New house build - Need help w/ camera plan

[dragonian]

Hello!
I've been lurking for a while learning and such, but the house plans are finally getting to a point where we are going to start construction, so I need to make a plan for cameras.
I will be running all LV for cameras, network, alarm, audio, etc. I'm well versed in the network & audio. Less so on the camera and security. Obviously now is the time to over-plan.

Attached are my house plans (pdf - hopefully it will post correctly)

There will be a beefy blue iris box in the sever room, and all network/ etc will terminate there. I'm running a small blue iris setup currently w/ 3 cameras in the current house, and have been impressed the maturity of the solution.
I don't want to over do it with cameras, but do want to have a whole house surveillance -- to watch the wildlife if nothing else.
I'd like them to be somewhat non-obvious to casual observation.

I'm thinking of either the IPC-T5442T-ZE or the IPC-T3241T-ZAS or the majority of the cameras. I'm guessing that variable focus will help to fine-tune FOV once everything is built.
I guess I'm leaning toward the 4MP, though I appreciate the price of the 3241.

Current thoughts (Exterior):

• 2 turret cameras under the overhang on either side of the garage (facing opposing directions)
• 1 turret cam under the front porch (potentially wall mounted?)
• "Doorbell cam" at the front door - still hoping for more options here - maybe wire for 24V and POE?
• A camera (maybe 2?) under the deck to look out the back yard?
• Another doorbell cam at the back garage entry door?
• ?? Maybe something eve mounted in the back outside of laundry room?
• ?? Maybe something eve mounted near the master bath?
• what am I missing?

Interior:

• Garage cam? Model? Location?
• Server Room?
• Wine Room? Something discrete?
• Anything else that is common?

Thanks for any help!

 

[SouthernYankee]

Run more ethernet cable than you think you will need, to more location than you thing you will need.
For exterior cameras that are going to be used to ID the bad guys mount no higher than 7 ft.
No wifi for cameras
The server room needs a quality UPS backup, The server room need more A/C cooling. The server room need fire protection, very good quality fire proof walls and ceiling.
My back data storage, and backup Realtime video storage in inside a fire proof gun safe.


my house
============================================
1) the front door needs three cameras, one doorbell camera, one pointing at the package drop area, one pointing back to the front door.
2) the garage entrance Needs minimum of two cameras pointing out mounted no higher than the top of the garage door.
3) the inside of the garage need two cameras one point at the garage door and one point at the house entrance
4) each entrance to the house must be covered by a camera.
5) each camera must be covered by another camera, If i can destroy a camera it must be covered, recorded by another camera.
6) in my house all public areas inside are covered, kitchen, living room, dining room, halls, game room, den
7) all outside doors are covered by a camera inside, pointing out.
==============================================

 

[nosnim]

SouthernYankee pretty much covered it. You might want to add an LPR camera for any road that vehicles can access your property.

 

[SouthernYankee]

My standard welcome to the forum message.

Read Study Plan before spending money
Cameras are for surveillance to get information for after the fact.

Please read the IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes and other items in the IP Cam Talk Wiki. (read on a real computer, not a phone). The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.


Quick start
1) If you do not have a wired monitored alarm system, get that first
2) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras if you need good low light cameras.
3) Start with a good variable focus camera, so you test for the correct lens,lighting, camera placement.
4) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
5) Do not use WIFI cameras.
6) Do not use cloud storage
7) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
8) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
9) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
10) Do not use reolink, ring, nest, Arlo, Vivint cameras (they are junk), no cloud cameras
11) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
12) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
13) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
14) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 7ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
15) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
16) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator
17) POE list PoE Switch Suggestion List
18) Camera Sensor size, bigger is general better Sensor Size Chart
19) Camera lens size the bigger number the more range the less FOV. . Which Security Camera Lens Size Should I Buy?
20) verify your camera placement, have a friend wearing a hoodie, ball cap and sunglasses looking down approach the house, can you identify them at night ?
21) DO NOT UPGRADE your NVR or camera unless you absolutely have a problem that needs to be fixed and known what you are doing, if you do you will turn it into a brick !!

