If I'm definitely going to be running it behind a window, would you suggest something different? and generally what kinds of specs should i aim for if i wanted to look into the 2 cameras at around $90 each idea?
Cam for drive way monitoring
- Thread starter Araphen
- Start date
If I'm definitely going to be running it behind a window, would you suggest something different? and generally what kinds of specs should i aim for if i wanted to look into the 2 cameras at around $90 each idea?
Do you have an outlet outside that you could run an external IR light to extend the range of the camera?
@samplenhold has decent experience with running cameras from inside, so let's wait for him to chime in on his lessons learned.
@samplenhold has decent experience with running cameras from inside, so let's wait for him to chime in on his lessons learned.
I don't have an outlet I'd be able to use for that but I do have a light above my garage that can illuminate the cars. I could just keep putting higher lumen lights in it or get a new fixture that can hold an IR bulb and a high lumen LED bulb. But would the IR bounce off the cars then go through the window to the camera or would the window block it? And I'd prefer not to put a crazy bright light above my garage and blind people driving around the neighborhood.
That sounds like a plan to wait for more input. You all have been very helpful but unfortunately I'm gonna need to get some sleep soon because I have work in about 6 hours.
I'll be back afterwards to read and respond to all comments
Happy holidays!
The IR bounce is from the camera through a window at such close proximity, but an IR illuminator outside is how to get around that.
Yeah, more ambient light at night or IR outside would be how to extend the range.
Yeah, more ambient light at night or IR outside would be how to extend the range.
I know you did not use your own ho
From that height, you will never get a face shot of someone at your car. You will get a good look at their bald spot. So you have to decided EXACTLY what you are trying to accomplish with a camera. If you want just an overview to see what happened and you are not concerned with having enough quality video to allow the police to make an ID and arrest, then putting the 2.8 or 3.6mm in that window will work. But if you really want to get a good enough capture for the police to use, then you will need a narrower FOV and the cam will need to be much lower.
IR or normal light is something you need to decide upon. I have seven cams running through windows, but none of them are using IR light. They are all on full color 24/7. Four of these are at the front door and I have a lot of light. The other three are in second floor windows and are tasked with overview duties only. There is no way that they would be able to get a face ID from there. But they give me continuity from the standpoint of where the perp came from and where they went.
To combat reflections, the upstairs overview cams have blinds behind them and I have put black cloth between the cams and the blinds. The front door cams have a filmy see through cloth drape behind them and they do get some reflections depending on the lighting.
The thread below will give you some idea on how all of those cams perform in daylight/cloudy daytime.
ipcamtalk.com
Addressing motion versus continuous recording, the thread below covers that.
ipcamtalk.com
You can see the performance at night in these threads.
ipcamtalk.com
This thread will show you what properly placed cams with decent lighting can do:
ipcamtalk.com
That would not dox you. So this is not your house, but it looks like you are contemplating putting the cam in an upstairs window. If this is so, here are some things to consider.
From that height, you will never get a face shot of someone at your car. You will get a good look at their bald spot. So you have to decided EXACTLY what you are trying to accomplish with a camera. If you want just an overview to see what happened and you are not concerned with having enough quality video to allow the police to make an ID and arrest, then putting the 2.8 or 3.6mm in that window will work. But if you really want to get a good enough capture for the police to use, then you will need a narrower FOV and the cam will need to be much lower.
IR or normal light is something you need to decide upon. I have seven cams running through windows, but none of them are using IR light. They are all on full color 24/7. Four of these are at the front door and I have a lot of light. The other three are in second floor windows and are tasked with overview duties only. There is no way that they would be able to get a face ID from there. But they give me continuity from the standpoint of where the perp came from and where they went.
To combat reflections, the upstairs overview cams have blinds behind them and I have put black cloth between the cams and the blinds. The front door cams have a filmy see through cloth drape behind them and they do get some reflections depending on the lighting.
The thread below will give you some idea on how all of those cams perform in daylight/cloudy daytime.
Why I Like Redundant Views/Multiple Cam Views
A lot of newbies ask for help with their camera setups and most think that they can get by with a single cam to cover quite a bit of area. While that is possible if all you are interested in is a wide-angle overview, it usually will not give you a great chance of getting a face shot good enough...
Addressing motion versus continuous recording, the thread below covers that.
Why I like Continuous Recording (aka 24/7)
So a guy came to the door yesterday, and while my wife did not open the door, it kind of spooked her out. She said he seem suspicious saying he found a driver's license on the lawn and wanted to know if it belonged to her. So when I got back from the range, I checked out the cams. This is one...
You can see the performance at night in these threads.
Tonight's Race: USPS vs. Amazon!
This thread will show you what properly placed cams with decent lighting can do:
Door Checker?
