Pandemic threat? Anyone else concerned?

Oceanslider said:
This shouldn't be a Left/Right issue. The mother lives is a very rural area where there have been ZERO deaths reported as Covid-19 to date.
After all this is done, or even ASAP, federal laws need to be drafted as to what State Politicians can do in regards to restricting our basic freedoms.

I guess car theft is no longer a Felony in California :rolleyes:

If Newsom and the rest of his Dem buddies had their way they'd barge into my house and remove all my guns. And then they would release ALL criminals. :mad:
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And those of you with "assault" rifles are now lumped in with "racists"... Oh my...

www.foxnews.com

Michigan's Whitmer says armed protesters displayed 'worst racism and awful parts' of US history

Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer slammed the protestors who gathered inside the state's Capitol building on Thursday to demand she rescind her stay-at-home orders, saying they represented the “worst racism and awful parts” of U.S. history.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
 
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We are all speculating on how severe this really is. Until we have an actual idea how many have had it compared to a factual number of who actually died from it, we are only guessing. I do not trust the government or media with regards to this virus. I think once we get everyone tested for antibodies we will see the mortality rate much lower. Like flu like numbers. As for the mask I see it only as a means of decreasing the transmission distance, nothing more. A sneeze or cough into a mask should knock down the particle distance some.
 
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Hound Dog 911 said:
We are all speculating on how severe this really is. Until we have an actual idea how many have had it compared to a factual number of who actually died from it, we are only guessing. I do not trust the government or media with regards to this virus. I think once we get everyone tested for antibodies we will see the mortality rate much lower. Like flu like numbers. As for the mask I see it only as a means of decreasing the transmission distance, nothing more. A sneeze or cough into a mask should knock down the particle distance some.
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HI @Hound Dog 911

Data is fairly clear and various ways to find out this is certainly not like the flu

PRC ( People's Republic of China ) will not be doing what it has if this was anything like the flu. Nor would we see excessive deaths this far beyond the normal. No one in their right mind would kill their economy if this was "just like the flu".

If you really think it is just like the flu - I recommend volunteering to work in a hospital.

Data on masks - clearly show they are significantly useful to reduce the R0 / transmission rate. Numerous resources on this topic - you can start with searching "Jeremy" and "masks4all"
 
mat200 said:
HI @Hound Dog 911

Data is fairly clear and various ways to find out this is certainly not like the flu

PRC ( People's Republic of China ) will not be doing what it has if this was anything like the flu. Nor would we see excessive deaths this far beyond the normal. No one in their right mind would kill their economy if this was "just like the flu".

If you really think it is just like the flu - I recommend volunteering to work in a hospital.

Data on masks - clearly show they are significantly useful to reduce the R0 / transmission rate. Numerous resources on this topic - you can start with searching "Jeremy" and "masks4all"
Click to expand...
There is no complete data. Data is far from accurate and according to LA County study of people with covid19 antibodies there are 50x plus more people who had it and didn't get tested, go to the hospital, or even sometimes know they had it. Until you really know how many have had it, the mortality rate is nothing more than a guess being used for fear purposes.
 
mat200 said:
HI @Hound Dog 911

Data is fairly clear and various ways to find out this is certainly not like the flu

PRC ( People's Republic of China ) will not be doing what it has if this was anything like the flu. Nor would we see excessive deaths this far beyond the normal. No one in their right mind would kill their economy if this was "just like the flu".

If you really think it is just like the flu - I recommend volunteering to work in a hospital.

Data on masks - clearly show they are significantly useful to reduce the R0 / transmission rate. Numerous resources on this topic - you can start with searching "Jeremy" and "masks4all"
Click to expand...
By the way, I have 30+ years in Fire and Rescue and directly interact daily with folks on the front lines. I'm not saying the virus can't be serious. It obviously is. Until we know how many actually had it, the mortality is only a guess.
 
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Hound Dog 911 said:
There is no complete data. Data is far from accurate and according to LA County study of people with covid19 antibodies there are 50x plus more people who had it and didn't get tested, go to the hospital, or even sometimes know they had it. Until you really know how many have had it, the mortality rate is nothing more than a guess being used for fear purposes.
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Hi @Hound Dog 911

Are there inaccuracies - yes.

Can you determine if SARS-cov-2 / Covid-19 is worse than the typical flu. ABSOLUTELY. Even with in accurate data, the data on annual deaths is so far worse for all countries where the Pandemic is raging that it should be clear to anyone that is not the flu.

