Dahua TIOC camera does not recognize the IVS rule at night, original support is at a loss...

[cam-da]

Hello Community,

I would like to ask for help with the configuration of the Dahua camera model D-IPC-HFW3449T1P-ZAS-PV-27135.

IPC-HFW3449T1-ZAS-PV - Dahua International

IPC-HFW3449T1-ZAS-PV

www.dahuasecurity.com

The camera is mounted on the pillar in the outdoor area (garden) and facing the gate (property entrance).

I use the IVS rule "Intrusion area". The SMD function is deactivated.

I have tried everything, but the person and vehicle detection IN THE NIGHT does not work properly

During the day, people and vehicles are detected correctly with the ITS rule. Everything works perfectly.

I have already contacted the distributor support. The technician spent several days changing the configuration of the camera with me. It was not successful.

After several support sessions including TeamViewer, we could not get the IVS rule to deliver a practical detection of people and vehicles at night.

I also contacted the official Dahua DACH support.

I opened the ticket with Dahua on 25.10.2023:

The whole thing became an endless project. I will only summarize key points at this point:

• the 1st support employee (from Germany) was unable to help us after several contacts and live sessions (he had live access to the hardware)
• we were referred to a 2nd Dahua DACH support colleague who works in Switzerland

- as the camera is installed very far away from me and I always have to drive 30 minutes by car, I asked my local neighbor for help with the remote configuration. My neighbor always has to do the walk tests so that I can make the settings live. The fact that the neighbor had to walk into the IVS zone from several directions almost every day in the evening/night understandably annoyed him quite a bit, because it was already like a "monkey theater" at the zoo.

- The fact was: it didn't work again and the 2nd Swiss colleague was also unable to set the IVS rule in a practical way after several attempts. He said that he would contact the "Research & Development Team" in China.

I mounted an additional infrared illuminator about 3 meters away from the camera.

After several searches on the Internet, I looked for a solution and found a possible solution via the shutter setting. Two days ago I adjusted the shutter and gain. It has improved a lot, but today the function is pretty bad again.

I read on the Internet that motion blur could be the cause. As I have mounted an additional 10W infrared illuminator, I am able to set the shutter manually to between 0 - 2ms at night. I have set the gain to 0 - 75. From a purely optical point of view, the image is very good. Without any recognizable noise or ghost images. The camera is connected to a Dahua NVR4204-P-EI recorder.

Since the IVS rule is not working now, I have set the FPS (25 FPS), resolution (2688 x 1520) and bitrate (VBR 8192 Kbps, quality 6 best) to very high values. To reduce the load on the CPU, I set the encoding type to "General" and the encoding to H264. But I don't think the IVS rule will work any better.

Do you have any idea why the IVS rule "Intrusion" only works during the day and not at night?

Many thanks, regards cam-da

 

[bigredfish]

I'll assume the basics are setup correctly on the IVS rule....

It certainly looks bright enough.
Its hard to explain but IVS rules, especially Intrusion boxes have a "3D" nature to them. People can literally "walk underneath" the rule line and not trigger the rule.
Have you tried tripwires? I find them more sensitive and I like to use a zig zag effect to increase chances of trigger.


Not familiar with TIOC's enough to know if there is some other setting being missed...Your shutter settings and the added IR help a lot. You should be able to with with even slower shutter but thats great.!

? Are you making these settings on the camera UI itself or on the NVR?

 

[cam-da]

I'll assume the basics are setup correctly on the IVS rule....

It certainly looks bright enough.
Its hard to explain but IVS rules, especially Intrusion boxes have a "3D" nature to them. People can literally "walk underneath" the rule line and not trigger the rule.
Have you tried tripwires? I find them more sensitive and I like to use a zig zag effect to increase chances of trigger.
View attachment 176937

Not familiar with TIOC's enough to know if there is some other setting being missed...Your shutter settings and the added IR help a lot. You should be able to with with even slower shutter but thats great.!

? Are you making these settings on the camera UI itself or on the NVR?

I have already tried IVS rules. It did nothing. I have also tried the IVS rule setting in the camera and in the NVR.