This morning this guy was in my driveway. Looks like he is running from someone? He avoided my cameras fairly well. Got a reasonable profile view. He ran across the street and messed with a car in the driveway, but I do not think he got in. He then ran across the front yards staying close to...
I know you did not use your own ho
That would not dox you. So this is not your house, but it looks like you are contemplating putting the cam in an upstairs window. If this is so, here are some things to consider.
From that height, you will never get a face shot of someone at your car. You will get a good look at their bald spot. So you have to decided EXACTLY what you are trying to accomplish with a camera. If you want just an overview to see what happened and you are not concerned with having enough quality video to allow the police to make an ID and arrest, then putting the 2.8 or 3.6mm in that window will work. But if you really want to get a good enough capture for the police to use, then you will need a narrower FOV and the cam will need to be much lower.
IR or normal light is something you need to decide upon. I have seven cams running through windows, but none of them are using IR light. They are all on full color 24/7. Four of these are at the front door and I have a lot of light. The other three are in second floor windows and are tasked with overview duties only. There is no way that they would be able to get a face ID from there. But they give me continuity from the standpoint of where the perp came from and where they went.
To combat reflections, the upstairs overview cams have blinds behind them and I have put black cloth between the cams and the blinds. The front door cams have a filmy see through cloth drape behind them and they do get some reflections depending on the lighting.
The thread below will give you some idea on how all of those cams perform in daylight/cloudy daytime.
Why I Like Redundant Views/Multiple Cam Views
A lot of newbies ask for help with their camera setups and most think that they can get by with a single cam to cover quite a bit of area. While that is possible if all you are interested in is a wide-angle overview, it usually will not give you a great chance of getting a face shot good enough...
Addressing motion versus continuous recording, the thread below covers that.
Why I like Continuous Recording (aka 24/7)
So a guy came to the door yesterday, and while my wife did not open the door, it kind of spooked her out. She said he seem suspicious saying he found a driver's license on the lawn and wanted to know if it belonged to her. So when I got back from the range, I checked out the cams. This is one...
You can see the performance at night in these threads.
Tonight's Race: USPS vs. Amazon!
This thread will show you what properly placed cams with decent lighting can do:
Door Checker?
This morning this guy was in my driveway. Looks like he is running from someone? He avoided my cameras fairly well. Got a reasonable profile view. He ran across the street and messed with a car in the driveway, but I do not think he got in. He then ran across the front yards staying close to...
Thank you all for the help and info you've provided. What I've learned is that getting a clear video recording, through a window, at night, at a distance of 20-40ft, is impossible to fit into a $200 budget so I have to compromise. I'm sure that 99% of what this camera setup would be used for is watching for delivery trucks during the day so for that purpose I think this would suffice: (with a SanDisk High Endurance 256GB microSD card)
I basically just typed "window camera" into google and this was one of the two applicable results. But it looks like it was made for this exact purpose, it fits within my budget, and has lots of the features I'm looking for (like no subscription fees, 24/7 recording, mobile app, motion detection, etc.). Unfortunately the system is locked down and can only be accessed with their proprietary software so if I ever decide to upgrade to a real system I won't be able to use this camera.
I guess I'm hoping someone responds with something like "Well if you'd settle for a product like that then you should at least look at X" and suggest something I haven't considered but my hopes aren't high because I think my budget is too constraining.
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biggen
Known around here
- May 6, 2018
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@samplenhold runs several indoor cams pointing through windows. I'm sure he can give you better recommendations than that camera.
I really can't say more than what I stated in post #26.
What I can state about that cam is I looked at their website and there is no mention of the sensor used or any technical specs, so one can't make an educated guess as to the night performance. Even the example shots on Amazon show pixilation of the person taking the package. User shots posted in the reviews showed nice color stills, but the one with a car moving showed motion blur.
Someone asked in the FAQ what image sensor this camera uses and the response was: "2.0 megapixel CMOS". Is that good?
That is a non answer. It only tells you that it has 2MP on the sensor. Nothing about the sensor size. It is probably a 1/3" sensor. These were the sensors that were good four years ago, but most decent low light cams in that price point are using 4MP on 1/1.8" sensors. They most probably get these well lit pics by pumping up the gain, slowing the shutter, and opening up the aperture, which will impart motion blur.
Look at it this way. You need a certain minimum amount of light on each pixel to be able to see details of a face or clothing. So how do you get that? For a given pixel count, Increasing the sensor size lets more light to each pixel. Slowing the shutter lets in more light. Increasing the gain amplifies the light. Opening up the aperture allows more light to enter. But each of these come at some cost. A bigger sensor costs more and requires the cam to be bigger. Slowing the shutter down causes motion blur. Increasing gain imparts video noise and motion blur. Opening up the aperture reduces the depth of field causing focus issues.
mat200
IPCT Contributor
- Jan 17, 2017
- 14,961
- 25,200
Welcome @Araphen
Lots of good suggestions / recommendations and suggestions by members.
