Got an installer quote - recommending Lorex

denovo

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We moved and wife wanted to get cameras. I had a local installer come by and give a quote. He is recommending 10 cameras plus a doorbell.

LABOR: $4400
MATERIALS: $3300

I asked models and was provided
N4K3-1610WD-2
B451AJD-E
HDD4TB-D

Amy thoughts about Lorex? We are NOT tech savvy and want something that is easy to use, especially on mobile

I beleive the guy is open to installing anything I would provide as well.

Appreciate any input Thanks.
 

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wittaj

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He really marked up the materials!!! Cameras and NVR are about $1,000; $150 for the doorbell, and who knows what kind of HDD but say $200 tops.

When an installer is wanting to put in something you buy at Costco, they will leave everything on default settings and are looking to make a quick buck. Ask him if he will dial the camera parameters in to each field of view for day and night settings or if he just hangs them up and calls them good.

Lorex is a consumer based water down version made by Dahua.

Lorex uses less than ideal MP/sensor ratios and cheaper materials.

For example, these are 8MP (4K) cameras put on a sensor designed for 2MP.

It will be dark at night and basically useless. A 2MP will kick its butt all night long.

Many people here started with Lorex and quickly (within a year or two) started to upgrade to better cameras. As someone says here, better to buy once, cry once than to spend this kinda money and start replacing within a year because it doesn't perform.

My 2MP cameras outperform my neighbors 4K (8MP) cameras....why....because they are both on the same size sensor.

When we had a thief come thru here and get into a lot of cars, the police couldn't use one video or photo from anyone's system but mine. Not even my other neighbors $1,300 4k Lorex system from Costco provided useful info - the cams just didn't cut it at night. His system wasn't even a year old and after that event has started replacing with cameras purchased from @EMPIRETECANDY here based on my recommendation and seeing my results. He is still shocked a 2MP camera performs better than his 4k cameras... It is all about the amount of light needed and getting the right camera for the right location.

The NVRs from the box units like a Amcrest and Lorex cap out incoming bandwidth (which impacts the resolution and FPS of the cameras). The Lorex and Amcrest NVR maxes out at 80Mbps and truly only one or a couple cameras that will display 4K. My neighbor with his 4k Lorex Costco system was limited to that and he is all upset it isn't 4K for all eight channels and he was capped out at 4096 bitrate on each camera so it was a pixelated mess.

Bandwidth limitations are how much data can pass from all the cameras into the NVR and back out. Resolution, FPS, and bitrate determine the Mbps and a 4k camera needs more than 4096 bitrate but because the NVR couldn't handle it, even though he set 8192 in the camera, the NVR cut it half.


If you all you care about is to look around and see some things, but not be able to IDENTIFY, then that is probably an OK system. But most want to be able to IDENTIFY when a perp comes by.

Vary rarely does having 10 of the same fixed lens camera work.

Take a look at this thread. It will help bring you up to speed on what is out there and what to look for.

You need to decide what your goals are of the system and then get the correct cameras for that situation. Most of us have a mix of varifocal, fixed lens, PTZ, etc.

 
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As far as the hardware is concerned, a quick internet search yields the following:

B451AJD is a doorbell cam on Amazon for $150.

HDD4TB-D is a4TB hard drive. Megadepot has it for $167.

N4K3-1610WD-2 is a kit of 10 cams and an NVR. On Amazon for $1180.

So the hardware is about $1500.

The cams are wide-angle 2.8mm F2.0 fixed lens on an 8MP (4K) 1/2.7:" CMOS. This will not get you any good shots in low light.

I imagine that from the pic you posted that all of those cams are to be placed on the eaves pointed int he directions shown. You will almost be sure to get no useable face shots from anyone more than say 8 feet from the cams.
 

IAmATeaf

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Without specifics in the cable runs, from what you’ve posted the guy is basically taking the piss as far as labour costs go too. I’d personally tell him to take a running jump.

As suggested make sure you get exacts and specifics on exactly what he will do in terms of the labour costs.
 

Flintstone61

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The OP want's it easy for his wife and the mobile App, I get it.
See if you can get the install done with the Nvr, but with an option to buy a few different cams more suited to the job in key places. Like some varifocal lensed cams to tweak the facial regocnition distances. and get better low light captures.
A lot of us started out with " kits" and then spent more money later to bring the whole thing up to snuff.
At least you'll get your cable runs installed. and a Doorbell. maybe switch out some cams your self later. ???

Running a business ain't cheap, you gotta mark up your product, if not, then you gotta charge more for labor.
Camus boiler in Canada get a $1200 for a god damn daughter board to run the boiler. what a crock.
Fucking Dutch boy paint is now $45 a gallon at Menards. wtf.
 

denovo

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He really marked up the materials!!! Cameras and NVR are about $1,000; $150 for the doorbell, and who knows what kind of HDD but say $200 tops.

