Mini-Review - 5442-Z4E-S3 AKA B54IR-Z4E S3 - Replacement to the 5442-Z4E

[steve1225]

Great info - is the aperture variation with zoom setting documented anywhere?

Max aperture you will find in all camera specs on Dahua site...
Information about minimal aperture usually are not published...

But in several places in Dahua's information materials I found information that 5xxx-Z4E lenses have a fixed focal length. The others lens models, unfortunately, quickly close their iris in time with the zoom level increase. it can be easy observed at night with very short shutters speed (1/500 - 1/1000) when You zoom in and zoom out camera with constant gain level.

5442E-ZE:

5442H-ZE:

5442E-Z4E:

 

[RaviKmar]

Is there a different day/night utility other than the one that is present in - profiles- ?

Although Blue Iris doesn't have a separate day/night utility, you can manage this by scheduling profiles, adjusting camera settings individually, creating custom triggers, exploring external scripts or plugins, and considering third-party integrations. Experimentation and staying updated with software advancements can enhance your surveillance system's day/night functionality

 

[wittaj]

^Is this a good BOT?

 

[bigredfish]

Mebbe you and a few of the other really smart guys can get together and train our own?

 

[David L]

When repetitive questions are asked, release the BOT...
lol

 

[alekk]

Circling back on the "how does the aperture vary with zoom" question ... and thanks @steve1225 for your info.

I'm debating replacing a ZE (2.7-12mm) with a Z4E (8-32mm). The "Zoom Level" on the Z4's go from 0-2275 (wide-tele)... and one of mine is at 400 ... which I suspect is wayyyy wider than the Z4E can go.

However, the other ZE is at a zoom of 1400 ... so I'm wondering if the Z4E can show the same field-of-view?

I know there are some rough calculations you can do ... but what I'm REALLY interested in is given the same field-of-view (ZE zoomed in, Z4E wide), what is the difference in low-light gathering capability ... since the ZE aperture probably closes down (possibly a fair amount) whereas the Z4E's aperture should be wide-open.

Any chance someone has BOTH camera's (ideally S3 versions) mounted in about the same place and could do a night-time shoot-off in COLOR ... i.e. not IR?

I.e. start with the exact same settings across the board and same field-of-view/target. Then assuming the Z4E is brigher, adjust the shutter speed (increase Z4E or decrease Z4) until the brightness is about the same. Note that you want a fast enough shutter speed so it isn't varying the gain (ISO) on 'ya ... probably easiest to set that to zero. Assuming similar sensor/processing/etc., this should tell us what the difference in Aperture is - the ratio will be the square root of the shutter speed ratio.

I.e. as a camera guy, F/2.0@1/400s is the same exposure as F4.0@1/100s.


I think this would be of general interest.

 

[wittaj]

Circling back on the "how does the aperture vary with zoom" question ... and thanks @steve1225 for your info.

I'm debating replacing a ZE (2.7-12mm) with a Z4E (8-16mm). The "Zoom Level" on the Z4's go from 0-2275 (wide-tele)... and one of mine is at 400 ... which I suspect is wayyyy wider than the Z4E can go.

However, the other ZE is at a zoom of 1400 ... so I'm wondering if the Z4E can show the same field-of-view?

I know there are some rough calculations you can do ... but what I'm REALLY interested in is given the same field-of-view (ZE zoomed in, Z4E wide), what is the difference in low-light gathering capability ... since the ZE aperture probably closes down (possibly a fair amount) whereas the Z4E's aperture should be wide-open.

Any chance someone has BOTH camera's (ideally S3 versions) mounted in about the same place and could do a night-time shoot-off?

I.e. start with the exact same settings across the board and same field-of-view/target. Then assuming the Z4E is brigher, adjust the shutter speed (increase Z4E or decrease Z4) until the brightness is about the same. Note that you want a fast enough shutter speed so it isn't varying the gain (ISO) on 'ya ... probably easiest to set that to zero. Assuming similar sensor/processing/etc., this should tell us what the difference in Aperture is - the ratio will be the square root of the shutter speed ratio.