At this time I would recommend:
1) Buy a small PoE switch
2) Buy a camera ( Varifocal 4MP with a 1/1.8" sensor is what you can learn best with imho )
3) Setup a test rig, and start playing with it.
You're going to learn more playing with a camera at this point imho.
Plan for more than just one camera to meet your needs.
Typically, you can find ways to put 2 cameras on the top of the garage doors with just routing PoE cables along the door frame if you're worried about damaging the house.
A junction box is useful in many cases to hold the pig tails connections of the camera, and paint useful to blend the cameras to match the trim / walls.
@samplenhold @biggen @wittaj @SyconsciousAu
So I've got the Panasonic HomeHawk window camera set up (just stuck it to the window) and I've learned a lot from it already.
I can definitely see what a few of you were talking about when it comes to not getting a camera with an unnecessarily wide FoV. I don't need to see 100ft down the road or watch over my neighbors' cars. I didn't really know what 150° FoV would look like from that window or how tall the shot is so I figured I'd buy and try it and it turns out I can't even see my own cars. On the plus side it was super easy to just stick to the window and there's a thin rubber shroud around the edge which sits flush against the glass to keep glare out which works really well.
This camera also records in 30fps which is neat but i think it's unnecessary unless I were near something like a golf course and had stray golf ball problems. I've also noticed that even though this camera overcompensates at night and blows out pretty much the whole image, I have a decent amount of light from street lights at night and I think I could get a decent picture with a different camera.
On that topic, a friend recommended the Amcrest 5MP turret cam
It's less than half the price of the Panasonic window camera and I think it has a better spec for what I'm planning on using it for and it has a desktop/android app and can be used with blue iris if I upgrade at some point. Mounting it will be a challenge if I get it though.
I'm wondering what you all think of Amcrest as a brand and what you think of that camera specifically. Also if anyone has any neat ideas for mounting it to a window like maybe using some sort of adhesive brackets or shelves that work well. I'm thinking I might be able to pop the ball camera out and point it down into the base and then stick the base to the glass somehow. Failing that I'll probably 3D print something once my printer comes in.
I know someone suggested a 5442 camera but I'm having a hard time finding one that fits within my $200 budget once you add a high endurance 256GB microSD card and PoE injector.
So I've got the Panasonic HomeHawk window camera set up (just stuck it to the window) and I've learned a lot from it already.
I can definitely see what a few of you were talking about when it comes to not getting a camera with an unnecessarily wide FoV. I don't need to see 100ft down the road or watch over my neighbors' cars. I didn't really know what 150° FoV would look like from that window or how tall the shot is so I figured I'd buy and try it and it turns out I can't even see my own cars. On the plus side it was super easy to just stick to the window and there's a thin rubber shroud around the edge which sits flush against the glass to keep glare out which works really well.
This camera also records in 30fps which is neat but i think it's unnecessary unless I were near something like a golf course and had stray golf ball problems. I've also noticed that even though this camera overcompensates at night and blows out pretty much the whole image, I have a decent amount of light from street lights at night and I think I could get a decent picture with a different camera.
On that topic, a friend recommended the Amcrest 5MP turret cam
It's less than half the price of the Panasonic window camera and I think it has a better spec for what I'm planning on using it for and it has a desktop/android app and can be used with blue iris if I upgrade at some point. Mounting it will be a challenge if I get it though.
I'm wondering what you all think of Amcrest as a brand and what you think of that camera specifically. Also if anyone has any neat ideas for mounting it to a window like maybe using some sort of adhesive brackets or shelves that work well. I'm thinking I might be able to pop the ball camera out and point it down into the base and then stick the base to the glass somehow. Failing that I'll probably 3D print something once my printer comes in.
I know someone suggested a 5442 camera but I'm having a hard time finding one that fits within my $200 budget once you add a high endurance 256GB microSD card and PoE injector.
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mat200
IPCT Contributor
- Jan 17, 2017
- 14,961
- 25,200
Hi @Araphen
Completely understand the budget issues many people are having right now.
".. a friend recommended the Amcrest 5MP turret cam.. "
We've got a few members who picked some of those up, and mentioned there are discount codes often available to reduce the price...
So if you're tight on budget now, you can learn a lot with that camera ... look for the 3.6mm version instead of the 2.8mm version, get a nice little PoE switch and play some more.
Try out Blue Iris and see what you can do with that.
Remember to test it out.