To suggest this is will no worse of a death rate than the flu is clearly overlooking the facts.

Does not matter if you have past experiences in fire and rescue - until this hit there were even MDs in the field who chimed in and claimed this would be no worse than the flu - and once they joined the Covid-19 teams in their hospitals and it hit, they changed their minds.
 
mat200 said:
Hi @Hound Dog 911

Are there inaccuracies - yes.

Can you determine if SARS-cov-2 / Covid-19 is worse than the typical flu. ABSOLUTELY. Even with in accurate data, the data on annual deaths is so far worse for all countries where the Pandemic is raging that it should be clear to anyone that is not the flu.

To suggest this is will no worse of a death rate than the flu is clearly overlooking the facts.

Does not matter if you have past experiences in fire and rescue - until this hit there were even MDs in the field who chimed in and claimed this would be no worse than the flu - and once they joined the Covid-19 teams in their hospitals and it hit, they changed their minds.
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And again. Until you know how many asymptomatic folks or people that were sick and did not have access to tests you just can't have an accurate mortality rate. When all is said and done and we know who has antibodies and who "actually" died from the virus the numbers will be similar to the flu. While there is / was a huge influx of seriously ill patients, the flu never had the media driven fear machine. If we have 50x more people that had it and didn't know it against whatever number the government cares to toss out this week, the mortality rate will be much lower. Very much compared to the flu. And yes we are back to doctors saying this was overblown.
 
StratRider said:
CDC cut their # of deaths almost in half. It's not 64k as previously stated, it's now 37,308.
You just can't count that guy with the gunshot wound to the head as dying of C-19 any more.

Provisional COVID-19 Mortality Surveillance

National Center for Health Statistics
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov
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Those are by their own words provisional and not complete. Death certs reported to cdc lag bigly from state and local govt and MEs
 
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For those who say this is no worse than the flu,

1- the flu doesn’t kill near as many folks in just 6-8 weeks as this has so far

2- if it had not been for containment efforts, ie stay at home etc. it would have likely been much worse. Witness ships, nursing homes, etc where close proximity resulted in explosive infection and death rates. I've yet to hear about 70-80 old folks dead in a matter of weeks in a single facility from the normal flu.

3- I didn’t report to cdc or anyone else when I had the flu. Did you? I would argue the flu infection/death rate (which has far less mass testing) is no more accurate

4- do you really think China, the US, Europe, and 150+ countries all got together in some mass state run scam to crash world economies over something “no worse than the flu”?
 
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bigredfish said:
For those who say this is no worse than the flu,

1- the flu doesn’t kill near as many folks in just 6-8 weeks as this has so far

2- if it had not been for containment efforts, ie stay at home etc. it would have likely been much worse. Witness ships, nursing homes, etc where close proximity resulted in explosive infection rates

3- I didn’t report to cdc or anyone else when I had the flu. Did you? I would argue the flu infection/death rate (which has far less mass testing) is no more accurate

4- do you really think China, the US, Europe, and 150+ countries all got together in some mass state run scam to crash world economies over something “no worse than the flu”?
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We will just have to agree to disagree. Have a nice day. My wife just took a pregnancy test and it came up with a faint line.
 
StratRider said:
CDC cut their # of deaths almost in half. It's not 64k as previously stated, it's now 37,308.
You just can't count that guy with the gunshot wound to the head as dying of C-19 any more.

Provisional COVID-19 Mortality Surveillance

National Center for Health Statistics
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov
Click to expand...
Completely wrong. That's based on one table of incomplete data, ending a week ago. It got misinterpreted.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
 
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Bloomberg

Cars
SUVs Get Parked in the Sea, Revealing Scope of U.S. Auto Market Glut
By Chester Dawson
April 30, 2020, 8:14 PM EDT Updated on May 1, 2020, 1:55 PM EDT

Roughly 2,000 Nissans spend almost a week floating offshore
A shipper says packed lots are unlike anything he’s ever seen

The length of almost two football fields, the cargo ship Jupiter Spirit arrived in Los Angeles’ harbor on April 24 after an almost three-week journey from Japan, ready to unload its cargo of about 2,000 Nissan Armada SUVs, Rogue crossovers and Infiniti sedans in a quick, half-day operation.

But when the ship, operated by Nissan Motor Co.’s freight arm, got about a mile offshore, its captain was ordered to drop anchor. And there the ship remained for almost a week -- a floating symbol of an unprecedented logjam as nearby storage lots covering hundreds of acres overflowed with vehicles that Americans suddenly have little desire to purchase.

