Gas prices

redpoint5

Getting comfortable
Joined
May 12, 2020
Messages
192
Reaction score
581
Location
PDX
The Department of Energy was formed in 1977 to move the US towards energy independence. When it was established, the US was importing 35% of oil, and it got worse all the way until 2005 where the US was importing 60% of oil. That's 30 years of utter failure.

If you want to make sure a problem lingers a long time, get government working on it. I'm sure Biden can double the length of the looming depression, just as FDR did.
 

qflyer

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Oct 22, 2021
Messages
75
Reaction score
50
Location
USA
"grid will expand" how, do you know how long it takes to build a coal or nuclear plant?
Yeah, it's in the power company's best interest to expand their capacity. They make money off electricity, you know that right? And if you scroll up, you'll see the studies are already being done to figure out how to make it all happen.

The math is horrific at .32 a kwh.
Maybe your math skills are horrific, but the math itself isn't. At $0.32/kwh, an EV costs 9 cents per mile. Do you know what gas prices have to be for a 30 MPG ICE car to cost 9 cents per mile? Spoiler alert: it's $2.67/gal. That 30 MPG car costs 16.5 cents per mile at the current national average price of $4.955.

Since you like worst case scenarios, if you use California's average of $6.37/gal, that 30 MPG ICE car costs 21 cents per mile. So, tell me again how horrifically expensive an EV is to operate at $0.32/kwh.

And since we really want to take an honest look at things, the average MPG in the US is 25.4. At the national average of $4.955/gal, the average American pays 19.5 cents per mile to drive their gas car around right now. Yet you think 9 cents per mile at the highest electricity rate in the nation is "horrific". Be careful, your bias is showing.

An efficient ICE car is way more economical but for government intervention.
Care to take that back now that I've shown the math?

Buy an EV and solar panels. Spoken like a true woke elitist. Get your head out of your ass. Aside from the many years it would take to see a return on that investment, 64% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. I can buy fuel at $100 a gallon and it wont affect my lifestyle one bit. This is not the case for most people. They cant pay their mortgage, rent or grocery bills. The fact that you don't get that is exactly the problem.
Not "woke" or "elitist". If you can afford to own a home, you can afford solar panels IF YOU WANT THEM. Solar won't work for everyone due to HOAs, natural shading around the home, poor view of southern sky, etc, but don't act like they're unobtainable. Everyone's usage is different, but for me, my ROI is 7 years. I'm not staying in this home for 7 years, so I'm not going to do it, but I definitely will go solar after my next move in a couple years.

The government should stop subsidizing people buying 50k+ cars.
And they should stop subsidizing foreign governments, foreign wars, big oil companies, farmers, and even parents of children. Why does the government give you tax breaks for having kids? See, the funny thing about you anti-EVers is that you get so worked up over the $7,500 tax cut for those who buy an EV, yet you take every credit/deduction available to you. How is it any different for me to get money for buying a car vs you getting money for having kids? If you haven't noticed, the government incentivizes all sorts of behaviors through the tax code.

As a libertarian, I think it should all go away. Everyone pays as close to %0 tax as possible and the only thing government does is a small military, courts, and maybe a few other small things. It shouldn't be the massive POS it is today with its hand in everything.

Stop interfering with the free market.
Libertarians have been saying that since forever ago, but you folks keep voting R and D thinking your side is different from the other. Sorry to tell you, they're the same.
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
11,787
Reaction score
20,978
Location
USA
We have no more supply? LOL, I see new 100+ home subdivisions going up every other month. How do they get power if we don't have any more? You're the guy sitting on his horse and buggy saying, "Those gas cars are unreliable, and what do you do when you can't find gas? I can feed my horse anywhere there's grass!"
Because when a new subdivision goes in front of the planning commission for approval (usually a zone change), the requirements are does the water and sewer system have capacity and get approval from the water and sewer department if they plan to connect to that system...the gas and electric company are not involved nor is approval required for them (maybe some parts of the country require it, but many do not)...
 

CCTVCam

Known around here
Joined
Sep 25, 2017
Messages
1,715
Reaction score
1,994
In the UK quite a few people are now buying elecric bikes instead. Personally I wouldn't feel safe on one with all the traffic these days but I have to say, knowing someone who has one who is entirely unfit, they're great as bikes go.

In the UK unlike the US where they're better still as you can run soley on electric, we have to pedal to activate the motor as it's only to assist (otherwise here it becomes classed as a motorbike and needs tax, insurance , registration etc), eletcric bikes that assist are still classed as bikes and the motor serves to keep the cycling as if it were on a flat serface at all times so it's effortless even up hills (unless you select a lower level of assist). Many people are buying a small solar panel for their shed and recharging their bike from it thus avoiding any running costs altogether.
 

