Fun drinking game, take a shot every time the guy in blue says "actually". I'm just kidding. Don't. You'll die."We're all essential..."
They broke into their own gym defying Covid-19 rules, hear why - KOAM
New Jersey Atilis Gym owners Frank Trumbetti and Ian Smith defend opening their gym, defying Covid-19 safety restrictions put in place by the governor. cnnwww.koamnewsnow.com
Pandemic threat? Anyone else concerned?
- Thread starter erkme73
- Start date
tigerwillow1
Known around here
We all see the "fact" claims that covid deaths are overcounted, and the fact claims that they're undercounted. There are the well known cases like the Flordia man who was killed in a motorcycle crash with his cause of death being covid. I'm currently wondering about a more subtle local example: Five people in a local hospice contracted covid and subsequently passed away. Their cause of death was recorded as covid. How the heck can anybody be sure it wasn't their underlying terminal condition that killed them?
mat200
IPCT Contributor
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2017
- Messages
- 13,953
- Reaction score
- 23,264
Just count overall deaths and compare to the average death rate => and you can determine the delta ( difference ) and this gives you the deaths during the pandemic
While this does not give you the "deaths from covid-19" "deaths with covid-19" - it will give you a number that should be harder for anyone to manipulate one way or the other.
Oceanslider
Known around here
Frankenscript
Known around here
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2017
- Messages
- 1,288
- Reaction score
- 1,197
This comes up a lot.
As to overcounts, we see cases like someone dying in a crash or getting shot or whatever and being counted as a COVID-19 death; of course this is ridiculous and whatever administration is ruling these as COVID-19 deaths needs to get their head out of their a$$, pardon my French. Trustworthy data is very important during a crisis like this and these examples, while rare, don't help. Mistakes and poor decisions happen, and are not restricted to one party or another. Bureaucrats of any stripe do dumb things ; it's the law of the jungle.
Then there are systemic failures where data is misrepresented by design. Notable cases were when Florida "accidentally" rearranged data on a graph to support the re-opening narrative (and along the way fired a whistleblower statistician or analyst who called BS on it). What could go wrong? Florida was doing great! Sheesh. The governor should be strung up. Then there are situations that are probably reasonable at heart but get blown up in the press (in May I think, Texas made some rule that seemed to expand the number of "cases" inappropriately, but it didn't really have that effect). Though sensational when reported, there are often reasons for them and they don't have the sort of impact the press thinks they will. Oddly, most of the systemic problems I've seen have been in red states (Texas, Florida, and I think one in Georgia but I don't have my references handy) which is counter-intuitive since I would think they would want to minimize the problems. So, I wonder if there is a "conspiracy" to undermine confidence in the numbers... supporting a narrative that the disease is overblown. But, it's just a thought. I'm not claiming it as reality.
On the "someone in hospice dies of covid" issue, these are usually clear cut. Someone in hospice with terminal cancer who suddenly develops a respiratory infection and dies quickly because they can't breath right, and who tests positive for the virus, clearly was popped off early by the disease and should be counted. People die from COVID-19 in several ways that usually diverge from why they are in hospice to start off: obvious death due to complications in the lungs (COVID lungs have distinct pathology), clotting issues (these are less distinct but still pretty easily separated from traditional causes of death in hospice), and cytokine storm systemic failures, which outside of a couple specific diseases are extremely rarely seen. So, someone in hospice with the virus in their system that dies from any of these causes should be marked as a COVID-19 death. They may have died in a few days weeks or months anyway, but what popped them off that day was the virus. On the other hand if a brain cancer hospice resident has a brain aneurism in their tumor and dies, that's probably not the virus, eh? They shouldn't be counted. It's not always so cut and dry, but they have to do the best they can in making determinations.
Oceanslider
Known around here
Frankenscript
Known around here
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2017
- Messages
- 1,288
- Reaction score
- 1,197
Biden: organized thought, stumbles on delivery.
Trump: delusional thought, clearly articulates his inner cluelessness
Jessie.slimer
BIT Beta Team
Yeah, I'm certain Crazy Joe scared off a bunch of bad dudes with chains with his rusted straight razor. No delusion there. 
Oceanslider
Known around here
You must be so proud.
bigredfish
Known around here
Yeah, I'm certain Crazy Joe scared off a bunch of bad dudes with chains with his rusted straight razor. No delusion there.
Sad.
Jessie.slimer
BIT Beta Team
Or the time he claimed to meet with the Stoneman Douglas High School students in the White House after the tragic school shooting. The problem is that the shooting happened in 2018, a year after he left the White House. Story time with Joe.
Oceanslider
Known around here
Both Sweden and Netherlands medical professionals see no benefit in wearing face masks?
mat200
IPCT Contributor
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2017
- Messages
- 13,953
- Reaction score
- 23,264
Hi @Oceanslider
Is that a question? a statement? or is there a reference missing?
