Here is a snapshot from tonight. Right now I am trying to fine tune the Max Shutter, Max Gain and the Blur-Noise Trade-Off slider. Not enough people walking by to check my adjustments. 
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I Ordered an Axis Communications Axis Q1808-LE Camera
- Thread starter Parley
- Start date
I’m currently trying the CamStreamer service on my P1468-LE for an upcoming project. I’m only using it for their Timelapse service but so far it’s working pretty well, I don’t have any complaints.
I haven’t tried any of the other CamStreamer apps or the app that allows you to stream directly to YouTube.
Success!!! The White Light turned off this morning right on time. The only thing left to do is fine tune it. THANK YOU to all of you who helped me out on this journey. As I have stated before this camera tunes a little different than what I am used to with the Hikvision and Dahua cameras. One more thing. This varifocal camera is rated 12mm to 48mm with the 12mm having a 90-degree field of view. I thought "wow" that is great, maybe I only need this one camera for the area that I want to cover. Well in reality, based on other cameras that I have, that 12mm is a lot closer to 4mm. Hence, the 90-degree field of view and yes, I do need two cameras to cover the area. I will recheck the distance, but I believe that the distance from the camera to the sidewalk is in the 50' range. That is another reason I do not think the 48mm is really 48 mm based on the other cameras that I have. In retrospect maybe I should have bought the higher 50-150mm version of this camera and set it at 50mm.
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So even high end Axis plays games with their numbers too.....
How exactly are they, "playing games with their numbers"? The field of view is clearly listed on their website and datasheet. In addition, if you use the Axis site designer and input a google map image, you'll be able to see field of view and DORI distance at whatever zoom level you choose.
On top of that, the product page describes this cameras as having a wide lens for open area surveillance. I'm not sure how you come up with that conclusion?
All hik and Dahua do those games too…
5442 ZE is not 2.8-12mm, more 3.0 - 7.8 (only 2.5x zoom range)
5442 Z4e is not 8-32mm, more 8-24mm (only 3x zoom range)
There is small gap 7.8-8.0 between end of ZE and start of Z4E.
What part of he said the 12mm focal length field of view is closer to a 4mm focal length field of view don't you understand?
And then @steve1225 pointed out in the post above:
All hik and Dahua do those games too…
5442 ZE is not 2.8-12mm, more 3.0 - 7.8 (only 2.5x zoom range)
5442 Z4e is not 8-32mm, more 8-24mm (only 3x zoom range)
So clearly I am not the only one that thinks this.
Please prove our logic wrong....
As taken out of section 3.2.1 of the Field of View in the Axis Network guide.
A consideration to take into account when selecting a camera is the field of view required; that
is, the area of coverage and the degree of detail to be viewed. The field of view is determined by
the focal length of the lens and the size of the image sensor; both are specified in a network
camera’s datasheet.
A len’s focal length is defined as the distance between the entrance lens (or a specific point in
a complicated lens assembly) and the point where all the light rays converge to a point (normally the camera’s image sensor). The longer the focal length, the narrower the field of view
This camera has a 10MP sensor with a 4:3 ratio. The field of view is determined by the size of the image sensor, focal length and distance between the lens and image sensor. So with that being said. I clearly understood what you and @steve1225 said, however it looks like you don't understand how the field of view is determined.. The other cameras you guys have reference have different image sensors and different lenes so I'm not sure why you're using that as a comparison. So again, you're making a claim that Axis is playing games with their number.. What should their numbers be then? What's the distance between the lens and image sensor in the Q1808? Show me how you would come to your conclusion. Comparing this camera against a Dahua camera with a completely different image sensor and lens does not count LOL.
@wittaj this is the 2nd or 3rd time you've posted incorrect and misleading information about Axis cameras on this forum. I don't blindly follow Axis cameras and there are plenty of things I don't like about them but if you're going to make a post criticizing them, at least do the research first to verify that information is correct. It's getting old having to correct your information. I joined this forum to learn from other members and share my knowledge to help the community. It doesn't benefit anyone when incorrect information is posted.
Yes, the horizontal/vertical Field of View (FoV) should be the main factor when choosing camera optics.
It determines everything...
But we talk about Focal length given by CCTV manufactures - which is only illustrative and very often faked.
In case HIK / Dahua it's not real - it's recalculated to one "unified" sensor size (something 1/10 Full Size sensor).
and it's only to give You IDEA about lens specification. Even for the same sensors...
When You work a lot with HIK / Dahua cams, you get used to the fact that a 2.8mm camera has 110-115 degrees horizontal FoV, a 3.6mm has 88-90 degrees horizontal FoV etc..
But even in HIK / Dahua world those specs not always meet:
5442-ASE with 1/1.8" sensor have horizontal FoV: 112 for 2.8mm and 88 for 3.6mm
3449-AS-PV-PRO (TIOC-PRO) with the same 1/1.8" sensor: 111 for 2.8mm, 95 for 3.6mm
2.8mm on both cams are almost identical, 3.6mm is very different (88 vs 95)..
