Pandemic threat? Anyone else concerned?

[Oceanslider]

 

[tigerwillow1]

About Trump encouraging people to vote twice...

I watched it yes and am confident in my assessment.

In an attempt to keep this thread from going further off the rails I responded to this in the presidential election thread post #1915.
US Presidential Election 2020 (& Politics) :)

 

[Arjun]

Not from a randomized control group, but enough to bring hope for return to normalcy in the months ahead

 

[bigredfish]

Then there's this..
UN Forced To Admit Gates-Funded Vaccine Is Causing Polio Outbreak In Africa

This is why Im going to check in with @Frankenscript a month after he gets his shot to see how hes doing and decide whether to get mine

 

[Frankenscript]

Then there's this..
UN Forced To Admit Gates-Funded Vaccine Is Causing Polio Outbreak In Africa

This is why Im going to check in with @Frankenscript a month after he gets his shot to see how hes doing and decide whether to get mine

Hey guys, first I do hear the concerns about excess politics in this thread and I pledge to do better.

Next, Fishie, dude... I'm working on a project in the basement but came upstairs to my PC just to answer this post.

This is why you shouldn't get your news from "Fishy" news sources like zerohedge. Some of the facts may be correct, but the story is a fabrication.

To be fair, there have been nearly 200 cases of vaccine-caused cases of polio across the African continent this year. And yes, Gates funding is behind many of the vaccine programs including that one. Yes, those are facts.

But what Zerohedge isn't talking about is the fact that without that vaccine program with massive Gates funding among funding from others, which has been going on for decades, there would have been something like 1.8 M cases of polio there that have been avoided, and the wild polio is now eradicated from the continent due to the program.

From the BBC article I linked:

"In 1996 poliovirus paralysed more than 75,000 children across the continent - every country was affected.
That year Nelson Mandela launched the "Kick Polio Out of Africa" programme, mobilising millions of health workers who went village-to-village to hand-deliver vaccines.
It was backed by a coalition of groups including Rotary International which had spearheaded the polio vaccination drive from the 1980s.
Since 1996 billions of oral polio vaccines have been provided, averting an estimated 1.8 million cases of wild poliovirus."

No vaccine is completely risk free. Unfortunately the polio vaccine that was most deployable in Africa has a rare-but-significant chance of undergoing a mutation that can cause actual polio, being a live vaccine. Clearly with wild polio eradicated the risk from that particular live vaccine is such that it is being discontinued. But while it caused a handful of cases, that vaccine and others before it (which may have been even riskier) saved so many more lives from the scourge of polio.

The Zerohedge article then goes on to cast aspersions on COVID-19 vaccines by association, despite the fact that none of them are live vaccines...

Let's be clear. Once the vaccines complete their trials, and are judged safe and effective, I'll get vaccinated and get my family vaccinated. The benefits will have been shown to outweigh risks. This could be practical in Q1 2021 at earliest. What I won't do is line up for a rushed vaccine with an emergency approval that may be politically motivated. I'll avoid politics, but if you look around you will find a prominent politician angling to get vaccinations started on November 1.

 

[bigredfish]

The story came from WHO
Circulating vaccine-derived poliovirus type 2 – Sudan

WHO assesses the risk of further international spread of cVDPV2 across central Africa and the Horn of Africa to be high.

Like Drudge, ZE just cites content from other sources, very little is their own, They are an aggregator... and my post had nothing to do with politics whatsoever...

UN Forced to Admit Gates-funded Vaccine is Causing Polio Outbreak in Africa - 21st Century Wire

And
AP News reports…

The World Health Organization says a new polio outbreak in Sudan is linked to an ongoing vaccine-sparked epidemic in Chad - a week after the U.N. health agency declared the African continent free of the wild polio virus.
In a statement this week, WHO said two children in Sudan — one from South Darfur state and the other from Gedarif state, close to the border with Ethiopia and Eritrea — were paralyzed in March and April. Both had been recently vaccinated against polio. WHO said initial outbreak investigations show the cases are linked to an ongoing vaccine-derived outbreak in Chad that was first detected last year and is now spreading in Chad and Cameroon.
“There is local circulation in Sudan and continued sharing of transmission with Chad,” the U.N. agency said, adding that genetic sequencing confirmed numerous introductions of the virus into Sudan from Chad.
WHO said it had found 11 additional vaccine-derived polio cases in Sudan and that the virus had also been identified in environmental samples. There are typically many more unreported cases for every confirmed polio patient. The highly infectious disease can spread quickly in contaminated water and most often strikes children under 5.