The NVR and the camera have also been reset several times.

Today I saw something strange:

The NVR is only connected to 1 camera. I accidentally selected camera 2 in the NVR in the parameter selection (IVS rule), which is not present, and switched back to the connected / existing camera in a few seconds. At this moment, the IVS rule drawing appeared, which was set to Probe 2 days ago and NO LONGER EXISTS. Only when I switched back and forth once in the menu was the correct IVS rule visible again. It may just be a display error (or cache memory problem?) I don't know if it can be related to this.

 

[cam-da]

I'll assume the basics are setup correctly on the IVS rule....

It certainly looks bright enough.
Its hard to explain but IVS rules, especially Intrusion boxes have a "3D" nature to them. People can literally "walk underneath" the rule line and not trigger the rule.
Have you tried tripwires? I find them more sensitive and I like to use a zig zag effect to increase chances of trigger.
View attachment 176937

Not familiar with TIOC's enough to know if there is some other setting being missed...Your shutter settings and the added IR help a lot. You should be able to with with even slower shutter but thats great.!

? Are you making these settings on the camera UI itself or on the NVR?

 

[bigredfish]

Two key points to clarify

1- You MUST use IE (I also have luck with Edge in IE mode) otherwise some functions and settings may not keep or be visible
2- You MUST make setting changes in the CAMERA UI not the NVR

BOTH Intrusion AND Tripwire are = IVS Rules.

Can you show your settings in the CAMERA UI for the Intrusion box you are using?

 

[cam-da]

Thank you for the information.

I have already tried all that. I can also display and configure the settings and test in the SmartPSS software (this is professional software).

https://us.dahuasecurity.com/product/smartpss/

DahuaWiki

dahuawiki.com

 

[duplo]

Can you post a video of a person at night ?

 

[wittaj]

OK, so you acknowledge that to reduce the load on the CPU, you dropped encode to general, so you have a basic understanding of these units, which is good.

But there is more you need to do.

In my experience, especially with the TIOC, is that all of them other than the 2MP version suffer because the other ones are using a sensor/processor designed for 2MP.

While your camera isn't as bad as the 8MP version, they shoved 4MP on a sensor and processor designed for 2MP, so those cameras generally suffer when pushed too hard, and then add TIOC on it is a recipe for trouble.

Just because a camera is rated at a certain spec doesn't mean it can be ran at that.

25FPS is probably overloading this processor. There is a post here somewhere that in order to make it work, they had to drop FPS to 5.

And 75 for gain is too high. Go no more than 65.

So for kicks, try the following:

5FPS
5 iframe
8192 bitrate
CBR not VBR
Make contrast 8 points higher than brightness setting

And we know what SmartPSS is and just because it is "professional software" doesn't mean it is good for camera settings holding.

As @bigredfish said, unfortunately we have seen for best success the camera settings have to be set within Internet Explorer, not Chrome or Edge with the IE tab, but plain ole Explorer.

We have tons of threads here where someone reluctantly tries and and low and behold it works and the settings stick.

That doesn't mean it will work for you instance due to the known issues people have had with TIOCs, but it is the only way to give it its best shot.

Like I said my 2MP version works flawlessly and I have way less light than yours.

It is so important that you use Explorer and make the settings in the camera GUI, that the NVR makes it possible from the NVR GUI. To get into the camera GUI from the NVR, you need to first access the NVR GUI by going to a computer and opening up a browser (preferably Internet Explorer but Pale Moon will work as well) and type in the IP address of the NVR and login that way. Next go into the camera settings page on the NVR and look for the Microsoft e Web Browser and select it and it will go to the camera GUI (photo credit bigredfish from his PSA thread). Your screen may look a little different to get into the camera gui and see if doing it this way gets you access to some other features the NVR is blocking - do not worry about the Port number and circle as that was from another issue someone posted.

Simply select the blue IE icon and it will go to the camera GUI and from there you can set the camera parameters.

 

[cam-da]

OK, so you acknowledge that to reduce the load on the CPU, you dropped encode to general, so you have a basic understanding of these units, which is good.