Cameras to look at
IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED . Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+) - 4MP starlight
.................... Dahua IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED review
IPC-T5442TM-AS ..... Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ - 4MP starlight+
IPC-HDW5442t-ZE .... Dahua IPC-HDW5442T-ZE 4MP Varifocal Turret - Night Perfomance testing -- variable focus 2.7 mm-12mm 4 MP Starlight
IPC-B5442E-ZE ...... Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+ -- variable 2.7mm-12mm bullet
IPC-B5442E-Z4E .... bullet 8mm-32mm variable focus zoom 4MP

 

[Mike A.]

I'd pass on the doorbell cams. Just use a regular cam in their place. More and better options in that case.

 

[The Automation Guy]

Hello!
Thanks for any help!

Since you are running your own LV wiring, I would suggest doubling up the wiring - at least to any spot that will be "inaccessible" in the future. This way you always have a backup should a wire fail, and you never know when you might want to add a IR emitter or some other device that could use the second wire. Wire is relatively cheap, and installation will never be easier than during construction, so always run more than you think you will need.

Also, pay close attention to the DORI specs for each camera/position you want to install at. Often you will find that you need more than one camera at the same location to cover all your goals. I have multiple cameras covering the front of my house as an example - wide angle cameras to provide an overall view and identify objects close to the house, and longer focal length cameras to provide identification of things at the end of my driveway and the road. I could not accomplish both goals with just one camera.

I'd pass on the doorbell cams. Just use a regular cam in their place. More and better options in that case.

I wouldn't pass on the doorbell cam. I certainly would supplement it with other cameras, but a doorbell camera provides a unique view without being obtrusive IMHO.

 

[mat200]

Hello!
I've been lurking for a while learning and such, but the house plans are finally getting to a point where we are going to start construction, so I need to make a plan for cameras.
I will be running all LV for cameras, network, alarm, audio, etc. I'm well versed in the network & audio. Less so on the camera and security. Obviously now is the time to over-plan.

Attached are my house plans (pdf - hopefully it will post correctly)

There will be a beefy blue iris box in the sever room, and all network/ etc will terminate there. I'm running a small blue iris setup currently w/ 3 cameras in the current house, and have been impressed the maturity of the solution.
I don't want to over do it with cameras, but do want to have a whole house surveillance -- to watch the wildlife if nothing else.
I'd like them to be somewhat non-obvious to casual observation.

I'm thinking of either the IPC-T5442T-ZE or the IPC-T3241T-ZAS or the majority of the cameras. I'm guessing that variable focus will help to fine-tune FOV once everything is built.
I guess I'm leaning toward the 4MP, though I appreciate the price of the 3241.

Current thoughts (Exterior):

• 2 turret cameras under the overhang on either side of the garage (facing opposing directions)
• 1 turret cam under the front porch (potentially wall mounted?)
• "Doorbell cam" at the front door - still hoping for more options here - maybe wire for 24V and POE?
• A camera (maybe 2?) under the deck to look out the back yard?
• Another doorbell cam at the back garage entry door?
• ?? Maybe something eve mounted in the back outside of laundry room?
• ?? Maybe something eve mounted near the master bath?
• what am I missing?

Interior:

• Garage cam? Model? Location?
• Server Room?
• Wine Room? Something discrete?
• Anything else that is common?

Thanks for any help!

Welcome @dragonian

Looks like a nice home you have planned .. and we've had some great suggestions by ipcamtalk members.

Quick look, and I really like the layout of your home. Should turn out really nice.

I've included an example of where I would plan to put cameras covering the driveway / garage door area. 2 cameras minimal is my standard

Seeing that you are exposed on all sides, I would plan now to wire a lot of possible places for cameras.

N+1+ for cabling.

As a general rule, I want at least 2 chances to get a good image of anyone if they walk to an entrance of the home.

I would also consider a high up PTZ if you have good scenic views ..