Nice try

 

[Frankenscript]

The story came from WHO
Circulating vaccine-derived poliovirus type 2 – Sudan

WHO assesses the risk of further international spread of cVDPV2 across central Africa and the Horn of Africa to be high.

Like Drudge, ZE just cites content from other sources, very little is their own, They are an aggregator... and my post had nothing to do with politics whatsoever...

UN Forced to Admit Gates-funded Vaccine is Causing Polio Outbreak in Africa - 21st Century Wire

And
AP News reports…




Nice try

Yes, I read all that before replying. The fact remains that the vaccination program has resulted in the shift from tens of thousands of polio cases per year in Africa each year caused by wild polio, to none or essentially none of the wild polio (certified free this year). The downside of the vaccine is that sometimes it mutates and causes polio, and this is now the case. The outbreak going on now is in the 100-200 cases range, which is far from ideal but a hell of a lot better than it was.

Zerohedge gets a lot of it's clicks with dodgy conspiracy theories and giving things a "radical right and pro-Russia bias"

So, yes the cases in Africa now are caused by the vaccine. The alternative would be wild polio virus affecting a hundred times as many people. Zerhedge didn't mention that. Also the UN didn't "ADMIT" anything. That sounds like they are coming clean with something hidden. The UN and WHO "SAID" that the outbreak was due to the vaccine. Nobody's hiding anything. Face it, Zerohedge took important and positive work which has a comparatively very small downside, going from

So, would you rather the Gates foundation didn't fund the initiative, and have Polio still affecting many more than are affected now?

And it's Zerohedge that is bringing politics into it. From that article:

"Shocking as it sounds, this Big Pharma debacle is not new. After spending some $16 billion over 30 years to eradicate polio, international health bodies have ‘accidentally’ reintroduced the disease to in Pakistan, Afghanistan, and also Iran, as the central Asia region was hit by a virulent strain of polio spawned by the corporate pharmaceutical vaccine distributed there. Also, in 2019, the government of Ethiopia ordered the destruction of 57,000 vials of type 2 oral polio vaccine (mOPV2) following a similar outbreak of vaccine-induced polio.

It’s important to note that the oral polio vaccine being pushed on to the African population by the Global Polio Eradication Initiative (GPEI), a consortium which is supported and funded by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.

All of this should be a cause for concern, especially with western governments and transnational pharmaceutical giant all rushing to roll-out their new Gates-funded experimental coronavirus vaccine for the global population.

Currently, the first experimental COVID-19 vaccine is being tested on the African population through GAVI Vaccine Alliance, another organization funded by the Gates Foundation. A large round of human trials will take place in South Africa, locally managed by the University of the Witwatersrand in Johannesburg—yet another Gates-funded institution."

First, this isn't a debacle. The vaccine worked and cut the problem down by 99%. And it wasn't "pushed on Africa" but was done with help of the countries there that wanted to eradicate the disease.

Then they link the Gates foundation (now cast as an evil organization) with the COVID-19 vaccine, making it sound like now Gates is pushing vaccine trials on poor African folks. Well you know what? I have two coworkers here in America participating in COVID-19 vaccine trials voluntarily. Trials have to be done on a global scale to see if it is both safe and effective among different populations with different genetics and ways of life. That's the way it is. IF we don't test the vaccine in Africa, we can't safely deploy a vaccine in Africa.

Face it: the article is crap. It takes some facts, presents them without the larger context, and links it to COVID which is a political hot button right now.

 

[bigredfish]

We’ll just have to disagree

Did you read the other two cited sources, including the AP?

Read it 3 times still don’t see politics...and I’ve yet to see this “pro Russian” bias. Do you guys find Russians under your pillow?