So far all the data and science I have seen proves that surgical or even "face coverings" are useful in source control / reduction of the virus spread from people's mouths and noses.
Makes complete sense why surgeons wear them and gloves to protect their patients. Makes complete sense why a larger population should wear them now, especially indoors and around others.
mat200
IPCT Contributor
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2017
- Messages
- 13,953
- Reaction score
- 23,264
Bolivia - total collapse of the healthcare system in Bolivia
Bolivia overwhelmed by the coronavirus pandemic | DW News
Aug 4, 2020
Bolivia is at the epicenter of the global coronavirus pandemic with the country's health care system overwhelmed by the spread of the disease. Most of the more than 80,000 infections are in the capital La Paz, where hospitals, laboratories and funeral homes are on the brink of collapse. In just five days, the police collected more than 140 bodies from the streets.
Bolivia overwhelmed by the coronavirus pandemic | DW News
Aug 4, 2020
Bolivia is at the epicenter of the global coronavirus pandemic with the country's health care system overwhelmed by the spread of the disease. Most of the more than 80,000 infections are in the capital La Paz, where hospitals, laboratories and funeral homes are on the brink of collapse. In just five days, the police collected more than 140 bodies from the streets.
ctgoldwing
Getting comfortable
Let's leave out Republican / Democrat out of the following article from Business Insider. It's just a demonstration of how fu some people treated this pandemic. The party affiliations could have easily been reversed. Science here was blatantly ignored and the results are just terrible - a LOT of people died for nothing:
Coronavirus cases skyrocketed in Houston in June and July — reflecting a statewide trend — after Abbott reopened the state's economy on May 1, ending one of the nation's shortest stay-home orders. And the governor issued executive orders prohibiting local officials from mandating masks and imposing fines for not complying. White House guidelines instructed states to reopen only after seeing a "downward trajectory" in cases over 14 days, a benchmark that Texas had not met.
In mid-June, Turner and several other Texas mayors joined forces to request that Abbott allow them to issue face mask mandates. The governor initially dismissed the idea — it took him two additional weeks to issue his own state-wide mask-wearing order.
Turner, a Democrat, said the crisis Houston currently faces was predictable. If he'd had the authority to reopen more slowly and enforce mask-wearing and other mitigation efforts, he said there's no question many lives could've been saved.
"In March and April and May, when we had local control and the tools that we needed, this virus was under control and it was very much manageable," Turner told Business Insider in a Wednesday interview. "It was only when those tools were taken away that the numbers went in a different direction."
Turner said he made it "very clear" in April that he thought the state was reopening too quickly and that it ran the risk of "wiping away all the gains that we had achieved." But the "favorable" numbers coming out of Houston in the early stages of the pandemic, he argued, made the state "decide they want[ed] to step in and drive the wagon."
In late June, Abbott was forced to pause Texas' reopening. In early July, he reinstated some measure of local authority, allowing city mayors and county judges to ban gatherings of more than 10 people as cases surged.
The mayor noted that more Houstonians contracted and died of coronavirus in July than in March, April, May, and June combined.
"That did not have to be," he said.
Abbott's office did not immediately respond to Business Insider's request for comment.
'People thought everything was fine'
Turner said the state's decision to usurp his and other local officials' authority in March meant the messaging on mitigation became "very conflicting" and undermined his administration's efforts. He argued it's been more difficult to convince Houstonians to stay home the second time around.
"People thought everything was fine — the wrong signals were sent," Turner said. "I don't really blame the people because if you start opening up, they just assume everything is fine."
When Harris County Judge Lina Hidalgo, who has authority over Texas' biggest county, attempted to mandate mask-wearing and implement a fine for non-compliance in late April, Abbott stepped in to overrule her.
"My executive order, it supersedes local orders, with regard to any type of fine or penalty for anyone not wearing a mask," the governor said.
Earlier this week, Turner ordered Houston police to begin issuing citations and $250 fines to those who don't wear masks in public. The mayor said in order to maximize the public health benefits of mask-wearing, at least 90% of people need to abide by the order. He thinks the threat of a fine will encourage residents to comply.
"You really just can't just tell people to wear masks and engage in social distancing and exercise proper hygiene and hope that people will comply at 90% or more," he said.
From May 1 to August 6, Texas' total case count went from around 29,000 to nearly 480,400, according to the Texas Department of State Health Services. It's now the third worst-hit state in the US.
When the pendulum started to swing, "it moved very fast and very far all at once," Houston Health Authority Dr. David Persse told Business Insider.
Houston is starting to see the beginnings of progress, but is still "chasing the virus," which is disproportionately impacting Latino and Black residents, Turner said.