Parley

Known around here
Joined
Dec 19, 2015
Messages
3,908
Reaction score
9,338
Location
Cypress, California
In the UK quite a few people are now buying elecric bikes instead. Personally I wouldn't feel safe on one with all the traffic these days but I have to say, knowing someone who has one who is entirely unfit, they're great as bikes go.

In the UK unlike the US where they're better still as you can run soley on electric, we have to pedal to activate the motor as it's only to assist (otherwise here it becomes classed as a motorbike and needs tax, insurance , registration etc), eletcric bikes that assist are still classed as bikes and the motor serves to keep the cycling as if it were on a flat serface at all times so it's effortless even up hills (unless you select a lower level of assist). Many people are buying a small solar panel for their shed and recharging their bike from it thus avoiding any running costs altogether.
Speaking of car taxes, that is what is going to occur with the electric vehicles in this country. Right now the gasoline tax is a big funder of the road infrastructure in this country. So if the electric vehicles are not buying gasoline they are not paying the gas tax. However the electric vehicles do use the roads, so I see a special tax coming down the road for electric vehicles.
 

qflyer

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Oct 22, 2021
Messages
75
Reaction score
50
Location
USA
Speaking of car taxes, that is what is going to occur with the electric vehicles in this country. Right now the gasoline tax is a big funder of the road infrastructure in this country. So if the electric vehicles are not buying gasoline they are not paying the gas tax. However the electric vehicles do use the roads, so I see a special tax coming down the road for electric vehicles.
It’s already here in most states. I pay the state an extra $250 every year for my EV.
 

tigerwillow1

Known around here
Joined
Jul 18, 2016
Messages
2,573
Reaction score
4,883
I see a special tax coming down the road for electric vehicles
It's already happening. These are the Oregon 2-year registration fees:
  • 0 to 19 MPG: $112.
  • 20 to 39 MPG: $132
  • 40 MPG and over (not in OReGO): $152
  • 40 MPG and over (enrolled on OReGO): $86.
  • 40 MPG and over Electric (not enrolled OReGO): $306.
  • 40 MPG and over Electric (enrolled OReGO): $86.
OReGO is pay by mile, which is where it looks like the governments want to go for all vehicles. The liberal control freaks are probably salivating at the thought of a GPS tracker AND kill switch in every car. You highlight a good point that the current comparisons of gas vs. electric fuel costs are comparing taxed gasoline with untaxed (for roads) electric.
 

qflyer

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Oct 22, 2021
Messages
75
Reaction score
50
Location
USA
It's already happening. These are the Oregon 2-year registration fees:
  • 0 to 19 MPG: $112.
  • 20 to 39 MPG: $132
  • 40 MPG and over (not in OReGO): $152
  • 40 MPG and over (enrolled on OReGO): $86.
  • 40 MPG and over Electric (not enrolled OReGO): $306.
  • 40 MPG and over Electric (enrolled OReGO): $86.
OReGO is pay by mile, which is where it looks like the governments want to go for all vehicles. The liberal control freaks are probably salivating at the thought of a GPS tracker AND kill switch in every car. You highlight a good point that the current comparisons of gas vs. electric fuel costs are comparing taxed gasoline with untaxed (for roads) electric.
Pay by mile would be ideal. Why shouldn't everyone pay based on usage? Throw in a weight or # of axles category too. No need for trackers or "kill switches" (lol, why must EVERYTHING be a conspiracy to you folks?), just verify mileage at your annual registration.
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Messages
9,747
Reaction score
22,536
Location
New Jersey
We're "conspiracy theorists" because if the government gets a finger nail through a tiny opening the politicians exploit it into a cash cow every time. If, and that is an extremely big word, they actually used the money they take from the citizens for the purposes they purport it to be for it would be one thing but they "re-purpose" funds whenever it suits their whim or they need votes or want to do a friend, major campaign contributor, a favor.

By the way, a tax on gasoline is, effectively, a tax based on miles, weight, horsepower and driving habits. But that's, obviously, not enough for some States like Oregon. They want more money from the cash cow known as the automobile.
 
Last edited:

qflyer

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Oct 22, 2021
Messages
75
Reaction score
50
Location
USA
We're "conspiracy theorists" because if the government gets a finger nail through a tiny opening the politicians exploit it into a cash cow every time. If, and that is an extremely big word, they actually used the money they take from the citizens for the purposes they purport it to be for it would be one thing but they "re-purpose" fuds whenever it suits their whim or they need votes or want to do a friend, major campaign contributor, a favor.