 

[bigredfish]

Hmmm not the first story about this problem ...here’s some liberal media links... but yeah, Zero Hedge/Russians

I’m not against medical science, I just think one has to educate oneself and not take for granted that the scientists are always right.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/04/14/cutter-polio-vaccine-paralyzed-children-coronavirus/

UN says new polio outbreak in Sudan caused by oral vaccine

The World Health Organization says a new polio outbreak in Sudan is linked to an ongoing vaccine-sparked epidemic in Chad

abcnews.go.com

More polio cases now caused by vaccine than by wild virus

More polio cases now caused by vaccine than by wild virus as 4 African countries report them

abcnews.go.com

Oral polio vaccine causing paralysis in kids: Study

NEW DELHI: At least 400 children in India would have developed polio after receiving the oral polio vaccine (OPV) over the past five years, a top Indian paediat

www.newindianexpress.com

 

[Parley]

China is a far bigger threat to this country than Russia is. The economy of Russia is about equal to the state of Texas. Remember Covid-19 originated in China.

 

[beepsilver]

They are programmed to think and react to certain stimuli in a certain pattern. You can't change their mind even if you expose them to authentic information, even if you prove that white is white, and black is black, you still cannot change the basic perception and illogical behavior or viewpoint. The process of indoctrination is irreversible.

It's called cognitive dissonance; Frankenscript has it something terrible.

 

[Arjun]

 

[tigerwillow1]

It's sounding like the widely used PCR test doesn't give a reliable yes/no answer, but a level reading that's open to interpretation, which of course is viewed differently by different experts. At the extreme, some of the experts believe that some large test groups should have be given a positive result rate of about 10% of what was actually stated, or stated the other way, that 90% of the positives were false positives This link is to queen of fake news New York Times.
Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be.

 

[Frankenscript]

It's sounding like the widely used PCR test doesn't give a reliable yes/no answer, but a level reading that's open to interpretation, which of course is viewed differently by different experts. At the extreme, some of the experts believe that some large test groups should have be given a positive result rate of about 10% of what was actually stated, or stated the other way, that 90% of the positives were false positives This link is to queen of fake news New York Times.
Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be.

Great article. Thanks for posting. This is the best review I've seen of the sensitivity problem with our current PCR-based testing. PCR testing in diagnostic settings usually records the cycle threshold (CT) count specifically to give insight into the pathogen load; it's weird that it doesn't seem to be done here.

Please re-read the article and look for the word/phrase false positive. You won't find it, but I understand how the article would be interpreted that way. There's a big difference between saying "these positive results shouldn't be scored positive" and "these results were false positives." These are two very different statements; they mean different things.

A false positive would be to say "yes, coronavirus RNA was found in this individual" when in actuality none was there (PCR can work against DNA or RNA; coronaviruses are RNA based). That's not what's happening at all. The tests are so sensitive at the 37 or 40 cycle counts that it is picking up leftover bits from recent but past infections (which we don't want) as well as very early infections (which we do want) and current spreadable infections (which is the main thing we want to pick up). So, someone with "barely any virus" picked up by the test isn't a false positive. They had virus and they were positive. However as the article says, many of them were not a threat.

It shows that these tests answer the wrong question in many cases. The question we need tests to answer is "Is this person contagious today?" because the answer to that is something we can act properly upon. By lowering the cycle count we can better answer that question instead of "is there any coronavirus material present?" But inexpensive strip tests people could use daily would be a much better solution; PCR tests even saliva based would be too expensive and turnaround takes too long.

 

[tigerwillow1]

There's a big difference between saying "these positive results shouldn't be scored positive" and "these results were false positives." These are two very different statements; they mean different things.

I agree you're correct in this statement. I struggled with how to form a short summary and using false positive was the best I could come up with. I also struggled with using the term "level reading", which isn't technically correct. Once "cycle counts" are in the mix it's going to fly past almost everybody's glazed-over eyes, me included. My takeaway is that while the the general public has been led to believe the test results are a clean-cut binary positive or negative, it's not so simple, and translating the not-so-simple result for public consumption is misleading, or not, depending on which expert is making the judgement.