Also ranges in varifocals are very faked..
5442 ZE 2.8-12mm should have 4.2x zoom range - is 2.5-2.6...
5442 Z4E 8-32mm should have 4x zoom range - is 3.0
Both cams should overlap (ZE ends at 12mm, Z4E starts at 8mm - bo they don't - there is gap between max zoom on ZE and min zoom on Z4E)..
FoV data on all those cams confirms that very well.
AXIS is using different focal length scale.
And @Parley compares zoom ranges to HIK / Dahua varifocals ones.
And they are very different (max horizontal FoV on Axis is 90 degrees, on most Dahua / HIK varifocals is more like 110-115 degrees)..
Easy @wittaj
You forgot that 2.8mm focal length for one sensor size if different that 2.8mm focal length for different sensor size..
Or it gives different Field of View...
HIK / Dahua have / are using mostly unified VIRTUAL focal lengths, which are NOT REAL..
They are RECALCULATED for some VIRTUAL sensor, which don't exists..
they are looking more like 1/10 of focal length used for Full Frame analog / DSLR cameras...
this way You can compare camera with 1/2.8" sensor to camera with 1/1.8" sensor to camera with 1/1.2" sensor by using those VIRTUAL UNIFIED focal lengths..
In real world this is NOT TRUE...
Axis focal length data is more real to sensor size which they use in this model.
You can compare HIK / Dahua focal lengths, but not Axis ones - because they are calculated in different way..
So Axis REAL 12mm is more like Dahua/HIK VIRTUAL / UNIFIED 3.6mm
And this is only true for this specified Axis model with this specified sensor size/ratio..
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I'm not disagreeing with you in regards to the Hik/Dahua field of view and yes I agree the Axis field of view is different when compared to Hik/Dahua. I'm only contesting the statement that Axis "plays games with their numbers" as I don't see any evidence to suggest that. I also can't think of a reason of how or why that would benefit them.
OK.. that's true.. they don't play games - simply they use different system..
We are all here to learn and share, and I am clearly not the only one that posts what you call incorrect or misleading information (which I do not think I do) - do you attack all of them also?
Most here will say my reputation as a DIYer in this space on this forum is outstanding. I have helped a lot of people.
We have people here that posts blatant lies. I do not do that.
Perception is reality. And look how many come here complaining about field of view not being what they thought based on the focal length of the camera.
The perception is these manufacturers play games with focal lengths and LUX ratings (I am not the only one that says this either).
Even with the same camera model LOL. Heck even taking the 5442 6mm fixed lens and setting up the 5442-ZE to the equivalent 6mm and you will find the field of view is different for both. The 5442-ZE had to be set to a 9mm equivalent to get the same field of view as the 5442 6mm fixed lens as pointed out in this thread that I frequently point to for people asking about how to calculate a field of view.
Right or wrong, the average person is using a focal length as a guide as to the field of view dimensions. They don't care about the differences in sensor size and all that jazz that we know goes into calculating the focal length.
And that is EXACTLY what is happening with this thread where @Parley was expecting a certain field of view based on the focal lengths of cameras he has and now wishes he had gone up a set of focal lengths based on his experiences with a different brand.
@steve1225 said it best above: "OK.. that's true.. they don't play games - simply they use different system..."
So let's change my "they don't play games" to "they use a different system" - the end result is the same to the average person like @Parley - he has a Dahua 12mm camera and wanted to try an Axis and finds that 12mm with Axis is closer to 4mm with Dahua, which resulted in purchasing the wrong camera. To the average person that is considered playing games with focal lengths (even if it isn't and is based on a different system)....
Switching topics....I once posted that Internet Explorer is the best browser for these types of cameras and pointed out that even on the AXIS website it mentions that for some of their systems. I just pulled up the website and it still says that for Axis Media Control.....
Your panties got all in a wad when I said that and I told you that if that is incorrect then use your connections with Axis to get them to scrub that from their website then - which they haven't. So the average person may still assume that is correct when they are doing research....
Regardless, even if Axis has fixed the issue that is prone to other vendors and their cameras can work properly with other browsers, they say Explorer is still a supported browser on their website. If it can work with Internet Explorer, then to those of us that have multiple brands of cameras, it makes sense to use one browser for all and not oh this camera works best with this browser and that camera works best with another browser.
And using ONE browser regardless of camera brand for the average homeowner that may only get into the camera GUI once or twice a year makes sense. For someone like you that may be in a GUI much more, the answer may be different.
But since you educated me on YOUR experiences with AXIS and that they truly work with other web browsers, prove to me where I made that statement countless times about Explorer after our last discussion about this - you won't - you know why - because I learned from YOU and quit saying Axis works best with Explorer...
