it at my last house. Now I went to two different installers in my area for the product and installation - here is what they are selling…

New company suggested
NVR-208NS
IC Realtime - IPEG-B40V-IRW2 (it’s 4mp because I asked for that before reading the forums that maybe 2mp performs better in dark). They offer turret and dome as well; this was an example for me to see the specs. I know from reading turret is probably the route I’m going.
or
Luma (I read on the forums this is Hikvision rebrand)

I assume the other company is going to use Hikvision still. I see a lot of folks here use Dahua.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Hikvision or Dahua is personal choice. Some folks like one over the other. I'm a Dahua fan and like their web GUI for controlling the camera parameters better than the Hikvision version, and I do have a Hikvision based camera, too.

Don't get caught in the megapixel trap. More megapixels also requires more, a much bigger, sensor. The size of the sensor is the most important feature of a camera followed by the focal length of the lens. Focal length is important to be able to identify a subject.

The current balance of resolution and sensor size is a 1/2.8" sensor for a 2MP camera, a 1/1.8" sensor for a 4MP camera and a 1/1.2" sensor for an 8MP camera. This size/resolution ratio insures good vision both day and night with B&W at night. All cameras need light to "see" at night. Many cameras can be made to "see" color at night but at the expense of blurred motion, burred to the point of being useless for anything, simply by slowing the shutter down to 1/30 or slower. Beware of advertising that doesn't include video with motion at night. Starlight, Colovue, Starlight+, DarkFighter, FullColor and other cute names are nothing more than marketing terms that are used to entice people to buy based on a meaningless name.

Quick guide -

The smaller the lux number the better the low light performance. 0.002 is better than 0.02
The smaller the "F" of the lens the better the low light performance. F1.4 is better than F1.8
The larger the sensor the better the low light performance. 1/1.8" is better (bigger) than 1/2.7"
The higher the megapixels for the same size sensor the worse the low light performance. A 4MP camera with a 1/1.8" sensor will perform better than a 8MP camera with that same 1/1.8" sensor.

1/3" = .333"
1/2.8" = .357" (think a .38 caliber bullet)
1/1.8" = .555" (bigger than a .50 caliber bullet or ball)
1/1.2" = .833" (bigger than a 20mm chain gun round)

Don't believe all the marketing hype no matter who makes the camera. Don't believe those nice night time captures they all use. Look for videos, with motion, to determine low light performance.

The current goto camera is the Dahua 5442 series. 4MP on a 1/1.8" sensor. There is a new 8MP on a 1/1.2" sensor that was just released that also performs well. There are advantages to higher resolution but ONLY if the sensor size is appropriate for successful night video. Hikvision does have equivalent versions of the 5442 series, but I have no idea what the model numbers are.

 

[SouthernYankee]

My standard welcome to the forum message.

Read Study Plan before spending money
Cameras are for surveillance to get information for after the fact.

Please read the IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes and other items in the IP Cam Talk Wiki. (read on a real computer, not a phone). The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.


Quick start
1) If you do not have a wired monitored alarm system, get that first
2) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras if you need good low light cameras.
3) Start with a good variable focus camera, so you test for the correct lens,lighting, camera placement.
4) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
5) Do not use WIFI cameras.
6) Do not use cloud storage
7) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
8) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
9) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
10) Do not use reolink, ring, nest, Arlo, Vivint cameras (they are junk), no cloud cameras
11) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
12) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
13) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
14) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 7ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
15) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
16) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator
17) POE list PoE Switch Suggestion List
18) Camera Sensor size, bigger is general better Sensor Size Chart
19) Camera lens size the bigger number the more range the less FOV. . Which Security Camera Lens Size Should I Buy?
20) verify your camera placement, have a friend wearing a hoodie, ball cap and sunglasses looking down approach the house, can you identify them at night ?
21) DO NOT UPGRADE your NVR or camera unless you absolutely have a problem that needs to be fixed and known what you are doing, if you do you will turn it into a brick !!