When an installer is wanting to put in something you buy at Costco, they will leave everything on default settings and are looking to make a quick buck. Ask him if he will dial the camera parameters in to each field of view for day and night settings or if he just hangs them up and calls them good.

Lorex is a consumer based water down version made by Dahua.

Lorex uses less than ideal MP/sensor ratios and cheaper materials.

For example, these are 8MP (4K) cameras put on a sensor designed for 2MP.

It will be dark at night and basically useless. A 2MP will kick its butt all night long.

Many people here started with Lorex and quickly (within a year or two) started to upgrade to better cameras. As someone says here, better to buy once, cry once than to spend this kinda money and start replacing within a year because it doesn't perform.

My 2MP cameras outperform my neighbors 4K (8MP) cameras....why....because they are both on the same size sensor.

When we had a thief come thru here and get into a lot of cars, the police couldn't use one video or photo from anyone's system but mine. Not even my other neighbors $1,300 4k Lorex system from Costco provided useful info - the cams just didn't cut it at night. His system wasn't even a year old and after that event has started replacing with cameras purchased from @EMPIRETECANDY here based on my recommendation and seeing my results. He is still shocked a 2MP camera performs better than his 4k cameras... It is all about the amount of light needed and getting the right camera for the right location.

The NVRs from the box units like a Amcrest and Lorex cap out incoming bandwidth (which impacts the resolution and FPS of the cameras). The Lorex and Amcrest NVR maxes out at 80Mbps and truly only one or a couple cameras that will display 4K. My neighbor with his 4k Lorex Costco system was limited to that and he is all upset it isn't 4K for all eight channels and he was capped out at 4096 bitrate on each camera so it was a pixelated mess.

Bandwidth limitations are how much data can pass from all the cameras into the NVR and back out. Resolution, FPS, and bitrate determine the Mbps and a 4k camera needs more than 4096 bitrate but because the NVR couldn't handle it, even though he set 8192 in the camera, the NVR cut it half.


If you all you care about is to look around and see some things, but not be able to IDENTIFY, then that is probably an OK system. But most want to be able to IDENTIFY when a perp comes by.

Vary rarely does having 10 of the same fixed lens camera work.

Take a look at this thread. It will help bring you up to speed on what is out there and what to look for.

You need to decide what your goals are of the system and then get the correct cameras for that situation. Most of us have a mix of varifocal, fixed lens, PTZ, etc.



Thank you for chiming in. I believe the installer is okay with swapping out equipment.

I reviewed your post. How does ones decide which camera to put where?

For example your post reads "5241-Z12E - varifocal up to 64mm - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)." Does that mean this camera will not function well if someone is closer at like 10 feet of it?



So far I am thinking below:

5441F-AS-E2 (AKA Boobie cam) - front door
5241-Z12E - over the front left corner of the house angled towards the driveway

The other locations I am not too sure about

Not too sure about which doorbell to get either

I would especially like to know where to put the PTZ



I see Blue Iris is a big hit here for good reasons. Are there any forum recommended NVRs?
 

denovo

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As far as the hardware is concerned, a quick internet search yields the following:

B451AJD is a doorbell cam on Amazon for $150.

HDD4TB-D is a4TB hard drive. Megadepot has it for $167.

N4K3-1610WD-2 is a kit of 10 cams and an NVR. On Amazon for $1180.

So the hardware is about $1500.

The cams are wide-angle 2.8mm F2.0 fixed lens on an 8MP (4K) 1/2.7:" CMOS. This will not get you any good shots in low light.

I imagine that from the pic you posted that all of those cams are to be placed on the eaves pointed int he directions shown. You will almost be sure to get no useable face shots from anyone more than say 8 feet from the cams.

The guy recommended placing them high up ie almost one or two stories up. He plans to run CAT 6 from soffit through the attic to a room/office inside for each camera
 

wittaj

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Sure the 5241-Z12E can be set to see something closer, but it's strength is at distance. There are other cameras for 10 feet IDENTIFY purposes. But if you set it up to have a field of view out at 100 feet, then depending on height of camera you may not even be in field of view at 10 feet or if you are it will be blurry.

The Dahua 52XX series NVR is the preferred NVR choice.

Sticking those Lorex on 2nd floor will be useless (or any fixed lens). The IDENTIFY distance is 10-15 feet and all of that is lost in the vertical direction. All you will get are top of heads and hoodies.

