Expecting to much

Well now I feel like a sap for giving the guy something like the benefit of the doubt earlier, and even wasting my time trying to explain, to some degree, why a typical DSLR shooting stills should outperform a typical security camera streaming compressed video.

I guess it takes a few years of being attacked by trolls and scammers to develop a better "sense of smell" about these things.

This has turned out to be a most amusing thread! Regardless of the OP's intentions, hopefully some of the sincere advice that has been offered will prove useful to other people stumbling onto the thread, with the drama serving to keep them (and us) well entertained along the way.
 
Well now I feel like a sap for giving the guy something like the benefit of the doubt earlier, and even wasting my time trying to explain, to some degree, why a typical DSLR shooting stills should outperform a typical security camera streaming compressed video.
You didn't waste your time.
Many would find that explanation useful and illuminating.

This has turned out to be a most amusing thread!
I have to agree!
 
Very entertaining thread, with twists, turns, deception, obfuscation and threats.
Lots of good info was shared (thanks @mat200 , @J Sigmo, and others) amidst the drama.

Here's Brandon Hunt in his company's PR video:
upload_2019-7-28_15-0-45.png
 
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How come when I take the first picture which is supposed to be what the second and third picture came from and I zoom in I don't get anywhere near the detail and quality of the second or third image. I think you zoomed in using your zoom lens and took the second and third.

Yes, this was one of several signs that he was trolling. Or dangerously incompetent. Who is to say?
 
How come when I take the first picture which is supposed to be what the second and third picture came from and I zoom in I don't get anywhere near the detail and quality of the second or third image.
I didn't particularly want to add to this riveting thread, but -

If you look at the posted images, the EXIF data shows that the 'stock' is using the lens focal length set to 21mm.
The 3x and 5x images have the lens zoomed right out to 300mm.
And in no cases is the camera digital zoom in use.
So the whole premise of comparative image quality is false when it's done with a long telephoto lens.

upload_2019-7-29_22-29-17.png

upload_2019-7-29_22-25-32.png
 
I didn't particularly want to add to this riveting thread, but -

If you look at the posted images, the EXIF data shows that the 'stock' is using the lens focal length set to 21mm.
The 3x and 5x images have the lens zoomed right out to 300mm.
And in no cases is the camera digital zoom in use.
So the whole premise of comparative image quality is false when it's done with a long telephoto lens.

View attachment 45389

View attachment 45386
in he claimed to use lightroom to zoom in and only used a single image(the only one on the sd card) but image properties says it all
Expecting to much
 
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He says he used "Lightroom", an Adobe photo editing app.
To be fair, that tool (which presumably allows zoom, crop, etc), may modify the EXIF data to show the equivalent focal length lens to create the zoomed image?
The EXIF data shows Digital Zoom Info was the same for the various images. And if he used only one image, the camera didn't use "digital zoom", so all EXIF image properties are identical re: "Digital Zoom".
But the Lightroom app might have tweaked the focal length number to show the equivalent amount of zooming in?
I'm trying to not jump to the conclusion he took 3 separate photos, since he said all jpegs were from one SLR shot.
To take 3 separate shots on the same day ("same day" since the cars in the parking area are identical), and then lie about it, simply to ask this forum about "SLR vs IP Cam" re: a) optics, b)image resolution, c) sensor size, d) etc. just seems illogical. I can't understand the motivation to concoct such a ruse.
Fastb
 
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My theory is he hired a security company to upgrade his camera. He probably wanted a camera that was so many mp, would capture entire parking lot and be less then x amount of $. When he got the camera and realized it didn’t give him what he expected he raised hell with the company that installed it. When they told him he was expecting to much from what he paid for he then came here for support to throw in security companies face or whatever. When he didn’t get the answers he was wanting he then went full fucking retard and sabotaged himself over and over. I listened to his YouTube video about his business, sounds like a real douche bag.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Good catch, @alastairstevenson

And no, @Fastb. I applaud your desire to give this guy the benefit of the doubt. But Lightroom will NOT change the EXIF shooting data (at least on its own) to compensate for "digital zoom". This is for a number of reasons, but one big one is that we always want to know the original shooting information when viewing our or other people's photos. Another is that since this "digital zoom" is actually just cropping and resizing, making such an adjustment would be impossible to do accurately because so many steps could be used in the process. I have Lightroom CC due to it coming along with Photoshop these days as part of the subscription model Adobe now uses. While Lightroom may well be fantastic, I don't use it much because, quite simply, I'm more used to and productive with good old Photoshop.

Still, it's nice of all of us to give folks the benefit of the doubt whenever possible.

But, to me, the smoking gun here is this:

The photo posted as "Stock" has the following characteristics when I examine its EXIF in Photoshop:

The actual time the photo was taken is shown as: 2019-07-22 16:31:11.001
It says it was taken using an 18-300mm f/3.5/6.3 lens set to 21mm focal length
And even more proof is that the exposure info for this shot is:
1/1000th sec; f/22; ISO5000; Manual; Pattern metering

On the other hand, the photo posted as "3x zoom" has the following characteristics:

It was shot with the 18-300mm f/3.5/6.3 lens, but set to 300.00mm this time

And now, the original file date/time is: 4:31:22 pm (so this was taken 11 minutes later than the first (wider) shot).

