Gas prices

[garycrist]

We were hosed in 2008 by the Dems getting rid of GWB. A typical campaign to make us suffer
when we do not vote the right candidate in. Just as soon as the right candidate was selected
as if by magic!!!

2008 U.S. Gas Price Year in Review

Gas prices have always been an up and down proposition. This year has been as especially rocky year, with prices reaching the highest in history, then plummeting to a 5-year low within only a matter of months. Graphs and

www.treehugger.com

 

[qflyer]

We were hosed in 2008 by the Dems getting rid of GWB. A typical campaign to make us suffer
when we do not vote the right candidate in. Just as soon as the right candidate was selected
as if by magic!!!

2008 U.S. Gas Price Year in Review

Gas prices have always been an up and down proposition. This year has been as especially rocky year, with prices reaching the highest in history, then plummeting to a 5-year low within only a matter of months. Graphs and

www.treehugger.com

LOL, more conspiracy theories. Take a look at this graph. Start in 2001 when GWB became POTUS, and explain why gas prices rose steadily during his terms, peaking at over $4/gal. Obama took office and prices continued to go up for a couple years, hold steady for a couple years, and then drop again to 2006 prices for the last couple years of his presidency. Then notice that when Trump was elected, prices went right back up! The only thing that saved Trump was a global pandemic and stay-at-home orders.

It's like gas prices fluctuate constantly and are influenced by far more than who holds the presidency in the US.

 

[redpoint5]

That’s Brandon’s handlers plan. Raise the cost of oil so high that it is economical to buy and drive a EV.

No one except a liberal would have considered a EV under “the bad orange man” when we were energy independent and had cheap fuel for these evil environment destroying gas and diesel vehicles.

2 things can be correct at the same time. EV "fuel" has always been cheap. I had a Prius which got 50 miles per gallon, and it was still 1/3rd the cost to run it on electricity instead of petrol. That what back when gas was like $2.80 / gallon. Now electricity is like 1/5th the cost.

Biden is willing to allow everyone to suffer to push an agenda ahead of technical feasibility. That's also true.

Just because Biden likes a thing (EVs) doesn't mean it's bad. Just because he hates a thing (fossil fuels) doesn't mean alternatives are feasible.

 

[mat200]

LOL, more conspiracy theories. Take a look at this graph. Start in 2001 when GWB became POTUS, and explain why gas prices rose steadily during his terms, peaking at over $4/gal. Obama took office and prices continued to go up for a couple years, hold steady for a couple years, and then drop again to 2006 prices for the last couple years of his presidency. Then notice that when Trump was elected, prices went right back up! The only thing that saved Trump was a global pandemic and stay-at-home orders.

It's like gas prices fluctuate constantly and are influenced by far more than who holds the presidency in the US.



View attachment 131412

Just wanted to make the Gasonline price chart a bit more clear ...

 

[tigerwillow1]

Stop it with the crazy conspiracy theories. I bet you were one of the folks against LED light bulbs, too.

You caught me! How did you know I campaigned against LED lights? Those facts prove I'm a crazy conspiracy theorist and my predictions about the grid are bullshit, right? But my stupidity did give you an opportunity to boast about your boat and airplane. 40 gph must be a cabin class twin Congrats on scoring so many points in a single post.

 

[qflyer]

You caught me! How did you know I campaigned against LED lights? Those facts prove I'm a crazy conspiracy theorist and my predictions about the grid are bullshit, right? But my stupidity did give you an opportunity to boast about your boat and airplane. 40 gph must be a cabin class twin Congrats on scoring so many points in a single post.

Well, let's see your studies regarding the grid. Here's one from a couple years ago.

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/f...t Scale Grid Summary Report FINAL Nov2019.pdf

 

[garycrist]

One word ENRON.

 

[fenderman]

And it will continue to work because as EVs become more popular, the grid will grow to accommodate the higher demand.

Nobody is "punishing" ICE vehicles or their owners with high gas prices, and the gas prices aren't high to shove EVs down anyone's throat. When gas spiked to over $4/gal under Republican POTUS GWB in 2008, was that to push EVs? No, they barely existed. Gas prices fluctuate.

