Found this place after two weeks searching for a system

luisrg

n3wb
Nov 16, 2020
4
2
san juan capistrano
Hi all! I have been looking for a system for my home and after two weeks of searching I stumbled on this forum I need 4 cameras (4k) with audio -with room to expand- I was planning to get an NVR but after reading for two days in this forum maybe I should get a dedicated pc to run blue iris. Want to keep it under 1K. I can run Cat 5 wire thru the attic and walls and conduit under the lawn to a lamppost in my front lawn, I worry about syncing up the cameras and software since I have never done it. Any and all recommendations are welcome.
Thank you in advance.
Luis
 
How about these: Amcrest UltraHD 4K (8MP) Outdoor Security IP Turret PoE Camera, 3840x2160, 164ft NightVision, 4.0mm Narrower Angle Lens, IP67 Weatherproof, MicroSD Recording (128GB), White (IP8M-T2499EW-40MM)

  • 4K as requested. 1/2.5" sensor: not the best at low light but you shouldn't expect the best low light performance at 4K.
  • PoE
  • built-in microphone
  • Turret form factor, better than bullet for keeping bugs off the lens.
  • Good price

There's a model with a 2.8mm lens and one with a 4mm lens. 2.8mm has the wider field of view, but that means less detail on further away subjects. So think carefully about what is more important.

Amcrest has several other 4K models by the way. Some with different sensors or different lenses. Even one that doesn't have PoE but is $30 cheaper.
 
The problem with a "package" system is that you get one model of camera and all with the same focal length and you are stuck with using the same brand of cameras as the NVR to get ful functionality from those cameras. The best way to select cameras is to buy a varifocal, set it up in a test stand in each location where you think you want a camera and test it, day and night, with someone playing the "bad guy". See if you can identify them. Rule of thumb is not to mount over 8 feet high, better if around seven feet, or all you'll get are the top of the head. There's a calculator in the WiKi, in the blue bar at the top of the page, so you can determine the focal length from the zoom setting of the camera. There's a ton of additional information there that will help you set up a system.

Don't chase megapixels, chase sensor size. An 8MP camera with the same sensor size as a 4MP will not perform as well under low light conditions. Effectively, the 8MP will only get half the light per pixel that a 4MP will get making low light performance degrade significantly. Remember this is for surveillance, you're not trying to produce a Hollywood Epic, are you?

Blue Iris is easy to set up. It will determine the best configuration for each camera as you add them. The biggest trick is setting motion detection zones and sensitivity.

My "standard" welcome -

Start out by looking in the WiKi in the blue bar at the top of the page. There's a ton of very useful information in there and it needs to be viewed on a computer, not a phone or tablet. The Cliff Notes will be of particular interest although the camera models listed there are a generation old at this point. The best way to determine what kind of camera you need in each location and where each location should really be is to buy one varifocal camera first and set up a test stand for it that can be easily moved around. Test using that, viewing using the web interface of the camera, during the day and at night. Have someone walk around behaving like a miscreant and see if you can identify them. There is also information for choosing hardware and securing the system along with a whole bunch of other good stuff.

Don't chase megapixels unless you have a really BIG budget. General rule of thumb is that a 4MP camera will easily outperform an 8MP camera when they both have the same sensor size. Reason being that there are twice as many pixels in the 8MP versus the 4MP. This results in only half the available light getting to each pixel in an 8MP that a pixel in the 4MP "sees".

A dedicated PC doesn't need to be either expensive to purchase or to run. A used business class machine can be had from eBay and various other sources. The advances made in Blue Iris make it easily possible to run a fairly large system on relatively inexpensive hardware whiich also makes power consumption low, as in under 50 watts in many cases. The biggest expenses turn out to be hard drives for storing video and a PoE switch to power the cameras and, of course, the cameras themselves.

Three rules
Rule #1 - Cameras multiply like rabbits.
Rule #2 - Cameras are more addictive than drugs.
Rule #3 - You never have enough cameras.

Quick guide -

The smaller the lux number the better the low light performance. 0.002 is better than 0.02
The smaller the "F" of the lens the better the low light performance. F1.4 is better than F1.8
The larger the sensor the better the low light performance. 1/1.8" is better (bigger) than 1/2.7"
The higher the megapixels for the same size sensor the worse the low light performance. A 4MP camera with a 1/1.8" sensor will perform better than a 8MP camera with that same 1/1.8" sensor.