But there is more you need to do.

In my experience, especially with the TIOC, is that all of them other than the 2MP version suffer because the other ones are using a sensor/processor designed for 2MP.

While your camera isn't as bad as the 8MP version, they shoved 4MP on a sensor and processor designed for 2MP, so those cameras generally suffer when pushed too hard, and then add TIOC on it is a recipe for trouble.

Just because a camera is rated at a certain spec doesn't mean it can be ran at that.

25FPS is probably overloading this processor. There is a post here somewhere that in order to make it work, they had to drop FPS to 5.

And 75 for gain is too high. Go no more than 65.

So for kicks, try the following:

5FPS
5 iframe
8192 bitrate
CBR not VBR
Make contrast 8 points higher than brightness setting

And we know what SmartPSS is and just because it is "professional software" doesn't mean it is good for camera settings holding.

As @bigredfish said, unfortunately we have seen for best success the camera settings have to be set within Internet Explorer, not Chrome or Edge with the IE tab, but plain ole Explorer.

We have tons of threads here where someone reluctantly tries and and low and behold it works and the settings stick.

That doesn't mean it will work for you instance due to the known issues people have had with TIOCs, but it is the only way to give it its best shot.

Like I said my 2MP version works flawlessly and I have way less light than yours.

It is so important that you use Explorer and make the settings in the camera GUI, that the NVR makes it possible from the NVR GUI. To get into the camera GUI from the NVR, you need to first access the NVR GUI by going to a computer and opening up a browser (preferably Internet Explorer but Pale Moon will work as well) and type in the IP address of the NVR and login that way. Next go into the camera settings page on the NVR and look for the Microsoft e Web Browser and select it and it will go to the camera GUI (photo credit bigredfish from his PSA thread). Your screen may look a little different to get into the camera gui and see if doing it this way gets you access to some other features the NVR is blocking - do not worry about the Port number and circle as that was from another issue someone posted.

Simply select the blue IE icon and it will go to the camera GUI and from there you can set the camera parameters.

Hi @wittaj,

Many thanks for your feedback.

I have now adjusted the camera according to @wittajs recommendations.

I have also taken the screenshots and attached them.

I'll test the function tonight.

Many thanks for all the hints and tips.

 

[wittaj]

Try dropping NR to 35 or 40 as well.

 

[cam-da]

Try dropping NR to 35 or 40 as well.

Thank you for your quick reply. Do you mean 2D NR or 3D NR or both? And why? does it affect the AI recognition? I'm just curious...

 

[wittaj]

Yes drop both 2D and 3D NR.

The higher the number, the "smoother" the object "appears" when watching real time or on playback, but it also introduces blur that can then make it difficult to freeze frame for a clean image and then AI could think it is a ghost or bug going by LOL.

It is best to drop NR down as far as you feel comfortable. At night, lower numbers will introduce "artifacts" and dancing pixels, so there is a trade off because if you turn off NR or the number is too low, then you won't identify either, but too high NR and you won't identify either.

It is interesting at night to turn off NR and see just how much digital processing is occurring on a static image. It is also a good test to see if one has enough light (visible or infrared). In the daytime you can turn NR off and the image is great static and with motion because it has enough light (although most will keep it on with a lower number in the 20s to account for dusk/dawn/cloudy days).

 

[cam-da]

Hello @wittaj,

I have made the recommended settings. The problem remains. The person recognition on the right and top of the picture only works about 70-80%, on the left the function is almost 0%.

I have attached the video (@duplo). The recording was played with a browser so that the lines can be seen. Don't be surprised, the person's face has been made unrecognizable for data protection reasons. The recording was made by me remotely and is a bit jerky.

Because the video is too big, I put it in the cloud:

example_night_IVS_rule_2023-11-05-1801.mp4

Managed Nextcloud - powered by hosting.de

221226mwuhmfgws2hyi.nextcloud.hosting.zone

I don't know what else can be done to make the IVS rule finally work.

I am always open to further tips.

Thank you for your help.