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Amcrest are usually rebranded Dahua cams with dumbed down firmware. Some folks have had good luck flashing with Dahua firmware. That specific cam is a 5MP on a 1/2.7" sensor, so low light will not be as good as the same cam in 2MP on that sensor. If cost is an issue, no need to go the full 256MB card, 128 or 64mb is probably plenty if you do continuous recording to BI or an NVR.
Your pic post looks a little blurry. Maybe the window needs cleaning? Nice having the rubber shroud to kill the reflections.
Pic below shows how I mounted a window cam using a board and black fabric behind it to help minimize reflections. From the street, it just looks like the blinds are raised.
Your pic post looks a little blurry. Maybe the window needs cleaning? Nice having the rubber shroud to kill the reflections.
Pic below shows how I mounted a window cam using a board and black fabric behind it to help minimize reflections. From the street, it just looks like the blinds are raised.
Everyone only has good things to say about blue iris but it costs money doesn't it? and the Amcrest cameras come with free to use PC/android software so I'm thinking I'd try to stick to just that unless I was planning on throwing another $500-ish at this. I'm hoping to buy from amazon for the prime shipping but if I can save 10 bucks by buying elsewhere with a code, that'd be great.
I don't think I'd try mucking with the firmware unless it's just to run a standard update from from the OEM. You make it sound like this camera cuts corners so can you recommend a similarly priced camera that would fit this application better and has the features I'm looking for? (microSD card slot, PoE, not reliant on IR for night recording, and free to use PC/android apps)
Here's an example night pic from a reviewer using the same Amcrest camera at night without IR:
(I think the image quality is distorted for his video but you can see the light levels pretty well)
The thing about the 256GB microSD card is I already bought it for use with the panasonic camera and I'm hoping to not have to return something so small. Plus I'd like a few days of recording without the hassle of setting it up to record to a pc because then I have to figure out software and the performance impact on my plex server (no idea if it's nothing or actually might cause problems) and I'd have to designate a certain amount of storage for it too. So having an isolated stand-alone system sounds really favorable.
The window was cleaned before sticking the camera to it but it was raining that day so that might be causing the blurriness. Also it's just a 1080p camera at such a wide angle which can't be helping. If you're referring to the outside of the window I don't think I can reach that without a ladder or popping the screen out which is almost definitely dry rotted in place by now and removing it would destroy it. On the subject of screens, have you had any luck filming through a screen? The solution you're suggesting is something I haven't considered and might work for me but the bottom half of my window has a bug screen so I would have to build a frame that can sit in the upper half but is definitely doable.
mat200
IPCT Contributor
- Jan 17, 2017
- 14,961
- 25,200
FYI -
1) Amcrest at times has discount codes for their cameras from Amazon... search the thread here for those, or perhaps signup for the Amcrest Newsletter
2) Dahua OEM SmartPSS can be used to put VMS software on a PC - free
3) Blue Iris .. iirc is about $60ish.... also would need a PC for that...
There are other VMS products also.. those are good to start with to compare and contrast.
sebastiantombs
Known around here
You could also try the Dahua 3241T-ZAS. It's only a 2MPP but has a varifocal lens that can be very handy to get just the right focal length. The price is around $140 and it has pretty good low light capabilities. It's the replacement to the 5231R-Z which was king of the hill for a while and performs better than the 5231 by a little while being less expensive.
ipcamtalk.com
Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal
IPC-T3241-ZAS from EMPIRETECANDY 2MP WDR Turret Varifocal AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Purchase in the IPCT Store Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price...
You could also try the Dahua 3241T-ZAS. It's only a 2MPP but has a varifocal lens that can be very handy to get just the right focal length. The price is around $140 and it has pretty good low light capabilities. It's the replacement to the 5231R-Z which was king of the hill for a while and performs better than the 5231 by a little while being less expensive.
Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal
IPC-T3241-ZAS from EMPIRETECANDY 2MP WDR Turret Varifocal AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Purchase in the IPCT Store Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price...
When you say the Dahua 3241T-ZAS is good in low light, is that reliant on IR? because I'm putting this behind a window so I can't use IR
sebastiantombs
Known around here
You can shut off the IR and go 24/7 color. Night may take different setting, which is true of any camera that maintains color 24/7. There is no way to know for certain IF it will work in your situation or if a 5442 series would work either. I have one mounted where it gets help from a street light that's about 150 feet away, behind the camera. I can maintain color at night but only if I keep the shutter speed at 1/60 which does tend to blur fast motion a bit.
What I do is keep the IR shut off and rely on the street lamp for lighting, keeping the camera in B&W mode at night. It has a built in schedule that can be used and adjusted to accomplish things like this
What I do is keep the IR shut off and rely on the street lamp for lighting, keeping the camera in B&W mode at night. It has a built in schedule that can be used and adjusted to accomplish things like this
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