Cameras need to be 7 feet or lower. A varifocal zoomed in at a further out distance say past 60 feet are ok on 2nd story. But a 2.8 or 3.6mm lens camera on 2nd floor is only good for overview.
 

Timokreon

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I've gone the Lorex route, and I ended up replacing every Lorex camera and NVR with all Dahua from @EMPIRETECANDY .
Dahua has an app for your phone which you can view live camera. Also can set up things to send pictures if anyone comes to your door, etc.. for example, straight to your e-mail. I have mine set that way just for a heads up that someone is at the door, yard, etc..

I would get quotes from electrical contractors near you, for low voltage runs. If you buy everything, they'll be more than happy to charge you just for the cable runs.

However, before buying everything, I'd really look at buying just one vari-focal camera, get 100' or 200' of cable (can be the kind that is already pre-made) and take that camera around the exterior of the house and see what things look like.
It's amazing what you think what things look like, and then what they actually look like through a camera at different heights, angles, etc... After you see how things look, THEN get the quote for the low voltage guy...
If you have the extra money, I would pull 2 runs to each location, with extra cable on both ends in case you want to add extra cameras, move them around a bit, etc..

Don't be like me, and countless others. Do it right the first time...

Best of luck
 

Timokreon

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Great ideas @Timokreon

Any particular camera you recommend for the varifocal experiment?
Yes, that 5442 varifocal that looney linked is probably the best camera for that at the moment.
Unless you want to start getting into capturing license plates, PTZ's etc.. lol
 

denovo

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Yes, that 5442 varifocal that looney linked is probably the best camera for that at the moment.
Unless you want to start getting into capturing license plates, PTZ's etc.. lol
Those PTZ are amazing lol

I would like a license plate reader for sure. I have a long driveway and sometimes I see vehicles enter, although just a little, and then back out
 

mat200

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We moved and wife wanted to get cameras. I had a local installer come by and give a quote. He is recommending 10 cameras plus a doorbell.

LABOR: $4400
MATERIALS: $3300

I asked models and was provided
N4K3-1610WD-2
B451AJD-E
HDD4TB-D

Amy thoughts about Lorex? We are NOT tech savvy and want something that is easy to use, especially on mobile

I beleive the guy is open to installing anything I would provide as well.

Appreciate any input Thanks.
As far as the hardware is concerned, a quick internet search yields the following:

B451AJD is a doorbell cam on Amazon for $150.

HDD4TB-D is a4TB hard drive. Megadepot has it for $167.

N4K3-1610WD-2 is a kit of 10 cams and an NVR. On Amazon for $1180.

So the hardware is about $1500.

The cams are wide-angle 2.8mm F2.0 fixed lens on an 8MP (4K) 1/2.7:" CMOS. This will not get you any good shots in low light.

I imagine that from the pic you posted that all of those cams are to be placed on the eaves pointed int he directions shown. You will almost be sure to get no useable face shots from anyone more than say 8 feet from the cams.

I asked models and was provided
N4K3-1610WD-2
B451AJD-E
HDD4TB-D


B451AJD is a doorbell cam on Amazon for $150.
HDD4TB-D is a4TB hard drive. Megadepot has it for $167.
N4K3-1610WD-2 is a kit of 10 cams and an NVR. On Amazon for $1180.
So the hardware is about $1500.

The cams are wide-angle 2.8mm F2.0 fixed lens on an 8MP (4K) 1/2.7:" CMOS. This will not get you any good shots in low light.



@denovo .. @samplenhold noted the 1/2.7" sensor in those cameras, and you noted that the installer wants to install these 2 stories up .. this would not be a recommended setup by most everyone here.

Lorex recently has mostly smaller sensor model cameras, so I would avoid them as a general rule and go with better model Dahua OEM ( or Hikvision OEM ) cameras ..

Also you really want to mount the cameras lower, and probably best at this time to just get one good varifocal camera to play with before you run lines ..






FYI - adding the appropriate model information here for future reference

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You have been given quite a lot of good feedback, including discussions about mounting height, testing positions with a varifocal, and how the hardware you listed will probably not give you good results.

I know it is hard to not just jump in and buy everything and have it installed. But so many folks that have come here asking for help AFTER they did just that have realized that starting slow would have been better and they would have saved time and money.

Realize that mounting cams too high will be just fine for an overview but will only give you good shots of the top of someone's head, not their face.

Angle of attack.jpg

Using the 5442 varifocal cam on a test rig can give you a lot of information on how a specific mounting position will perform. Set it there and walk it day and nighttime. Can you see the face well enough for someone who does not know you to ID you? That is the point of cams for IDing, not for general overview.

Test Rig.JPG

See these threads for insight on overview type positions versus cams designed to capture faces. These also cover cam placement and overlap of views.



 
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