Will I get an apology.....I admitted I learned and changed what and how I say something that you educated me on....same with this topic....
After all isn't that the value of a forum to learn and share with others.....
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I don't read every thread or every post on this forum so I don't always see incorrect or misleading information. I'm not attacking you. I felt my post was proportionate to your response, "What part of he said the 12mm focal length field of view is closer to a 4mm focal length field of view don't you understand?". Also, I don't think your lying or purposely posting the incorrect information. I will admit, the first time I purchased an Axis camera (before my class) I purchased it based off of the lens and not the field of view and I was surprised when it didn't have the FOV I expected. Perhaps we should be teaching members of this forum to use the FOV instead of the lens to make a determination.
Yes, Dahua and Hikvision may have inconsistent numbers regarding FOV and LUX ratings. However, I've found that Axis appears to be pretty consistent.
I also disagree with your statement " To the average person that is considered playing games with focal lengths (even if it isn't and is based on a different system)....". It's very clearly stated on the spec sheets what the FOV is. You can also use site designer and use a 3D model of the FOV. I don't see how the average person would make that assumption. When I made that mistake, I quickly realized that I had made a mistake in using the lens instead of the FOV as a factor.
I thought I was clear on the internet explorer topic (Axis Media Control), I guess not. Initially you stated that Axis recommends using IE for their cameras which I proved you wrong. They simply stated they recommended using the Axis Media Control plugin IF IE was going to be used. They did not state they recommend IE for use with their cameras. Also, the Axis Media Control plugin has not been updated in almost 4 years. Anything that Axis supports receives regular updates to maintain cybersecurity compliance. Go to the Axis Media Control page on their website and look at "Compatible Products".. There isn't any. The Axis Media Control plugin is simply on their website so users who have old and outdated Axis cameras can still use them. I did not contact Axis asking them to remove the IE plugin because I did not think it was necessary. Why would I want them to remove something that an end user might need? If you can get the Axis Media Control plugin to work with new cameras on IE, that's great. But I don't see a reason to use IE when Chrome, Edge and Firefox work perfectly. As stated in the other thread, Axis cameras going back at least 10 years will work with Chrome. Perhaps they should put an EOL tag on top of the Axis Media Control page but I'm not going to spend my time trying to convince them of that.
I'm sorry if I came off too harsh, but it felt like you took the first shot (your post replying to me regarding Axis playing games) and I was defending myself. No one knows everything and we can learn from each other and our mistakes. I make plenty of them.
I'm glad the white light is working for you now. I'm curious what kind of performance you can push out of it with the higher wattage security lighting.
The downside to the 50-150mm variant of Q1808-LE is that it does not come with white lights (only has IR) and that aperture starts at F4.0 at the 50mm zoom level. I'm not too sure how well it'll work in low light.
The Q1806-LE has a 4.3mm- 138mm lens but the field of FOV starts at 60 degrees with an aperture of F1.4. This camera is designed and optimized for long range but it also only has IR and no white lights. Based on the spec's I'd say the Q1806-LE would be the better choice but since I haven't tested it yet, I can't be sure.
I did not know that about the "The downside to the 50-150mm variant of Q1808-LE". So, in the end this one may work out just fine for me. I have not installed the 120 watt bulb yet. I am not sure I need it with the camera light doing its job. One more thing from last night. I had IR cut-filter set on auto. The dark/bright slider was more to the bright side and the IR cut filter engaged. At that point the picture went to black and white and the White Light on the camera turned off. So, I moved the slider all the way to dark and turned the White Light back on. That seems to have worked. So, I should be good to go as the White Light shut off the next morning on schedule.
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That's the exact camera I'm looking at. Did you try it with the Camstreamer/Timelapse 30 day trial first? For the stream to youtube, I wonder what settings are available. Mostly, will it stream 4K60p at 40Mb/s? The reason I'm curious about the settings is because that resolution at that bitrate is pretty taxing on a desktop computer to maintain, so I have my doubts that a camera can do it.
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Yeah, I'm currently using the Timelapse 30 day free trial. I'm not sure what settings are available to stream to YouTube as I imagine that would be configured within the Camstreamer app. The P1468-LE uses variable bitrate and has technology to keep the bitrate low while maintaining image quality. My P1468-LE uses between 1.5-16Mb/s depending on how busy the scene is and time of day. I could increase the bitrate to go beyond 40Mb/s by turning off Zipstream and compression but I don't see a huge benefit to that as the image is pretty good with it on.
Cool. I'm kind of a pixel snob. I hate it when the sky gets blocky and pixelated because it thinks it's all the same color with no movement (when there is high compression). I understand that reducing compression makes the file sizes HUGE, but I have terabytes and terabytes of storage and am looking for really good video quality. It's really the only reason I'm willing to look at a $1200 camera.