The city's weekly average positive test rate has dropped from 23% on July 24 to 17% on July 31. The World Health Organization says COVID-19 positivity rates above 5% reflect an uncontrolled outbreak.
August will be a "critical" month to contain the virus, Turner said, as schools are set to reopen for in-person learning on September 8 and flu season is slated to begin in the fall.
The governor has empowered local school boards — not governments — to decide when it's safe to reopen their schools.
- Mayor Sylvester Turner blames Gov. Greg Abbott for hindering his efforts to wrestle control of Houston's coronavirus outbreak.
- Texas is the third hardest hit state in the US, and Harris County, where Houston is located, has the highest caseload.
- Texas reopened on May 1, which Turner believes was premature and obliterated "all the gains that we had achieved."
- The coronavirus killed more Houstonians in July alone than it did in March, April, May, and June combined — a catastrophe that Turner believes could've been avoided.
- Turner said Abbott's decision to overrule local leaders' coronavirus mandates resulted in "very conflicting" messaging, and people still aren't taking social distancing and mask orders seriously as a result.
- Visit Business Insider's homepage for more stories.
Coronavirus cases skyrocketed in Houston in June and July — reflecting a statewide trend — after Abbott reopened the state's economy on May 1, ending one of the nation's shortest stay-home orders. And the governor issued executive orders prohibiting local officials from mandating masks and imposing fines for not complying. White House guidelines instructed states to reopen only after seeing a "downward trajectory" in cases over 14 days, a benchmark that Texas had not met.
In mid-June, Turner and several other Texas mayors joined forces to request that Abbott allow them to issue face mask mandates. The governor initially dismissed the idea — it took him two additional weeks to issue his own state-wide mask-wearing order.
Turner, a Democrat, said the crisis Houston currently faces was predictable. If he'd had the authority to reopen more slowly and enforce mask-wearing and other mitigation efforts, he said there's no question many lives could've been saved.
"In March and April and May, when we had local control and the tools that we needed, this virus was under control and it was very much manageable," Turner told Business Insider in a Wednesday interview. "It was only when those tools were taken away that the numbers went in a different direction."
Turner said he made it "very clear" in April that he thought the state was reopening too quickly and that it ran the risk of "wiping away all the gains that we had achieved." But the "favorable" numbers coming out of Houston in the early stages of the pandemic, he argued, made the state "decide they want[ed] to step in and drive the wagon."
In late June, Abbott was forced to pause Texas' reopening. In early July, he reinstated some measure of local authority, allowing city mayors and county judges to ban gatherings of more than 10 people as cases surged.
The mayor noted that more Houstonians contracted and died of coronavirus in July than in March, April, May, and June combined.
"That did not have to be," he said.
Abbott's office did not immediately respond to Business Insider's request for comment.
'People thought everything was fine'
Turner said the state's decision to usurp his and other local officials' authority in March meant the messaging on mitigation became "very conflicting" and undermined his administration's efforts. He argued it's been more difficult to convince Houstonians to stay home the second time around.
"People thought everything was fine — the wrong signals were sent," Turner said. "I don't really blame the people because if you start opening up, they just assume everything is fine."
When Harris County Judge Lina Hidalgo, who has authority over Texas' biggest county, attempted to mandate mask-wearing and implement a fine for non-compliance in late April, Abbott stepped in to overrule her.
"My executive order, it supersedes local orders, with regard to any type of fine or penalty for anyone not wearing a mask," the governor said.
Earlier this week, Turner ordered Houston police to begin issuing citations and $250 fines to those who don't wear masks in public. The mayor said in order to maximize the public health benefits of mask-wearing, at least 90% of people need to abide by the order. He thinks the threat of a fine will encourage residents to comply.
"You really just can't just tell people to wear masks and engage in social distancing and exercise proper hygiene and hope that people will comply at 90% or more," he said.
From May 1 to August 6, Texas' total case count went from around 29,000 to nearly 480,400, according to the Texas Department of State Health Services. It's now the third worst-hit state in the US.
When the pendulum started to swing, "it moved very fast and very far all at once," Houston Health Authority Dr. David Persse told Business Insider.
Houston is starting to see the beginnings of progress, but is still "chasing the virus," which is disproportionately impacting Latino and Black residents, Turner said.
The city's weekly average positive test rate has dropped from 23% on July 24 to 17% on July 31. The World Health Organization says COVID-19 positivity rates above 5% reflect an uncontrolled outbreak.
August will be a "critical" month to contain the virus, Turner said, as schools are set to reopen for in-person learning on September 8 and flu season is slated to begin in the fall.
The governor has empowered local school boards — not governments — to decide when it's safe to reopen their schools.
Oceanslider
Known around here
Frankenscript
Known around here
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2017
- Messages
- 1,288
- Reaction score
- 1,197
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk