Pandemic threat? Anyone else concerned?

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Arjun said:
Woah, that's faster than Usain Bolt :eek: That's just insane. How do we verify this?
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What's to verify? The state will provide testing capability and the districts will be required to ensure it gets done. The article says each district there will be responsible for submitting a local plan.

Say what you will about the Chinese, if they want something done they have the ability to throw resources (or lives) at it and get it done.

Given they are having another cluster of cases there, this seems like a good step. I hope they are testing for both active cases and past exposure via serology. Would make an amazing study.

I hope they perform the process in a way the rest of the world can watch and learn from.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
 
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Q™ said:
Bozo The Clown...because, how much more winning can America endure?
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No Doubt, I mean, the most brilliant president ever said it could not be done, right? :rofl:


Yeah sure Mr Brilliant, how exactly did President Trump Negotiate a better NAFTA or a better trade deal with China? It just can’t be done, isn’t that right Mr. Brilliant? :idk:

I love that clip of Trump, best ever :clap:
 
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If they can do it, then everybody can as well. However, China has already been accused of covering up a percentage of their cases, especially when they added 50% more cases in Wuhan shortly after hearing the number of cases explode in New York City.

Almost 20% of Americans are unemployed. I tried applying as a contact tracer, still haven't gotten a response. Its only a matter of prioritizing. I'm still struggling to grasp the extent of cases in India. Apparently, there's been under-reporting by the second most populous nation on this Earth. However, sources say they got the least severe virulent strain

Frankenscript said:
What's to verify? The state will provide testing capability and the districts will be required to ensure it gets done. The article says each district there will be responsible for submitting a local plan.

Say what you will about the Chinese, if they want something done they have the ability to throw resources (or lives) at it and get it done.

Given they are having another cluster of cases there, this seems like a good step. I hope they are testing for both active cases and past exposure via serology. Would make an amazing study.

I hope they perform the process in a way the rest of the world can watch and learn from.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
 
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Arjun said:
If they can do it, then everybody can as well. However, China has already been accused of covering up a percentage of their cases, especially when they added 50% more cases in Wuhan shortly after hearing the number of cases explode in New York City.

Almost 20% of Americans are unemployed. I tried applying as a contact tracer, still haven't gotten a response. Its only a matter of prioritizing. I'm still struggling to grasp the extent of cases in India. Apparently, there's been under-reporting by the second most populous nation on this Earth. However, sources say they got the least severe virulent strain
Click to expand...


RE: "If they can do it, then everybody can as well."
Well, if it is physically possible to do it, and I'm sure it is, there's nothing stopping anyone else from doing it. Except:
-Cost: Testing ten million people costs on the order of a billion dollars (in the US). For China it's a non-issue; if it's a priority for them they spend what it takes. There would be an outcry in many other nations about whether or not it was a good use of funds, with political implications. Again, non-issue in China.
-Resources: The materials needed to assemble the kits and process them is substantial. Much of that raw material comes from... you guessed it... China.
-Effort: To test a 1.1 million people a day, including a significant group that are non-mobile and impractical to move to a testing center, takes an army. I'd estimate 20,000 people at a minimum would have to be deployed to collect the specimens. To concentrate that many trained people in one place at one time takes effort.
-Compliance: I can only imagine if in the US someone said there was going to be mandatory testing for ANYTHING. Jeez, we have anti-vaxxers who won't get their kids vaccinated to send them to school. There would be riots by those that were convinced it was a violation of the constitution (maybe they would be right, I'm not sure), plus conspiracy theorists certain they were going to be implanted with trackers or mind control devices or whatever. In China they mostly just assume good intentions and go along with it, plus there are coercive things like social scores and such, plus the gov't can compel on threat of jailing for everyone to comply. In US/other countries you've got lots of people that would be AFRAID to take the test for fear they would be positive and be forced to quarantine until they test negative, because we have a crappy system for handling sick workers that penalizes them for being sick.

I'd love to see the US do this nationwide, minus the "100% compliance" angle. Make it voluntary or even give everyone who does it a $10 break on their taxes or whatever to incent people to do it. I think you'd get enough compliance on a voluntary/incentivized approach to gather great data that would dramatically reduce the scale of the spread. Anyone with a positive test could be eligible to get an immediate retest because the false positive angle is significant. There would also be some false negatives; the testing isn't perfect. But it would be helpful.
 
And this all assumes that those tests are actually good and accurate. China doesn't have much of a track record with quality based on what they sent to Europe.
 
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Frankenscript said:
What's to verify? The state will provide testing capability and the districts will be required to ensure it gets done. The article says each district there will be responsible for submitting a local plan.

Say what you will about the Chinese, if they want something done they have the ability to throw resources (or lives) at it and get it done.

Given they are having another cluster of cases there, this seems like a good step. I hope they are testing for both active cases and past exposure via serology. Would make an amazing study.

I hope they perform the process in a way the rest of the world can watch and learn from.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

lol.. oh yeah, this is gonna work well with those Chinese PRC test kits that have an accuracy of 90%

Gonna have a lot of issues at that level of accuracy.
www.scmp.com

Danish study finds 3 out of 4 Chinese Covid-19 test kits 90 per cent accurate

After complaints from foreign buyers about substandard products, findings will be music to the ears of Chinese manufacturers, though study has yet to be peer-reviewed.
www.scmp.com www.scmp.com
 
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The Economist on the challenges to the financial world order - basically we have an economic war between China PRC and the US.

You can bet that if China's CCP wins it will dramatically change what is said and what you can say - just like the NBA and others stop their people from speaking their minds openly.


How covid-19 could change the financial world order | The Economist
May 12, 2020

The Economist
America has dominated global finance for decades. But could covid-19 tip the balance of financial power in China's favour?
 
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mat200 said:
The Economist on the challenges to the financial world order - basically we have an economic war between China PRC and the US.

You can bet that if China's CCP wins it will dramatically change what is said and what you can say - just like NBA Facebook, Google, Youtube, Twitter and others stop their people from speaking their minds openly.
Click to expand...


Fixed it for ya ;)
 
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Your comment is the comment of the day. I would take their actions with a grain of salt for now.

sebastiantombs said:
And this all assumes that those tests are actually good and accurate. China doesn't have much of a track record with quality based on what they sent to Europe.
Click to expand...
 
Executive summary - transfer of wealth to China PRC. Compare and contrast PRC CCP China with South Africa Apartheid Government.

Wall Street investments banks get 3-7% of IPOs they help become public.
A part of their job is to do due diligence and check the books.

Luckin Coffee - admitted on April 2, 2020 that 40% of its 2019 sales were fabricated.
Luckin Coffee had been listed on NASDAQ for less than 1 year.
Underwriters of Luckin include: Morgan Stanley

Almost all Chinese companies have 2 books.

Special Report: The Coronavirus Pandemic's Wall Street Connection | China in Focus

 
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mat200 said:
lol.. oh yeah, this is gonna work well with those Chinese PRC test kits that have an accuracy of 90%

Gonna have a lot of issues at that level of accuracy.
www.scmp.com

Danish study finds 3 out of 4 Chinese Covid-19 test kits 90 per cent accurate

After complaints from foreign buyers about substandard products, findings will be music to the ears of Chinese manufacturers, though study has yet to be peer-reviewed.
www.scmp.com www.scmp.com
Click to expand...

Not sure your point. The article you cite (which is pre-peer review) gives generally good marks to 3 out of 4 of the test kits (90% detection [10% false negative] and 0% false positives). That's pretty good, on par with the best tests for infectious COVID-19 in the US.
About the fourth Chinese manufacturer test:
"The fourth Chinese test kit in the study was eliminated from the full test process after performing badly (along with one of the American subjects) in an initial round of testing, it said. "
OK, that one sucked, but so did an American test.

The US testing response is not one to hold over other countries. We (the CDC) botched it SO BADLY that we had to bring in the commercial sector to save our bacon in March. And we did that SO LATE that the health system nearly collapsed before we figured out how bad the situation was. Another week or two and it would have been over for us. So, nobody in America should be taking pot-shots at any other country's testing capabilities at this point.
 
Frankenscript said:
Not sure your point. The article you cite (which is pre-peer review) gives generally good marks to 3 out of 4 of the test kits (90% detection [10% false negative] and 0% false positives). That's pretty good, on par with the best tests for infectious COVID-19 in the US.
About the fourth Chinese manufacturer test:
"The fourth Chinese test kit in the study was eliminated from the full test process after performing badly (along with one of the American subjects) in an initial round of testing, it said. "
OK, that one sucked, but so did an American test.

The US testing response is not one to hold over other countries. We (the CDC) botched it SO BADLY that we had to bring in the commercial sector to save our bacon in March. And we did that SO LATE that the health system nearly collapsed before we figured out how bad the situation was. Another week or two and it would have been over for us. So, nobody in America should be taking pot-shots at any other country's testing capabilities at this point.
Click to expand...

Hi @Frankenscript

90% accuracy actually horrific when you test everyone. ( the point when testing 11 Million people.. )

Also remember you need to take into account what happens with the results of the test. Are you put into a COVID-19 concentration hospital?
 
How Hong Kong Did It
With the government flailing, the city’s citizens decided to organize their own coronavirus response.

"...
The secret sauce of Hong Kong’s response was its people and, crucially, the movement that engulfed the city in 2019. Seared with the memory of SARS, and already mobilized for the past year against their unpopular government, the city’s citizens acted swiftly, collectively, and efficiently, in effect saving themselves. The organizational capacity and the civic infrastructure built by the protest movement played a central role in Hong Kong’s grassroots response.

For example, during last fall’s district-council elections, Hong Kong protesters created many resources to guide and mobilize voters in what were otherwise local elections of little consequence, but that had become symbolically important in the middle of the protest wave. One key initiative was websites that provided information on candidates so voters could easily figure out who was pro-government and who was not—not always easy when the candidates were supposed to be discussing garbage collection, not Beijing’s attempts to limit Hong Kong’s constitutional protections. On the very day the first known coronavirus case in Hong Kong was announced, the same protest team behind the candidate information sites immediately created a new website—this time to track cases of COVID-19, monitor hot spots, warn people of places selling fake PPE, and report hospital wait times and other relevant information.
..
Many of the key information sources for Hong Kong protesters had been anonymous channels in the popular app Telegram and their own online forums. These anonymous formats protected the protesters from government repression but created a constant threat of misinformation, as someone could always pretend to be a protester or just be wrong or trolling. Consequently, the protesters learned to become incessant fact-checkers, used to looking up multiple sources and critically analyzing information. Now they turned their powers to critical analysis to the coronavirus: criticizing their own officials, as well as the World Health Organization, which did not advise wearing masks or travel restrictions, and China, which they saw as covering up the initial epidemic (they were right on all counts).

In response to the crisis, Hong Kongers spontaneously adopted near-universal masking on their own, defying the government’s ban on masks. When Lam oscillated between not wearing a mask in public and wearing one but incorrectly, they blasted her online and mocked her incorrect mask wearing. In response to the mask shortage, the foot soldiers of the protest movement set up mask brigades—acquiring and distributing masks, especially to the poor and elderly, who may not be able to spend hours in lines. An “army of volunteers” also spread among the intensely crowded and often decrepit tenement buildings to install and keep filled hand-sanitizer dispensers. During the protest movement, I had become accustomed to seeing shared digital maps that kept track of police blockades and clashes; now digital maps kept track of outbreaks and hand-sanitizer distribution.
..
Thanks partly to their long history of fighting epidemics, Hong Kong also has some of the world’s most prominent experts in infectious diseases. They were cautious about picking open fights with their government or with China, but were clear in prioritizing public health. Defying China’s pronouncements about lack of evidence for human-to-human transmission and ignoring the WHO, which relayed those pronouncements to the world, the experts stated from very early on that they suspected the disease was transmitted among people, and acted accordingly in their recommended safeguards. Despite the Hong Kong government’s continuing ban on face masks, Hong Kong’s health authorities openly credited the near-universal mask wearing among the people for avoiding a surge in cases.
..
"

www.theatlantic.com

How Hong Kong Did It

With the government flailing, the city’s citizens decided to organize their own coronavirus response.
www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com
 
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Pelosi’s new 3 Trillon Stimulus says give the same $1200 stimulus checks to illegal aliens.

Also shielding of any illegal from deportation or action against their employers.

So at a time when legal Americans are out of work...:screwy:

Oh Yeah, and there are also benefits for Lobbyists :smoking:
 
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mat200 said:
Hi @Frankenscript

90% accuracy actually horrific when you test everyone. ( the point when testing 11 Million people.. )

Also remember you need to take into account what happens with the results of the test. Are you put into a COVID-19 concentration hospital?
Click to expand...

The point about 90% accuracy is an important one for sure. Presumably when they do this thing they will be administering a pair of different tests; chances of an infectious person coming up negative on both would be pretty low (theoretically maybe 1% but probably a bit more than that in practice). At least that's how I would arrange it.

I'm sure that positive people will be put into the "concentration hospitals." Doesn't sound like fun for them but would be an effective way of controlling the transmission. China's not real big on individual rights so this won't be an impediment.


I think the world will be watching. As we consider "what happens in the fall, when the temps drop and we lose any "summer effect" and the kids go back to school" ... do we require a COVID test prior to kids returning? Would that even help? How frequently should kids be tested for infectiousness to reduce spread, and for antibody (resistance) to study the epidemiology?

The whole point for us will be avoiding further lockdowns if possible so measures like this need to be considered to see if they will help.

Loved the article about Hong Kong. Such a different mindset and outcome than over here...
 
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