Cameras to look at
IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED . Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+) - 4MP starlight
.................... Dahua IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED review
IPC-T5442TM-AS ..... Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ - 4MP starlight+
IPC-HDW5442t-ZE .... Dahua IPC-HDW5442T-ZE 4MP Varifocal Turret - Night Perfomance testing -- variable focus 2.7 mm-12mm 4 MP Starlight
IPC-B5442E-ZE ...... Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+ -- variable 2.7mm-12mm bullet
IPC-B5442E-Z4E .... bullet 8mm-32mm variable focus zoom 4MP
IPC-HFW7442H-Z ..... Review - Dahua IPC-HFW7442H-Z 4MP Ultra AI Varifocal Bullet Camera -- 4 MP variable focus AI
IPC-T2347G-LU ...... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera. (DS-2CD2347G1-LU)

 

[Keri in FL]

Hikvision or Dahua is personal choice. Some folks like one over the other. I'm a Dahua fan and like their web GUI for controlling the camera parameters better than the Hikvision version, and I do have a Hikvision based camera, too.

Thank you, that is exactly the information I was looking for - basically a preference. I did read the wiki and other information regarding the megapixel trap and lenses; hence, I'm less concerned about the 4mp now.

Anyone hear anything about IC Realtime? They are made in South Korea (so the claim) and conform to the new ban I am sure you are all aware about. I suspect they are more expensive because of those factors as well.....

 

[wittaj]

Not surprising you ended up knowing more than the "professionals"....you should consider building your system and installing your cameras yourself.

You have to first decide what is the purpose of the cameras - to IDENTIFY or to OBSERVE and at what distance. One camera cannot be the do all, see all.

It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL).

To identify someone with the 2.8mm lens that is popular, someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to your settings.

My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his four 2.8mm fixed lens cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well.

• 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
• 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
• 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
• 49225 PTZ - great PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.

You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

Main keys are you can't locate the camera too high (not on the 2nd story or above 7 feet high unless it is for overview and not Identification purposes) or chase MP and you need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who. Also, do not chase marketing phrases like ColorVu and Full Color and the like - all cameras need light - simple physics...

If you want to see things far away, you need optical zoom, digital zoom only works in the movies and TV...And the optical zoom is done real time - for a varifocal it is a set it and forget it. You cannot go to recorded video and optically zoom in later, at that point it is digital zoom, and the sensors on these cameras are so small which is why digital zoom doesn't work very well after the fact.

 

[TVille]

Thank you, that is exactly the information I was looking for - basically a preference. I did read the wiki and other information regarding the megapixel trap and lenses; hence, I'm less concerned about the 4mp now.

Anyone hear anything about IC Realtime? They are made in South Korea (so the claim) and conform to the new ban I am sure you are all aware about. I suspect they are more expensive because of those factors as well.....

I've never heard of IC Realtime before. Looking at their webpage, it appears to be marketing, not manufacturing. They also appear to be trying to support resellers and installers. Nothing wrong with that, but it does not make the products better, just another channel to end users.

 

[mat200]

I have read a lot of the forums here and folks really know their stuff. I put my actual questions 1st. I over analyze this stuff.

Actual questions:
What are the main differences between Hikvision, Duhua, and IC Realtime besides where they are made?

Am I better going with one over the other? Or is it simply a preference?
..

Welcome @Keri in FL

Q: What are the main differences between Hikvision, Duhua, and IC Realtime besides where they are made?

While I do not know the IC Realtime brand, the question you ask is similar to:

Q: What are the main differences between Ford, GM, Toyota, Nissan, ..

Are there differences? Yes. However - gets complex to fully understand and communicate as each make a lot of products, some good, some not so good, and some really nice.

This is why we encourage members to review products and share their knowledge and experiences.

In general, both Hikvision and Dahua products ( as well as nearly all IoT / internet connected devices which are not frequently updated / monitored ) have security holes. Hikvision has more Chinese CCP ownership iirc, and thus some Dahua a bit better for that reason. ( see IPVM for articles on that ).

Both Hikvision and Dahua are the major IP cameras OEMs of the world.

Either one, I would not fully trust on my network at work, or at home. Thus I restrict them. ( same with Alexa and other IoT stuff... I do not allow any of these easy access to my computers I use for e-commerce or banking .. )

If you go Blue Iris or other 3rd party NVR software ( VMS ) on a PC you can mix and match Hikvision and Dahua cameras which meet rtsp / ONVIF specs. That is liked by many people.

 

[Keri in FL]

Q: What are the main differences between Hikvision, Duhua, and IC Realtime besides where they are made?