Doorbell .. even if you are undecided about a "doorbell" camera product - run 2 cat6 cables to the door bell locations, and 2 cables to a face level location by the door. ( I like one camera face level at the door .. mini-dome wedge is my preferred type - and I like to always run one extra cat6 cable .. cable is affordable .. and I like another camera watching the drop zone .. often mounted higher than the face level camera )

 

[SouthernYankee]

if you park in the driveway at night, you need cameras to record for door checkers. You have the parking court area, if you use that at night , it must be covered, mount a zoom camera under the upper level porch. not sure how to chech the other side.

Run multiple underground cables to near the street, so in the future you can add cameras for license plate reader, people id and car description.

 

[Flintstone61]

So yeah in some spots you may want to pull a spare.
My mistake was high mounted cams. My Amcrest AD110 Doorbell cam does offer a better face shot than my camera 7 feet up on the porch eave. And it's working with BI.
When I used to Pull cable for GE in hospitals, If we needed 4 drops at a nurses station, they usually had us pull 5 or 6 back to the network closet.
Or maybe in places that will be hard to reach later... leave a follow string.
Esp. over long runs up in the attic.
Maybe even pvc conduit over the attic insulation big enough for 5-7 runs with a pull string tied off on either end.
Camera's that overlap other cameras. Thats How I found out which Condo resident was trying to conceal his actions by moving my old Bullet cams in the Garage so he could thwart detection.
Had an affection for keying cars of those whom he felt had somehow snubbed him or created friction.
Get decent Cameras that really can't be budged once installed. like in the Garage. or rear patio entrances.

 

[Teken]

Lots of great solid information so can only affirm conduit, pull string, in key areas that span every area, floor, zone.

120 VAC power in key areas of the exterior property to be used for accent ground lighting or anything else like AP, Media Converter, POE injector.

It goes without saying having properly sized conduit in the ground allows you to pull whatever like CAT / Fibre. If weather monitoring is of interest to you having a hardline and power is great. Once the property is finalized and graded installing a pole for a flag that can serve multi purpose for lights, PTZ cameras, weather station etc.

Very few people ever have cameras that monitor the entire exterior of the home vs pointing away or over lap to see a small portion. Having the ability to see all four sides of the home and property offers a vantage point that’s hard to beat.

Lastly, having one or two cameras to record the sky for shootings stars, lightning, crazy winds is fun! Coupled with capturing any wild life on the property is another great way to teach children about nature without having to be there that exact moment in time.

Finally as others have noted don’t skimp on proper grounding and power protection. Validate the loads and size accordingly to achieve the expected runtime.

Test, validate, and monitor consistently and track out of band conditions. Completing a regular Black Out event is not only prudent but mandatory if you’re ever to understand how things operate in the network!

If you haven’t considered how to seriously protect all of those electronics as it pertains to SPD / TVSS - do so now. When installed and deployed in a layered manner it will provide you that edge when things go completely wrong.

This of course does NOT negate the fact you have in force the proper amount of home owners insurance! This is the only thing that will come close (financially) to make you whole.

Document, record everything and have copies on, off site, in different media formats. The insurance company should be provided quarterly updates to any large purchase so they can have that information.

The easiest thing anyone can do is connect their phone to a online service where all photos are automatically uploaded as they are taken. Once a quarter relay those spendy items to the insurance!

Good Luck . . .

 

[dragonian]

Good comments, thanks!

I'm looking to have enough cameras for situational awareness, but I'm definitely not looking to have them be too obvious. I don't want to be known as "that guy". My wife supports the idea of cameras - but that support is going to wane if it makes the house ugly.
I'm not currently overly concerned - probably wrongly so - of the propensity for bad actors, door checkers, etc. This community is gated, and the house is decently far from the main road.

I need to figure out where/ if I need to put wall mounted cameras vs under overhang/ eave. I'm personally more comfortable with underhang mounted cameras from the visual impact perspective - but I do have the understanding that is more challenging from a camera image quality.