There are gluts of all shapes and kinds forming in the U.S. nowadays, a testament to the scope of the economic pain the coronavirus is inflicting. Slaughterhouses are killing and tossing out thousands of pigs a day, dairy farmers are pouring away milk, oil sellers were paying buyers to take barrels off their hands last week, and now, brand-new cars are being left adrift at sea for days.

For the auto industry, the crisis has left cars gathering dust on dealer lots, dealerships shuttered, auction prices slipping and tens of thousands of workers laid off or furloughed. April U.S. sales plummeted 54% for Toyota Motor Corp., 47% for Subaru Corp. and 39% for Hyundai Motor Co.

..

But last month’s sales collapse produced a chain-reaction backlog, causing some ships to divert to other ports, others to wait days to discharge cargo and, ultimately, others to cancel voyages before they even got underway. The Port of Hueneme, a major import facility in Ventura County, California, had to find space in the surrounding area for about 6,000 surplus cars, in addition to the 4,000 on its site. Auto-logistics firms secured lots at a nearby cold-storage facility and an adjacent U.S. Navy base after scouring sites at local colleges emptied by the coronavirus

..

www.bloomberg.com

SUVs Get Parked in the Sea, Revealing Scope of U.S. Auto Market Glut

The length of almost two football fields, the cargo ship Jupiter Spirit arrived in Los Angeles’ harbor on April 24 after an almost three-week journey from Japan, ready to unload its cargo of about 2,000 Nissan Armada SUVs, Rogue crossovers and Infiniti sedans in a quick, half-day operation.
www.bloomberg.com www.bloomberg.com


Hound Dog 911 said:
And again. Until you know how many asymptomatic folks or people that were sick and did not have access to tests you just can't have an accurate mortality rate. When all is said and done and we know who has antibodies and who "actually" died from the virus the numbers will be similar to the flu. While there is / was a huge influx of seriously ill patients, the flu never had the media driven fear machine. If we have 50x more people that had it and didn't know it against whatever number the government cares to toss out this week, the mortality rate will be much lower. Very much compared to the flu. And yes we are back to doctors saying this was overblown.
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HI @Hound Dog 911

Please point out where in your professional experience working for fire and emergency services you have seen the number of people dying doubling every 3 days?

Seriously, please do point that out. Because I honestly can not think of any other issue we have dealt with which has a an exponential death rate that has escaped beyond control.

Yes, I get it that many folks do not want to believe what is going on.

Chris Martenson covers this topic well, and points to some really good work which covered the 6 stages of awarenes

1) Denial
2) Anger
3) Bargaining
4) Fear or anxiety
5) Depression
6) Acceptance

Lots of good information on that, and it is possible to have aspects from any of those stages as they are not mutually exclusive.

Also if you don't want to follow the numbers reported on COVID-19 deaths you can just look at the total deaths.

In terms of number of flu deaths - that number is generated by the CDC from an equation, and not actual stats.



1588550113754.png

1588550062782.png



note: This does not mean it is an end to humanity of course, but it is serious even if 1/1000 die.
 
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StratRider said:
CDC cut their # of deaths almost in half. It's not 64k as previously stated, it's now 37,308.
You just can't count that guy with the gunshot wound to the head as dying of C-19 any more.

Provisional COVID-19 Mortality Surveillance

National Center for Health Statistics
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov
Click to expand...
Frankenscript said:
Completely wrong. That's based on one table of incomplete data, ending a week ago. It got misinterpreted.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
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Here are the details:

The 37K figure comes from this graph, which (as stated in the footnotes) is not complete:

Provisional COVID-19 Mortality Surveillance

National Center for Health Statistics
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov

1588551519895.png

Notice it doesn't have the last week of data in it and the data from the last couple weeks shown is clearly incomplete.

Most recent CDC death data is here, showing current 65K number (8:20 pm Sunday eastern US time):

www.cdc.gov

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) in the U.S.

View the number of confirmed cases COVID-19 in the United States.
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov

1588551623400.png

Not sure why so many people across multiple forums seized upon the graph up at the top and the 37k figure as part of an influenza/pneumonia analysis as some sort of admission that COVID cases are overcounted. They are known to be significantly undercounted.

OK, back the the regular program.
 
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Hound Dog 911 said:
We will just have to agree to disagree. Have a nice day. My wife just took a pregnancy test and it came up with a faint line.
Click to expand...


Congratulations!

Which specific bullet point do you disagree with?
 
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