While I do not know the IC Realtime brand, the question you ask is similar to:

Q: What are the main differences between Ford, GM, Toyota, Nissan, ..

Great point, that helps a bunch.

 

[mat200]

..

New company suggested
NVR-208NS
IC Realtime - IPEG-B40V-IRW2 (it’s 4mp because I asked for that before reading the forums that maybe 2mp performs better in dark). They offer turret and dome as well; this was an example for me to see the specs. I know from reading turret is probably the route I’m going.
or
Luma (I read on the forums this is Hikvision rebrand)

I assume the other company is going to use Hikvision still. I see a lot of folks here use Dahua.

Hi @Keri in FL

1) DO NOT go with that camera .. take a break first and consider your options.

Curious how much these cameras are from them...

4MP and a 1/3" sensor is a no go in my book if you need low light performance.


Specifications
Camera
Image Sensor: 1/3” 4 Megapixel progressive CMOS
Effective Pixels: 2688 (H) ×1520 (V)





2) If possible, most of us prefer to get better cameras ..

3) IC Realtime .. looks like Dahua OEM products ... look for EmpireTecAndy here to get better products if you want Dahua OEM ...

 

[Keri in FL]

Hi @Keri in FL

1) DO NOT go with that camera .. take a break first and consider your options.

Curious how much these cameras are from them...

They quoted $250 for that camera.

I'm not getting that one after reading the forums but they already recommended it based on my communication to them that I want 4mp because I was thinking higher resolution means I can take a picture out of the video and zoom in, which I read after the fact is wrong. They told me they normally install 2mp so I can't fault them for quoting me a camera I asked about. I am meeting both companies tomorrow to discuss "what" they would do.... The Lorex ads and their cheap prices are staring at me haha

It's hard to find information on IC Realtime from their website. Some places say they are a manufacturer but in South Korea - it seems everyone is trying to hide who actually makes their cameras. I know the two main ones make 90% of the world's cameras. So I figured I'd ask here about them.

 

[SouthernYankee]

The current goto camera has 4MP and a 1/1.8 sensor.
Also you live in Florida, a bug center, If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR) .

See my post above for camera recommendation, not all cameras meet all the my recommendations

My normal recommendation to start is BUY one good quality variable focus camera, and test it in the different location you are planning to use camera, test the mounting Hight, and the lens setting. Use a 2x4 and a bucket of rock to test, Test at night with motion, test with a bad guy wearing a hoodie. Can you ID the bad guy, if not change something. If the video will help the cops and stand up in court, if not you have wasted your time and money.

 

[wittaj]

$250 per camera for a 4MP on a 1/3" sensor is robbery.

A 4MP on the 1/1.8" sensor that is the current 4MP goto sensor is about $100 less than that. Even getting the varifocal would be cheaper.

My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his four 2.8mm 4k fixed lens cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away. His system was a 4K Lorex system from Costco and after seeing that my 2MP cams were blowing his 4K away, he started replacing the cameras with 2MP versions.

 

[mat200]

They quoted $250 for that camera.

I'm not getting that one after reading the forums but they already recommended it based on my communication to them that I want 4mp because I was thinking higher resolution means I can take a picture out of the video and zoom in, which I read after the fact is wrong. They told me they normally install 2mp so I can't fault them for quoting me a camera I asked about. I am meeting both companies tomorrow to discuss "what" they would do.... The Lorex ads and their cheap prices are staring at me haha

It's hard to find information on IC Realtime from their website. Some places say they are a manufacturer but in South Korea - it seems everyone is trying to hide who actually makes their cameras. I know the two main ones make 90% of the world's cameras. So I figured I'd ask here about them.

Hi @Keri in FL

If you have the ability, better to DIY imho.

$250 for that camera imho is too much, unless that includes running the cable .. even then most installers run the cabling in the most affordable way and charge a nice amount for what you can do.

Really good installers are worth the money.. however, not all are really good.

 

[TVille]

Hi @Keri in FL

If you have the ability, better to DIY imho.

$250 for that camera imho is too much, unless that includes running the cable .. even then most installers run the cabling in the most affordable way and charge a nice amount for what you can do.

Really good installers are worth the money.. however, not all are really good.

Yes, $250 for that camera is way too much.

Really good installers are worth the money, but this quote doesn't start off good in my book because they didn't break out the wiring. If the price is for the camera only, it is a flat out rip off.