I certainly planning on over-wiring. This is why I have talked to the builder early on regarding this opportunity. Conveniently I have a friend that retired last year as a UBEW data comm installer. I already plan on running 3 drops+ conduit to TV locations, dual drops to AP locations - including more than I think i will need. Extra drops in closets, etc. A large empty conduit w/ pull string from the server room to the attic - for anything I miss. Despite wireless being convenient, any thing that can be plugged in will be.
The comment to run 2 cables to camera spots for extra/backup is ack'd.

I've included an example of where I would plan to put cameras covering the driveway / garage door area. 2 cameras minimal is my standard
View attachment 97108

This is similar to my thoughts - except I was thinking of putting them higher up under the overhang. I know this breaks the rule regarding the 6'-7' height. But I'm concerned that they would be too obvious if wall mounted.

I would also consider a high up PTZ if you have good scenic views ..

Great suggestion. As you might have guessed, the great room with the wall of windows is facing the direction of the view. Maybe a PTZ at the top of the peak? Any model numbers to check out?

Doorbell .. even if you are undecided about a "doorbell" camera product - run 2 cat6 cables to the door bell locations, and 2 cables to a face level location by the door. ( I like one camera face level at the door .. mini-dome wedge is my preferred type - and I like to always run one extra cat6 cable .. cable is affordable .. and I like another camera watching the drop zone .. often mounted higher than the face level camera )

I'm thinking of 3 cams in the front porch area. doorbell cam - likely VTO2202F-P. One turret looking out, and likely a wedge cam somewhere.

if you park in the driveway at night, you need cameras to record for door checkers. You have the parking court area, if you use that at night , it must be covered, mount a zoom camera under the upper level porch. not sure how to check the other side.

I don't plan on parking vehicles outside, imho, the garage is for car parking - not clutter. But I think it's a good recomendation to have a camera that can see that spot.

 

[SouthernYankee]

The obvious cameras are a deterrent. If you have cameras the bad guys go to the next house. All good neighborhoods will go bad. I live in a very upscale golf course community near a major city, in the last two years we have had a break-in with a murder, and two drive by shooting.

If you "are that Guy" your neighbors will be be over to ask if you have any good video after there break-in.

If you can not ID the bad guy you have wasted your time and money.

 

[The Automation Guy]

Turret cameras (not dome cameras) can provide a good mix of performance in a small package, especially when you can put the appropriate box in the wall/ceiling of the location during construction so you don't have to surface mount a box along with the camera. The Dahua 5442 series cameras are available in turret format and they work really well. I have both turret and bullet 5442s and the turret cameras are much smaller than the bullet models.

 

[Teken]

Trust me I understand the need to keep that curb appeal. Nothing is worse than to see a home dotted with what looks like warts hanging off a wall or siding. There are many companies that offer flush mount kits so this is a great balance when using dome style cameras.

As it pertains to seeing a camera there are situations where that IS the intent so people know something is there. More often than not that’s what makes someone pass one house vs another.

Given you will live in a nice gated community and surrounded by like minded people the risk are lower. But never ever think just because you live X vs Y you’re fine.

If that wasn’t the case home invasions wouldn’t be a thing in North America! Nobody goes to the hood to steal a 4K TV because there aren’t any. They come to a neighbourhood that nine times out of ten is empty from 8-4 PM!

A smash and grab happens in under five minutes and nobody is coming that fast. So it’s good you have decided to invest in perimeter security but never ever forget that is only one of the rings of true security.

Security is a state of mind and lifestyle. Once that is understood the other elements of security fall into place if invested to do so.

 

[dragonian]

Trust me I understand the need to keep that curb appeal. Nothing is worse than to see a home dotted with what looks like warts hanging off a wall or siding. There are many companies that offer flush mount kits so this is a great balance when using dome style cameras.

Any mounting images or model numbers that I should investigate?

