Liberty Safes... Are They Safe? (The "Government Backdoors" Concern) : DeviantOllam

[Mike A.]

Yeah, they're done.

 

[mat200]

 

[samplenhold]

Welp, I’m seeing reports that they have back up combinations for manual S&G locks as well?

As far as that is concerned, I would imagine that all they really need is to keep track of the original code cross-referenced to the serial number. I doubt that most folks change the numbers.

I have two AmSec and one Champion safe and they all have S&G manual combination locks. Of course, when I bought these years ago, I faithfully registered them with the respective companies. Well I have changed addresses since then but I am sure they could still find the registrations. If they kept a record of the combination for the serial number, then that is all that is needed.

All three safes have nothing in their manuals on how to change the combinations. Internet search does show you how, but you need a tool. I suppose I could get a locksmith to come in and do it.

 

[prsmith777]

 

[mat200]

Taking their customer's money to give to politicians who want to ban firearms ..

Now Liberty Safe busted sending money to anti-gun candidates
Legally Armed America

 

[The Automation Guy]

I have no love for Liberty Safe. I think what they did was pretty stupid and should have said they wouldn't provide any information without a subpoena.

That being said, none of these "home safes" are secure or fireproof. The law enforcement agency could have just as easily broken into the safe in about 5 minutes with the right tools. So while I completely agree with people freaking out about Liberty Safe's eagerness to provide the information, I also have to laugh when those people say how much less secure those safes are because there is a "master list" of codes that could be leaked in a hack, etc. Your home safe is no less secure if the entire world knows your combination because the safe isn't very secure in the first place!

 

[Keizer]

Thank God I never bought a Liberty safe. It's getting to the point where only the thoughts in your head are safe.

 

[Starglow]

Thank God I never bought a Liberty safe. It's getting to the point where only the thoughts in your head are safe.

Nope.....time for the Vulcan mind meld.

 

[bigredfish]

I have no love for Liberty Safe. I think what they did was pretty stupid and should have said they wouldn't provide any information without a subpoena.

That being said, none of these "home safes" are secure or fireproof. The law enforcement agency could have just as easily broken into the safe in about 5 minutes with the right tools. So while I completely agree with people freaking out about Liberty Safe's eagerness to provide the information, I also have to laugh when those people say how much less secure those safes are because there is a "master list" of codes that could be leaked in a hack, etc. Your home safe is no less secure if the entire world knows your combination because the safe isn't very secure in the first place!

True when we’re talking about government actors wanting inside of it. But I think most buy a safe to A) keep valuables away from most burglars who 90%+ of the time use brute force and pry bars and while that might work, time is not their friend , and B) to help protect valuables in case of fire.

For those two purposes they can work quite well.

Note that much like cameras, not all safes are the same. There is a very wide range of price and protection. A good one will cost you $4000-$10,000

 

[samplenhold]

But I think most buy a safe to A) keep valuables away from most burglars who 90%+ of the time use brute force and pry bars and while that might work, time is not their friend , and B) to help protect valuables in case of fire.

And I would add C) to keep non-burglarers away from whatever you put in the safe. Like kids, kid's friends, grandkids, party goers, people in your house to do repairs or cleaning, spouses.

When I was living in Nigeria, we had a safe. Not because there was a problem with burglaries, but because the culture there basically states if you do not lock something up, then you really do not care if it is taken. So it is fair game.

 

[mat200]

FWIW - in the USA .. if the Government breaks into the safe, there are now damages to the owner of the safe .. without damages, you can not get "standing" in court .. so there is something to be said of forcing someone to "break-in" vs "walk-in"

 

[The Automation Guy]

FWIW - in the USA .. if the Government breaks into the safe, there are now damages to the owner of the safe .. without damages, you can not get "standing" in court .. so there is something to be said of forcing someone to "break-in" vs "walk-in"

I'm not an attorney, EDIT - but apparently I am an idiot . Everything said after this is likely incorrect) but I would have to assume that if the law enforcement agency asked the individual for the code/combination to the safe so they could conduct their search (which was authorized by a legitimate search warrant and covered the contents of said safe) and they refused to provide it or provided an incorrect number, the government wouldn't be responsible for any damages to the safe from that point on.

 

[mat200]

I'm not an attorney, but I would have to assume that if the law enforcement agency asked the individual for the code/combination to the safe so they could conduct their search (which was authorized by a legitimate search warrant and covered the contents of said safe) and they refused to provide it or provided an incorrect number, the government wouldn't be responsible for any damages to the safe from that point on.

That is what the DOJ would argue .. and the Defense Attorney would argue against that logic ..

Remember the 5th amendment protects what is in your mind .. so you are NOT compelled to give up the combo .. and the Government claiming you should have given up your 5th amendment is as offensive to those who believe in liberty as is giving up your 1st, 2nd, 4th amendment rights ..

as is right now, depending on the Judge and Jury I could see it land either way .. depends .. DOJ and FBI have gotten away with many things that I could not have imagined in the past ..

ref:
In Doe v. United States, the United States Supreme Court held that a combination to a wall safe is considered testimonial because recalling the passcode forces a defendant to reveal a product of his mind.

 

[The Automation Guy]

That is what the DOJ would argue .. and the Defense Attorney would argue against that logic ..

Remember the 5th amendment protects what is in your mind .. so you are NOT compelled to give up the combo .. and the Government claiming you should have given up your 5th amendment is as offensive to those who believe in liberty as is giving up your 1st, 2nd, 4th amendment rights ..

as is right now, depending on the Judge and Jury I could see it land either way .. depends .. DOJ and FBI have gotten away with many things that I could not have imagined in the past ..

ref:
In Doe v. United States, the United States Supreme Court held that a combination to a wall safe is considered testimonial because recalling the passcode forces a defendant to reveal a product of his mind.

You are 100% correct that a person would not be required to provide that information. A finger print, yes. A piece of knowledge from their brain, no....

I didn't consider that element of the overall picture when I made my comment and I made a clearly incorrect argument. So yes, I suspect the government probably is on the hook for damages done to the safe. Of course that won't stop them from breaking it open, but I certainly understand why they would take the easy road and ask the manufacturer for the combo.

 

[mat200]

Liberty Safe Backdoor Breakdown
DeviantOllam

 

[BORIStheBLADE]

So is this only for the keypad safes or all of their safes?

 

[bigredfish]

I havent been able to find that answer yet either... Im assuming all even with S&G mechanical locks

 

[Coldair]

we could start a keypad exchange with random users

 

[juliand]

anything electronic can be passively hacked or rendered useless.
you need mechanical devices that can only be breached by physical forces, and that only takes time.

 

[mat200]

anything electronic can be passively hacked or rendered useless.
you need mechanical devices that can only be breached by physical forces, and that only takes time.

Hello, everyone!
Could you please tell me where it is best to place a video surveillance camera on a two-story building? I have 2 options: above the front door or above the second floor?
And I'm also interested to know what you think about the fingerprint recognition system? How reliable is it?

So is this only for the keypad safes or all of their safes?

I havent been able to find that answer yet either... Im assuming all even with S&G mechanical locks

we could start a keypad exchange with random users

see the last video from DeviantOllam ( above your comments ) he does a great job covering safes .. seriously solid information on this topic ..

( super quick too shot summary : he likes mechanical locks .. but they have downsides .. not fast to open, can't have multiple codes .. so for a pistol he has a digital lock .. other stuff in a safe with mechanical locks .. )