Don't believe all the marketing hype no matter who makes the camera. Don't believe those nice night time captures they all use. Look for videos, with motion, to determine low light performance.

Read the reviews here, most include both still shots and video.

Rule of thumb, the shutter speed needs to be at 1/50-1/60 or higher to get night video without blurring.

The 5442 series of cameras by Dahua is the current "king of the hill". They are 4MP and capable of color with some ambient light at night. The 2231 series is a less expensive alternative in 2MP and does not have audio capabilities, no built in microphone, but is easier on the budget.

5442 Reviews
Review-OEM Loryta IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal 4mp camera (Dahua)
IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal from @EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret Varifocal Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Andy's Email: kingsecurity2014...
ipcamtalk.com ipcamtalk.com

Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+
All, thanks to Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY ) we have a new 4MP AI camera for testing. This camera has been provided by Andy in exchange for a fair and honest review. This camera is using the OEM model number of IPC-B5442-ZE which is the equivalent of the Dahua IPC-HFW5442-ZE for reference. The IPC-B...
ipcamtalk.com ipcamtalk.com

Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+
Dahua OEM IPC-T5442TM-AS from EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Andy's Email: kingsecurity2014 (at)...
ipcamtalk.com ipcamtalk.com

Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+)
Dahua OEM IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED from EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Andy's Email: kingsecurity2014...
ipcamtalk.com ipcamtalk.com

Review: IPC-HDBW5442R-ASE-NI - Dahua Technology Pro AI Dome Network Camera
Hey, this is a wonderful forum, and since I’ve recently purchased a new set of Dahua cameras, I thought I’d share my thoughts and opinions. This camera is the IPC-HDBW5442R-ASE-NI, and it’s actually the fourth camera from Dahua that I’ve purchased for my house over the years. Prior to this, I...
ipcamtalk.com ipcamtalk.com

2231 Review
Review-OEM IPC-T2231T-ZS 2mp Varifocal Starlight Camera
Updated 12/11/19. Edited for clarity. Dahua OEM IPC-T2231T-ZS from EMPIRETECANDY 2MP WDR Turret Varifocal Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon...
ipcamtalk.com ipcamtalk.com
 
I would recommend building your own system. Purchase an NVR and cameras from the same manufacture. The best cameras have a 1/1.8 sensor, the bigger the sensor the more light and the better picture quality.

Start with one variable focus camera , use it to verify the correct lens and camera placement.
=============================================
My standard welcome to the forum message.

Read Study Plan before spending money
Cameras are for surveillance to get information for after the fact.

Please read the IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes and other items in the IP Cam Talk Wiki. (read on a real computer, not a phone). The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.



Quick start
1) If you do not have a wired monitored alarm system, get that first
2) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras if you need good low light cameras.
3) Start with a good variable focus camera, so you test for the correct lens,lighting, camera placement.
4) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
5) Do not use wifi cameras.
6) Do not use cloud storage
7) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
8) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
9) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
10) Do not use reolink, ring, nest, Arlo cameras (they are junk), no cloud cameras
11) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
12) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
13) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
14) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 7ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
15) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
16) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator V3
17) POE list PoE Switch Suggestion List
18) Camera Sensor size, bigger is general better Sensor Size Chart
19) Camera lens size, a bigger number give more range but less field of view. Which Security Camera Lens Size Should I Buy?

20) verify your camera placement, have a friend wearing a hoodie, ball cap and sunglasses looking down approach the house, can you identify them at night ?
21) DO NOT UPGRADE your NVR or camera unless you absolutely have a problem that needs to be fixed and known what you are doing, if you do you will turn it into a brick !!