I.e. as a camera guy, F/2.0@1/400s is the same exposure as F4.0@1/100s.


I think this would be of general interest.

The Z4E is 8-32mm.

I didn't run a test side-by-side but I do have both and my impressions are that the Z4E can run a faster shutter than the ZE across wide to zoom.

 

[alekk]

Ooops ... 16->32mm typo fixed in post above - thanks.

Good into @wittaj - you would certainly have an excellent "feel" for the difference. To be clear, those are both S3's - right?
And when the Z4E is wide-open, what "zoom level" does that correspond to with the Z4?

Here's an example of a really in-depth analysis of the 4K-X by @wopi82 ... but he doesn't seem to be active on the forums anymore (?)

 

[wittaj]

Yes they are both the S3.

Do you mean with the Z4E is wide open, what zoom level does that correspond to with the ZE?

 

[alekk]

Do you mean with the Z4E is wide open, what zoom level does that correspond to with the ZE?

Yes ... i.e. for the same field-of-view, when the Z4E wide open (8mm), what is the "zoom level" on the Z4 which goes from 2.7-12mm.

And the REAL question I'm trying to answer is what is the difference in aperture at those settings - i.e. how much does the ZE close-down?
Since for the same exposure, the aperture ratio will be the square root of the shutter speed ratio.

P.S. WRT to the aperture variation with zoom range of the ZE's, I should have tested this when I had them on my "bench" ... by pointing it pretty close (since wide-angle lens) to an evenly lit wall. Then see how much I have to change the shutter speed to try to maintain the same exposure, across the zoom range. Unfortunately, they are all deployed and kinda hard to take down right now. LOL maybe @EMPIRETECANDY will send me some to test(!) ... although ideally, Dahua should publish this data as camera manufactures do for variable aperture lens. I.e. F/1.8@2.8mm, F/?.?@4mm, F?.?@8mm, F?.?@12mm ... or at the the two end numbers.

 

[wittaj]

I would say wide out Z4E is much closer to the 12mm limit of the ZE, maybe an equivalent of a 10mm. I felt like the S3 version of the ZE was just a tad wider at full zoom than the original ZE.

 

[steve1225]

I know there are some rough calculations you can do ... but what I'm REALLY interested in is given the same field-of-view (ZE zoomed in, Z4E wide), what is the difference in low-light gathering capability ... since the ZE aperture probably closes down (possibly a fair amount) whereas the Z4E's aperture should be wide-open.

One more time - Z4E has fixed aperture F1.6.. Z4 (in 5442E) have max aperture F1.8 and it closes even more in zoomed position (something like F3.5 or F4.0)..
So in all possible zoom positions, Z4E will be more bright... No comparison at all..

In case of 5442H-ZE with F1.2 (Any don't sell this model) it will be brighter only in widest positions (28 - 40mm or something like this).. which is not comparable to Z4E (total different focal length)..

Yes ... i.e. for the same field-of-view, when the Z4E wide open (8mm), what is the "zoom level" on the Z4 which goes from 2.7-12mm.

And the REAL question I'm trying to answer is what is the difference in aperture at those settings - i.e. how much does the ZE close-down?
Since for the same exposure, the aperture ratio will be the square root of the shutter speed ratio.

In theory ZE (2.8-12mm) and Z4E (8-32mm) have some common focal length range (8-12mm)... But in practice this don't means they have common zoom range based on field of view.. You should read & study more Dahua specifications ...

If You check below Field of view, ZE ends at 47° and Z4E starts at 42° of horizontal field of view.. so there is no common zoom / field of view range.. even more - there is a hole - range 42° - 47° which is not supported by any model...