Stop it with the crazy conspiracy theories. I bet you were one of the folks against LED light bulbs, too.

I don't like the current price of gas either. I burn 15-20 gallons an hour in my boat and 40 GPH in my airplane. Gas on the water is $7/gal and avgas is getting close to $10/gal most places I go. It'll sort itself out in the next recession.

Electricity is not created ex nihilo. It's not just that the grid can't handle it we have no more supply. These electric cars are terrible for the environment, are subsidized by taxpayers, and will result in electric rates going through the roof this will primarily impact low-income families. Forgive me if I don't give a shit about your boat. Gas prices could drop by a dollar or two a gallon just by the announcement that the president would revert to the old policies, this is because oil prices are futures based.

 

[sdkid]

That's weird, nobody has told me to lower my AC usage, and my electric car is charging just fine as I type this. My house is set to 70°, how in the world is this working right now?!?!?

I am confused. Do you think rolling blackouts or brownouts don't happen? Do you think utilities begging customers to conserve in peak times doesn't happen? Do you think utilities controlling your AC and shutting it off doesn't happen or can't happen?
It does.
Before I escaped California, I got emails like this from SoCal Edison all the time. They also pushed hard to get me to sign up for a "special savings program" whereby they re-wire my AC compressor so THEY control it. Some people said I was "selfish" for not doing it. Here is the utility begging repeatedly -- From my email:



and here is typically what they asked people to do:



I like that you live in an area with 9 cent per kwh electric rates-- mine is 8.6 cents/kwh. How would all that math work out with these rates from SCE? This is my indoor power use monitor where I got to watch that goddam bill ratchet up all month. Of course, you hit tier 4 (32 cents per kwh) pretty quick. In 14 years there, I don't know that I ever had a month where I didn't hit that tier. Our house was set to 80 degrees. The bill represented below would be about $160 where I live now



If they can target an AC compressor, they could certainly target an EV charging station. Don't be naive.

 

[qflyer]

Electricity is not created ex nihilo. It's not just that the grid can't handle it we have no more supply. These electric cars are terrible for the environment, are subsidized by taxpayers, and will result in electric rates going through the roof this will primarily impact low-income families. Forgive me if I don't give a shit about your boat. Gas prices could drop by a dollar or two a gallon just by the announcement that the president would revert to the old policies, this is because oil prices are futures based.

We have no more supply? LOL, I see new 100+ home subdivisions going up every other month. How do they get power if we don't have any more? You're the guy sitting on his horse and buggy saying, "Those gas cars are unreliable, and what do you do when you can't find gas? I can feed my horse anywhere there's grass!"

"These electric cars are terrible for the environment"? Wait, now you're all about going green? Sorry if I don't find your concern for the environment genuine.

Electric cars are subsidized by tax payers? You don't think big oil gets billions of tax dollars? I know that every time I buy an EV, I've gotten a $7,500 check from the government. That's not a handout, it's my own tax dollars coming back to me. You only get it if you have at least a $7,500 tax burden, so it's not your tax dollars or anyone else's. It's my tax dollars that I'm getting back. I thought republicans loved tax cuts?

 

[qflyer]

I am confused. Do you think rolling blackouts or brownouts don't happen? Do you think utilities begging customers to conserve in peak times doesn't happen? Do you think utilities controlling your AC and shutting it off doesn't happen or can't happen?
It does.
Before I escaped California, I got emails like this from SoCal Edison all the time. They also pushed hard to get me to sign up for a "special savings program" whereby they re-wire my AC compressor so THEY control it. Some people said I was "selfish" for not doing it. Here is the utility begging repeatedly -- From my email:

I like that you live in an area with 9 cent per kwh electric rates-- mine is 8.6 cents/kwh. How would all that math work out with these rates from SCE? This is my indoor power use monitor where I got to watch that goddam bill ratchet up all month. Of course, you hit tier 4 (32 cents per kwh) pretty quick. In 14 years there, I don't know that I ever had a month where I didn't hit that tier. Our house was set to 80 degrees. The bill represented below would be about $160 where I live now

Sure they happen, and the grid will expand to handle it. It won't happen overnight, just like 100% of car buyers won't buy EVs overnight. It'll take years and years to transition, and in that time, the grid will adapt.