Cameras to look at
IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED . Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+) - 4MP starlight
.................... Dahua IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED review
IPC-T5442TM-AS ..... Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ - 4MP starlight+
IPC-HDW5442t-ZE .... Dahua IPC-HDW5442T-ZE 4MP Varifocal Turret - Night Perfomance testing -- variable focus 2.7 mm-12mm 4 MP Starlight
IPC-B5442E-ZE ...... Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+ -- variable 2.7mm-12mm bullet
IPC-B5442E-Z4E .... bullet 8mm-32mm variable focus zoom 4MP
IPC-HFW7442H-Z ..... Review - Dahua IPC-HFW7442H-Z 4MP Ultra AI Varifocal Bullet Camera -- 4 MP variable focus AI
IPC-T2347G-LU ...... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera. (DS-2CD2347G1-LU)
IPC-HDW2231R-ZS .... Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal
IPC-HDW2231T-ZS-S2 . Review-OEM IPC-T2231T-ZS 2mp Varifocal Starlight Camera
IPC-HDW5231R-ZE .... Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
IPC-HFW4239T-ASE ... IPC-HFW4239T-ASE
IPCT-HDW5431RE-I ... Review - IP Cam Talk 4 MP IR Fixed Turret Network Camera
IPC-T5241H-AS-PV ... Review-OEM IPC-T5241H-AS-PV 2mp AI active deterrence cam
IPC-T3241-ZAS ...... Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal -- 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal
IPC-HFW2831T-ZS ... -- 8MP Bullet 1/1.8” sensor variable focus.
DS-2CD2325FWD-I
N22AL12 ............ New Dahua N22AL12 Budget Cam w/Starlight -- low cost entry
IPC-T2347G-LU....... Review-Loryta OEM 4MP IPC-T2347G-LU ColorVu Fixed Turret Network 4mm lens & Junction Box -- 4MP ColorVu
.................... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera.

Other dahua 4MP starlight Dahua 4MP Starlight Lineup

My preferred indoor cameras
DS-2CD2442FWD-IW
IPC-K35A Review-Dahua IPC-K35A 3mp Cube Camera
IPC-K42A

If interested in Blue Iris and other setup items see the following post

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Test do not guess
 
Ok so if you do not mind I will need help deciding on the components of this system, what do you think about this computer to start the built? I assumed this is the first step...
Your input an others is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Luis
 
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That would work well, but (there's always a but) the 1TB drive isn't really needed. A 256GB SSD or M2 drive would be better. In a case like this patience is a true virtue. An i5, 7th or 8th generation, would be less expensive. I'm not an expert on Dell, but dual channel memory is also good to have and you might want to add another 8GB for a total of 16GB for added headroom.
 
That would work well, but (there's always a but) the 1TB drive isn't really needed. A 256GB SSD or M2 drive would be better. In a case like this patience is a true virtue. An i5, 7th or 8th generation, would be less expensive. I'm not an expert on Dell, but dual channel memory is also good to have and you might want to add another 8GB for a total of 16GB for added headroom.


this one is $150 more with 4x more RAM and SSD but i do not know about the two NVIDIA cards....?
HP EliteDesk 800 G3 Intel i7 6700 3.4Ghz 32GB RAM 256GB SSD 500GB HDD 2x NVS310 | eBay

So I originally said a system around $1K but if I spend $400 on this computer I guess the total build will be around $1400? if I get 4 ( around $200) cameras and the software..?
thanks
Luis
 
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I purchased an EliteDesk with 16GB. I add my own 120GB SSD (for windows and BI) and added a 4 TB WD Purple (for video) . Get a good tower case, it is easier to add the SSD and additional disk drive. You do not need a video card, most newer I7 or I5 system will have a built it graphics

Shop EBAY. take some time to get a good system.
 
Ok so if you do not mind I will need help deciding on the components of this system, what do you think about this computer to start the built? I assumed this is the first step...
Your input an others is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Luis
I dont think that particular dell has a bay for an ssd . but its new enough that might have an Nvme drive slot onboard. which them would be ok
 
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You can also run a system with no NVR at all, even a PC based one. Most cameras now have Micro SD slots. You can store all footage there and configure the camera directly through the website that the camera hosts, at its IP address your network gives it. This is the approach I currently use and have for years.
 
So my son has a i7-6700k, RAM, cooling fan and power supply that he is going to give me, I plugged the styles in PCpartpicker.com (to make sure everything is comparable) and I am planning on getting a WD 4tb purple and a tower. what type or kind of motherboard should I get?
Also the is telling me that if I get 4k cameras I need a 4k monitor, otherwise why spend the extra money on 4k. Is he correct?
thanks
Luis