And I can confirm from real tests with both cams on the same table - you can not setup them to the same zoom range between 8-12mm... It don't exists... Looks like Dahua is cheating with 2.8-12mm range in ZE models

one more thing - from my playing on both models (and some other) on table.. new Z4E is sharp as hell in all range of distances.. from half meter to infinity.. ZE (especially in 5442H with F1.2) needs fiddling with focus control to focus all visible objects at different distances... and after that sharpness is not at level of Z4E...

So if You need an optical zoom and there is no risk that 42° maximum field of view will be limiting for You, Z4E will be always the better solution. In all comparison. END OF STORY

From professional photography: specialised lens (only telephoto like Z4E, or only wide) are always much better that universal (kit) one (like ZE), which supports both wide and tele zoom range.. laws of optics...

5442E-ZE:


5442E-Z4E:

 

[alekk]

Thanks a bunch @steve1225 for the great info!

Got it that Z4E was fixed aperture through the entire zoom range - sorry I didn't fully realize that. Yes, wide-mildtele is more difficult lens design than mildtele-strongtele.

Thanks for the FOV data ... and yes, I should have looked this up.

So at the risk of asking a dumb question, why wouldn't the FOV overlap using a 2.7-12mm and 8-32mm lens ... since both are listed as (same-size) 1/1.8" sensor?

Per this 2021 thread about the T5442T-ZE, @wopi82 concludes that "Dahua is messing up with numbers" and says it is actually 3-9mm ... as focus breathing is pretty severe ... which is pretty obvious when you rachet through the focus range.

 

[steve1225]

So at the risk of asking a dumb question, why wouldn't the FOV overlap using a 2.7-12mm and 8-32mm lens ... since both are listed as (same-size) 1/1.8" sensor?

Per this 2021 thread about the T5442T-ZE, @wopi82 concludes that "Dahua is messing up with numbers" and says it is actually 3-9mm ... as focus breathing is pretty severe ... which is pretty obvious when you rachet through the focus range.

In cctv world focal length information is more or less faked

You can have many different cam models all with 2.8mm fixed lens and the same size sensor in the same 16:9 ratio and all them will have different field of view - from 90° something to even 110°.. the same with varifocals... widest position from varifocal (2.8mm) usually is not comparable to fixed 2.8mm models from the same line..

For me Dahua (and not only Dahua - HIK the same) is simply cheating with ZE lenses - is theory they should be 4x zoom range, in practice is more or less 2.5 - 3.0x zoom range lens..

So I don't read focal length from spec - but only field of view.. this gives You more practical information..

 

[alekk]

Once again, great info @steve1225 - I appreciate that you even mentioned that the image ratio needs to be the same.

From my experience (reviews and hands-on) camera lens focal lengths aren't always quite what they claim to be ... but they are usually pretty close.
So I appreciate the education on how the cctv world "fakes" it - LOL on your choice of words! ;-)

 

[Azman]

Will do. I have been busy today relocating cameras to "hide" them better from the passerby's. Also looking to move my LP2 Camera from the eave of the house to the tree.

Any chance you have some pictures of what the tree install looks like.

 

[Parley]

Any chance you have some pictures of what the tree install looks like.

I do have this one. It is the one on the right. I extended the hood to keep the security light off the front of the camera at night. I can get more pictures if you need them. if you need them.

 

[Nunofya]

I do have this one. It is the one on the right. I extended the hood to keep the security light off the front of the camera at night. I can get more pictures if you need them.View attachment 187568 if you need them.

Do you keep the IR off on the cameras to limit detection?

 

[bigredfish]

Unless you have exceptional white light shining on the plates you have to run IR at night to get the reflection to be able to see it.

 

[Parley]

Do you keep the IR off on the cameras to limit detection?

Not on that camera. I run IR at night for license plate reading. It has a very good angle looking up the street. The one on the left is for general surveillance and there are no lights on at night. That one is a Hikvision 4k camera. Model number DS-2CD2087G2-L in 4mm.