And the exposure information for this shot is:
1/1000th sec; f/22; ISO 12800; Manual; Pattern metering

That means that he shot the second image 11 minutes later, using the same lens, but this time zoomed out to its maximum of 300mm (instead of at 21mm like the first shot) AND, while he may have tried to shoot with the same exposure settings, the camera was set to auto-ISO mode, and in order to expose for the shadow in which the car in question was located, it bumped up the ISO from 5000 to 12800. So very clearly, the two "digital zoom" images were NOT made from the same image.

He cheated and zoomed the lens from a relatively wide angle setting (21mm) to a relatively long focal length of 300mm. Further, he shot with a different exposure setting (even if he didn't realize it) so the dark shadow area where this car's license plate was at was more properly exposed.

The "5x zoom" image does appear to simply be a cropped and upsized version of the second image. You can really see the digital noise in the image shot at ISO 12,800.

I'm not sure what the guy was trying to prove or figure out by doing this. In effect, what he did was prove our point that you need a camera zoomed in (longer focal length lens) and set for the proper exposure if you want to read license plates effectively. He made OUR point for himself, but then still didn't want to accept it. That's sort of odd if his initial intent really was to figure out how to do LPR and/or facial recognition.

You cannot pull the license plate info out of the first (as he called it "Stock") image he made at 21mm with his DSLR. Even it doesn't get the job done. Not even close.

Pinch Point(s)
Enough "pixels per license plate" (or as we used to say in the macro-shooting forums "Pixels Per Ladybug").
Proper exposure.


The problem at my place is that there is a buttload of traffic past my house and I don't have any good vantage points to do proper LPR. Still, I'd like to play with it, but the angles for the most common traffic will be at about 45 degrees from the plates at best. It may be doable, but may not be worth my effort here.

On the other hand, the OP may well have a way to get a good zoomed-in camera aimed at cars entering and leaving his parking lot. He just has to accept that this will be a separate camera from his overview camera.
 
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You can always strip the EXIF from a photo file.

One way is to use "save for web" in Photoshop and check the appropriate box.

Doing so helps reduce the file size, and also protects the photographer's privacy and shooting information to some degree. Fortunately, the OP didn't realize that this was necessary and possible when trying to pull off this deception.

You can even edit the EXIF and be as sneaky as you wish. However, most people don't even realize that this EXIF metadata is embedded by default by almost every digital camera.

I usually set up my web browsers to have an add-on EXIF viewer extension. I got so used to being able to see the shooting info for various photos that when I read a magazine like National Geographic, I am frustrated to not be able to see the shooting info for those photos!

It really is interesting, informative, and educational to be able to see what body, lens, and settings were used to make various shots.

When we post images to some on-line photo contests, etiquette requires you to leave the EXIF intact so the others can learn.

But everyone should always be aware that most digital images, by default, contain a lot of metadata that you may wish to remove before sharing the images.

This often includes GPS coordinates and the name of the camera owner these days.
 
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But everyone should always be aware that most digital images, by default, contain a lot of metadata that you may wish to remove before sharing the images.

This often includes GPS coordinates and the name of the camera owner these days.
Yes indeed.
And has been valuable evidence for Law Enforcement in criminal and civil investigations where the smartphone GPS in the images and videos tells a different story than the human.
 
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I still don’t understand what he hoped to gain by doctoring images and claims unless it was as others pointed out that he wanted evidence to use against the cctv installer. Even if this was the case, it’s a classic case of the camera never lies.
 
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The thing is, you can edit a digital image to make it lie.

But there are gadgets like this:

Canon DVK-E2 Data Verification Kit

These were available for some of Canon's DSLRs a few years ago. I'm not sure if they offer anything like that for their newer bodies.

These were used to validate the authenticity of digital photos that need to be admissible as evidence in court, etc.

Then I ran across this:

Russian Software Firm Breaks Canon's Authenticity Verification, Big Time

I'm not sure if there's something new to take the place of that system.

It's always something! ;)

I've done some retouching of images, but it's not easy to make it come out great. A tool called Topaz Remask makes it easier, but it's still a hassle in my experience. But there are folks who are very good at it!

ReMask – Topaz Labs
 
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Does this camera also not have a "crop factor" given that it's not full frame? I recall on my Canon 450d you had to account for a 1.6x zoom when comparing focal length to a 35mm equivalent.
 
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Wow. You know, this could be a great business opportunity, if there is no service already out there that provides daily scans of internet content/social media postings of your business name or personal name.

I mean how hard could it be? Do automated searches each night from the major search engines, compare to the previous ones, and report the differences via email to the customer.

Damn! Just googled 'reputation management' and it is a BIG business. Oh well, good idea, just maybe a decade too late.


I have a Google monitored search set up for my name so I get an occasional email when someone with the same name does something noteworthy. I can't remember why I set it up but it's probably because I found out that it exists and wanted to have a go.
 
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