 

[duplo]

Must be firmware related. Looks like they use a really bad model for night.
It is unable to detect a person.

Normal behaviour would be a box around the person, no matter if inside or outside the ivs rule.

Here one example of the mini ptz with much worse picture 60m away during rain (without zoom)




ps.
do you have face detection enabled or disabled ? not sure if you have these settings
looks like it only detects a person when having full frontal face.

maybe post screenshots of all your AI-config /smart plan from cam webif,

 

[cam-da]

Hello @duplo,

As I have already written, the distributor's support could not help me after days. After that, Dahua support was directly busy for almost 1 week. The support also installed this new firmware

Model: DH-IPC-HFW3449T1-ZAS-PV, Firmware V3.120.0000000.39.R Build:2023-09-18,

which is supposedly the "latest" firmware. This firmware has not yet been published on the Dahua website.

The firmware 3_V3.120.0000000.34.R.230715 is still on the Dahua website

IPC-HFW3449T1-ZAS-PV - Dahua International

IPC-HFW3449T1-ZAS-PV

www.dahuasecurity.com

Dahua support has now forwarded my case to development in China. No one knows when someone will get back to me.

Face detection and face comparison are deactivated for me. Everything works 100% in daylight.

Many thanks for all the tips.

 

[wittaj]

Darn, I was hoping dropping the demand on the camera could get you going.

I think it just comes down to what I mentioned previously - they are trying to do too much on that camera with a sensor/processor designed for 2MP and then the processor overloads and can't process everything and bugs out. I have tried them all and the higher MP TIOC cams all suffer to some degree.

My 2MP TIOC works great and it has very little light.

 

[looktall]

Is been a while since i checked IVS rules, but can you set them to run only at certain times?
Could be that this rule is not set to run all the time?

 

[wittaj]

Is been a while since i checked IVS rules, but can you set them to run only at certain times?
Could be that this rule is not set to run all the time?

Yeah, you can set IVS up on a schedule.

Good point - while not ideal and may cause some false triggers, the OP should try SMD at night and see if it works?

 

[duplo]

Darn, I was hoping dropping the demand on the camera could get you going.

I think it just comes down to what I mentioned previously - they are trying to do too much on that camera with a sensor/processor designed for 2MP and then the processor overloads and can't process everything and bugs out. I have tried them all and the higher MP TIOC cams all suffer to some degree.

My 2MP TIOC works great and it has very little light.

I dont think this is true.
I have one lite model (

https://de.aliexpress.com/item/4001189386876.html

) which should be worse than this TiOC cam and dont have this problem.

Hello @duplo,

As I have already written, the distributor's support could not help me after days. After that, Dahua support was directly busy for almost 1 week. The support also installed this new firmware

Model: DH-IPC-HFW3449T1-ZAS-PV, Firmware V3.120.0000000.39.R Build:2023-09-18,

which is supposedly the "latest" firmware. This firmware has not yet been published on the Dahua website.

The firmware 3_V3.120.0000000.34.R.230715 is still on the Dahua website

IPC-HFW3449T1-ZAS-PV - Dahua International

IPC-HFW3449T1-ZAS-PV

www.dahuasecurity.com

Dahua support has now forwarded my case to development in China. No one knows when someone will get back to me.

Face detection and face comparison are deactivated for me. Everything works 100% in daylight.

Many thanks for all the tips.

i didnt ask if you update the firmware.
you can make it even worse if you update it.
its nice that they update your camera without asking.

if its a firmware bug, update wont help. only if the release note says it will fix THIS bug it might help.


have you tried SMD ? does it detect human ?
the camera should have SMD4.0, which works really well in my experience.

try turn off IVS and turn on SMD (human/vehicle filter on). Post video of person walking around.
if SMD does not work, it looks like a firmware bug for me.
this can only be fixed in china.

 

[wittaj]

I dont think this is true.
I have one lite model (

https://de.aliexpress.com/item/4001189386876.html

) which should be worse than this TiOC cam and dont have this problem.

Your camera isn't an active deterrence TIOC...