By the way, a tax on gasoline is, effectively, a tax based on miles, weight, horsepower and driving habits. But that's, obviously, not enough for some States like Oregon. They want more money from the cash cow known as the automobile.
Not disagreeing about the government's ability to steal from us while telling us it's for our own good. But the comment I was replying to was that the government wants mileage taxes for the purpose of installing trackers and kill switches. BTW, if you have onstar, your car already has a tracker and kill switch in it.

The gas tax is close to a per-mile tax, but it's still not. A Ford Mustang has an average MPG of 17-24, depending on trim/engine. Why should the driver of a 5.0 Mustang pay more taxes than the owner of an Ecoboost Mustang? And why should they both pay more than someone who owns a Honda Accord that averages 33 MPG? If we must be taxed for owning and driving cars, mileage, weight, and axels should determine how much we pay.
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Messages
9,747
Reaction score
22,536
Location
New Jersey
If a driver can drive a car to produce higher mileage it is no different than having a higher mileage car. That makes a gas tax more equal IMHO than any other form of "mileage" tax. Give them enough time, and enough dead EV battery packs, and they'll start taxing the crap out of them, too. The tracker and kill switch would come along as a "natural" progression to "punish"/prevent cheating. Wanna bet I'm right on that? If you don't believe it you sadly misjudge the evil that politicians are capable of in spite of it being so obvious all around you.
 
Last edited:

qflyer

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Oct 22, 2021
Messages
75
Reaction score
50
Location
USA
Well, how about that, indeed! Another false headline on yahoo? Say it aint so!

The "study" compares the annual CO2 emissions of a classic car that drives an average of 1,200 miles per year to the CO2 emissions involved in producing a new car or EV. Nowhere does it tell us how much CO2 was produced in the manufacturing process of that classic car - they treat that number as 0. They also say the classic car only emits 563 kg of CO2 per year, but that's based on 1,200 miles of use. The average mileage driven per year in the UK is 7,400. If you use that mileage, the classic car emits 3,500 kg of CO2 per year, so in just two years it has the same footprint of that new VW Golf, and in 7 years, it matches the footprint of a polestar EV. Americans average about 15,000 miles per year, so cut those timelines in half in the US.

Besides not accounting for the CO2 emissions of producing the classic car, it doesn't account for the carbon footprint created in maintaining that classic car. The "study" says the average classic car owner spends about 350 dollars PER MONTH to maintain their vehicle. That level of maintenance doesn't come without an added carbon footprint.

So yeah, the article is really, really misleading at best, and just flat out wrong at worst. You're smart enough to know that if you actually read the "study" and weren't heavily biased against EVs.
 

mat200

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Jan 17, 2017
Messages
9,708
Reaction score
13,285
It's already happening. These are the Oregon 2-year registration fees:
  • 0 to 19 MPG: $112.
  • 20 to 39 MPG: $132
  • 40 MPG and over (not in OReGO): $152
  • 40 MPG and over (enrolled on OReGO): $86.
  • 40 MPG and over Electric (not enrolled OReGO): $306.
  • 40 MPG and over Electric (enrolled OReGO): $86.
OReGO is pay by mile, which is where it looks like the governments want to go for all vehicles. The liberal control freaks are probably salivating at the thought of a GPS tracker AND kill switch in every car. You highlight a good point that the current comparisons of gas vs. electric fuel costs are comparing taxed gasoline with untaxed (for roads) electric.
Pay by mile would be ideal. Why shouldn't everyone pay based on usage? Throw in a weight or # of axles category too. No need for trackers or "kill switches" (lol, why must EVERYTHING be a conspiracy to you folks?), just verify mileage at your annual registration.
Absolutely .. NO NEED for trackers or "kill switches"


(lol, why must EVERYTHING be a conspiracy to you folks?)

Good question ..

Let's ask a few more ..

1) so ask how does the Government and others know so much more about you now, compared to say 1970 ??

2) How did the movie 2000 mules get info on the mules?

3) How did the Jan 6th people get tracked? ..

hint: Times Opinion was able to identify individuals from a trove of leaked smartphone location data.

4) slippery slope .. and your liberty is on the short end of the stick .. regardless of Obama or Bush, your liberty has declined ..

recently...
A section of the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, which passed Congress in December 2021 and has since become law, gave the federal government three years to establish a rule that would require new cars to be “equipped with advanced drunk and impaired driving prevention technology.”

someone will propose a kill switch option there .. just a question of if you notice in time to care ..

5) Government in the West has already shown it reduces liberty during the pandemic .. closing churches even .. censoring information ..
 
Last edited:
Top