I agree that the turrets like the 5442 are a good blend of appearance and performance.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Basically the same list as SouthernYankee -

5442 Reviews

Review-OEM Loryta IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal 4mp camera (Dahua)

IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal from @EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret Varifocal Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk store: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price Approximately US $200.00...

ipcamtalk.com

Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+

All, thanks to Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY ) we have a new 4MP AI camera for testing. This camera has been provided by Andy in exchange for a fair and honest review. This camera is using the OEM model number of IPC-B5442-ZE which is the equivalent of the Dahua IPC-HFW5442-ZE for reference. The IPC-B...

ipcamtalk.com

Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+

Dahua OEM IPC-T5442TM-AS from EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk store: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price Approximately US $160 Link to camera...

ipcamtalk.com

Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+)

Dahua OEM IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED from EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Andy's Email: kingsecurity2014...

ipcamtalk.com

Review: IPC-HDBW5442R-ASE-NI - Dahua Technology Pro AI Dome Network Camera

Hey, this is a wonderful forum, and since I’ve recently purchased a new set of Dahua cameras, I thought I’d share my thoughts and opinions. This camera is the IPC-HDBW5442R-ASE-NI, and it’s actually the fourth camera from Dahua that I’ve purchased for my house over the years. Prior to this, I...

ipcamtalk.com

Quick guide -

The smaller the lux number the better the low light performance. 0.002 is better than 0.02
The smaller the "F" of the lens the better the low light performance. F1.4 is better than F1.8
The larger the sensor the better the low light performance. 1/1.8" is better (bigger) than 1/2.7"
The higher the megapixels for the same size sensor the worse the low light performance. A 4MP camera with a 1/1.8" sensor will perform better than a 8MP camera with that same 1/1.8" sensor.

1/3" = .333"
1/2.8" = .357" (think a .38 caliber bullet)
1/1.8" = .555" (bigger than a .50 caliber bullet or ball)
1/1.2" = .833" (bigger than a 20mm chain gun round)

 

[dragonian]

Sorry, I was asking more for the Flush mounting options - especailly side of house wall mounts.
I've already perused a lot of the great camera reviews, and am thinking the that 5442 varifocal appears to be the prime option.

 

[Teken]

Any mounting images or model numbers that I should investigate?

I agree that the turrets like the 5442 are a good blend of appearance and performance.

Don’t have any readily available on my phone but am sure Google images will turn up a few. It goes without saying anything that’s flush mounted must be planned out to be installed in that dedicated soffit panel that is well supported and secured.

If you ever change your mind or the camera blows up and let’s just say the camera and flush mount kit is no longer made.

It comes down to removing the camera, add new (section) of soffit and either surface mount or flush mount. When flush mounting is incorporated with a small PTZ you have almost the best of all.

As when they are located on the corners of the home even on two stories. Having the ability to see at least 180’ vs a fixed position is priceless!

Keep in mind the home must always have fixed position cameras because it’s going to happen the PTZ will go into a touring mode or auto tracking and miss that money shot!

PTZ’s should be used as the next layer to an existing stationary camera system. I don’t recall the Dauha model that everyone calls the Booby cam. But both Hikvision and Dahua offer this type of system.

Using these in strategic areas saves wire and multiple install points. Just something to consider as you try to balance curb appeal / WAF!

 

[sebastiantombs]

I've got a total of 11 cameras on the exterior of the house. No one seems to see them at all unless they are specifically looking for cameras. There are an additional two mounted in trees near the street, say 30-40 feet set back, and no one sees them either. One of those cameras isn't even painted camo, just plain white, and still no one seems to notice it.

It's actually a misconception that they will be seen and stick out like sore thumbs. You and the Mrs know they're there and know exactly where they are which is why they are so obvious to you. That doesn't automatically transfer to visitors at all.

 

[JNDATHP]

Here are our external cameras at night. I’ll post daytime pictures for contrast.

Front door.


Garage front.



West side.



Rear yard.



East side.



What we see...(this tablet shows all exterior cams plus a garage cam and a cam in the loft, and we have other interior cameras).



LEDs are so cheap to use that we keep our exterior lights on at 25% and they ramp up to 100% when motion is detected.

And, solar LEDs work well, too.



The front door and the two garage mounted cameras are 5231s, the rest are 2231s except for the rear yard which is an off brand auto tracking PTZ.