How does the math work at $0.32/kwh? Still cheaper than gas at it's current price. But hey, if you don't see the savings in an EV, don't buy one. Literally nobody is trying to force EVs on you. Go buy a Suburban if you want. Nobody cares.

And why all the concern about government controlling electricity or electricity rates? Like, you're convinced they control everything about gasoline and you're perfectly happy to keep gas? If one man (POTUS) can say the word and cause gas price fluctuations of 100% or more, why in the world would you want to stay on that system? Why not buy an EV, some solar panels and batteries and you'll never have to worry about government involvement in your transportation costs again. I get the feeling it's not about that though. It's about political talking points and "my side is way better than your side."

 

[garycrist]

I used to live in an America where we were all on ONE side, not several.

 

[fenderman]

Sure they happen, and the grid will expand to handle it. It won't happen overnight, just like 100% of car buyers won't buy EVs overnight. It'll take years and years to transition, and in that time, the grid will adapt.

How does the math work at $0.32/kwh? Still cheaper than gas at it's current price. But hey, if you don't see the savings in an EV, don't buy one. Literally nobody is trying to force EVs on you. Go buy a Suburban if you want. Nobody cares.

And why all the concern about government controlling electricity or electricity rates? Like, you're convinced they control everything about gasoline and you're perfectly happy to keep gas? If one man (POTUS) can say the word and cause gas price fluctuations of 100% or more, why in the world would you want to stay on that system? Why not buy an EV, some solar panels and batteries and you'll never have to worry about government involvement in your transportation costs again. I get the feeling it's not about that though. It's about political talking points and "my side is way better than your side."

"grid will expand" how, do you know how long it takes to build a coal or nuclear plant?
The math is horrific at .32 a kwh. We pay over .20 right now in the northeast. The price of fuel now is artificially inflated due to Biden's executive orders. An efficient ICE car is way more economical but for government intervention.
Buy an EV and solar panels. Spoken like a true woke elitist. Get your head out of your ass. Aside from the many years it would take to see a return on that investment, 64% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. I can buy fuel at $100 a gallon and it wont affect my lifestyle one bit. This is not the case for most people. They cant pay their mortgage, rent or grocery bills. The fact that you dont get that is exactly the problem. The government should stop subsidizing people buying 50k+ cars. Stop interfering with the free market.

 

[sdkid]

Sure they happen, and the grid will expand to handle it. It won't happen overnight, just like 100% of car buyers won't buy EVs overnight. It'll take years and years to transition, and in that time, the grid will adapt.

How does the math work at $0.32/kwh? Still cheaper than gas at it's current price. But hey, if you don't see the savings in an EV, don't buy one. Literally nobody is trying to force EVs on you. Go buy a Suburban if you want. Nobody cares.

And why all the concern about government controlling electricity or electricity rates? Like, you're convinced they control everything about gasoline and you're perfectly happy to keep gas? If one man (POTUS) can say the word and cause gas price fluctuations of 100% or more, why in the world would you want to stay on that system? Why not buy an EV, some solar panels and batteries and you'll never have to worry about government involvement in your transportation costs again. I get the feeling it's not about that though. It's about political talking points and "my side is way better than your side."

The post of yours which I quoted was at-best dismissive and effectively stated that since it was outside YOUR experience, it must not be happening anywhere. You went on to imply that those concerned about these non-events must be deluded with conspiracy theories. It's not a conspiracy, or even theoretical. Utility control of major systems in your home is very real. I'm not sure why you think EV charging would be exempt from that kind of technology.

As for the idea that "the grid will adapt"... What is the plan? As Fenderman noted, you don't adapt AFTER the need. California took down a nuclear power plant and is phasing in a ban on power produced from "non-renewable resources", which makes rolling blackouts and utility-controlled shutdowns of power equipment even more likely.

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

Oil drop a lot this week. The whole world economy is not really doing well, and the high oil price is mainly because of the flood money during the covid.
So stock market and coins will do bad this year when Federal Reserve increase the interest.

 

[qflyer]

The post of yours which I quoted was at-best dismissive and effectively stated that since it was outside YOUR experience, it must not be happening anywhere. You went on to imply that those concerned about these non-events must be deluded with conspiracy theories. It's not a conspiracy, or even theoretical. Utility control of major systems in your home is very real. I'm not sure why you think EV charging would be exempt from that kind of technology.

As for the idea that "the grid will adapt"... What is the plan? As Fenderman noted, you don't adapt AFTER the need. California took down a nuclear power plant and is phasing in a ban on power produced from "non-renewable resources", which makes rolling blackouts and utility-controlled shutdowns of power equipment even more likely.

I've already posted one study as to grid capacity and its ability to handle the added load of EVs. Scroll up a bit and you'll see it. And I did admit it was happening. They've been happening in California for decades, you know, before electric vehicles came along. Population has increased, electricity demands have increased, etc, and the grid is still hanging in there because it's growing as well. It's going to be okay.

But if you don't think so, keep buying gas cars. They're not going anywhere anytime soon. And it's kind of entertaining to see the conspiracies about gas prices.

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

China maybe have the most e-cars in the world, electricity is cheap, but one day all people use e-cars, where to generate the power？there has badly power lack of last summer, they try to meet Joe's 0 target and make some deals, factories shut down, lots of people no work. Lastly They build lots of coal power generation, and dig out more coal.
They try to force people drop the oil car, in Tibet or Xinjiang no one drive e-cars, lots of mountains there and very cold, lack of oxygen，some place even no huaman being looks like Toyota can do good great there.

A friend drive Land Crusier to Tibet last week. e-Car can't go there. City driving the e-car not bad. But a little longer trip will be hard.


View attachment 1f7850bc28111cb5c3a452bd461814b5.mp4

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

In Shanghai or Beijing, people have to wait 15-20 years to get a oil license plate, but if you want to buy a e-car, very easy to get it.
As i know shanghai License plate have to cost 20000usd to buy one. Lol. Buy a tesla or other e-cars no need to pay extra. All are business...

 

[sdkid]

I've already posted one study as to grid capacity and its ability to handle the added load of EVs. Scroll up a bit and you'll see it. And I did admit it was happening. They've been happening in California for decades, you know, before electric vehicles came along. Population has increased, electricity demands have increased, etc, and the grid is still hanging in there because it's growing as well. It's going to be okay.

But if you don't think so, keep buying gas cars. They're not going anywhere anytime soon. And it's kind of entertaining to see the conspiracies about gas prices.

So blackouts have been happening, but the grid is fine and can handle millions of electric vehicle charging stations? Is that what you're saying? Really?
There are too many in the public who just think power is magical and is just "there".

BTW-- What conspiracies about gas prices? I posted one several pages back that I came across from some liberal nut on Twitter saying oil companies are doing this on purpose to alter the elections of '22 and '24. Those conspiracies?? I think gas price is a function of supply and demand-- or the perception thereof. When a president comes in and immediately engages in multiple different policy decisions that effectively restrict domestic supply, guess what happens?

I think this was better:

Trump Just Achieved What Every President Since Nixon Had Promised: Energy Independence

Last week, the U.S. exported more oil than we imported, achieving energy independence for the first time in 70-plus years. It happened not because of decades of federal "energy policies," but despite them.

www.investors.com

 

[sebastiantombs]

I worked in the major construction industry for a number of years. We built nuclear and co-gen stations. As time went by, nucs were no longer built. Co-gens got a lot bigger, both in capacity and numbers, but another anomaly cropped up. From proposal to permitting times increased dramatically. Then the actual construction times started to increase as well due to additional permitting requirements due to changes in laws being applied retroactively. At best, today, it's about a ten to fifteen year process to get a power plant built. The same thing applies to high lines for transmission, whether upgrading or installing new ones. The grid, at the moment, is actually pretty fragile and getting more fragile as the overall loads increase.

All of this may not effect people with enough money, like Obummer, to bury a 2500 gallon natural gas tank to run a large enough generator for a month or two at a time, but the rest of us are being stuck with the end of a very short stick.