 

[Frankenscript]

I agree you're correct in this statement. I struggled with how to form a short summary and using false positive was the best I could come up with. I also struggled with using the term "level reading", which isn't technically correct. Once "cycle counts" are in the mix it's going to fly past almost everybody's glazed-over eyes, me included. My takeaway is that while the the general public has been led to believe the test results are a clean-cut binary positive or negative, it's not so simple, and translating the not-so-simple result for public consumption is misleading, or not, depending on which expert is making the judgement.

Great statement.

I'm very curious to know how our US handling of this whole issue compares to the rest of the world. I've checked in with a doctor I know who is part of the Army pandemic response team in the south. He doesn't let political BS get in the way of making good decisions for patients. He has been a great source of information since this all started. I will report back what he has to say.

Meanwhile, I just hope that the excellent NY Times article doesn't get misrepresented in the alternative press. I can see the headline now: "CDC admits 90% of COVID-19 positive tests are false positives."

 

[Frankenscript]

Hmmm not the first story about this problem ...here’s some liberal media links... but yeah, Zero Hedge/Russians

I’m not against medical science, I just think one has to educate oneself and not take for granted that the scientists are always right.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/04/14/cutter-polio-vaccine-paralyzed-children-coronavirus/

UN says new polio outbreak in Sudan caused by oral vaccine

The World Health Organization says a new polio outbreak in Sudan is linked to an ongoing vaccine-sparked epidemic in Chad

abcnews.go.com

More polio cases now caused by vaccine than by wild virus

More polio cases now caused by vaccine than by wild virus as 4 African countries report them

abcnews.go.com

Oral polio vaccine causing paralysis in kids: Study

NEW DELHI: At least 400 children in India would have developed polio after receiving the oral polio vaccine (OPV) over the past five years, a top Indian paediat

www.newindianexpress.com

It's called cognitive dissonance; Frankenscript has it something terrible.

Guys, no cognitive dissonance. Please read my posts again. I completely agree the vaccines caused the outbreaks; I've said this repeatedly. And yes, the Gates foundation has for decades been a big donor to the effort.

My concern is that the article from Zerohedge made it sound like the vaccination program was foisted on the African people and did harm. Without those vaccines, tens of thousands of kids would get polio per year. As it is, it's in the dozens or hundreds. The live vaccine is risky, yes, but it's cheap and easily deployable via oral drops to disadvantaged folks in towns where there aren't going to be refrigerators/freezers to store it properly, or needles to administer it. If we relied purely on a Salk (killed) vaccine, we wouldn't be at the point where the wild polio is eradicated from the continent; we'd still have many thousands of cases per year. The vaccine-derived outbreaks are now in mop-up mode using specialized teams for that purpose. Zerohedge didn't mention that, because they were too busy switching to mentioning that Gates funding is also behind vaccines against COVID-19.

Anyway, gentlemen and any ladies present, I wish all of you well for Labor Day. In honor of the holiday I will be recusing myself from politics, pandemics, and any other annoying things that start with P. I will be reflecting on the efforts of everyone around the country to make it what it is, and will spend time with family and a few tasks around the house. I will rejoin you all on Tuesday. Be safe.

 

[bigredfish]

The story didn’t come from Zero Hedge but reading skills aren’t your strong suit,

ZE is primarily an aggregator. The story came from multiple liberal media sources but was a reprint from

W.H.O. Now Admits That Gates-funded Vaccine is Causing Polio Outbreak in Africa - 21st Century Wire

21WIRE + AP | Questions arise over this latest failed vaccine effort funded by Bill Gates.

21stcenturywire.com

hint
Look at the very top of most ZE articles and you will discover the source.

As to the repeated fairy tale of them being Russian biased ( not that that had anything at all to do with the story) they have been routinely slamming The Russians in story after story.

They are FAR more accurate than CNN in a daily basis and in your hurry to denounce ZE you missed the entire point of the post. That being that not every vaccine is initially safe and that many of us will wait with a cautious eye when the first one comes out. That’s how this particular conversation started. Not some extreme notion that we don’t need vaccines,

In other words, nice try

 

[SJGUSMC21]

Lots of information on this page, great reading, but this stood our for me and I agree:

'Let's be clear. Once the vaccines complete their trials, and are judged safe and effective, I'll get vaccinated and get my family vaccinated. The benefits will have been shown to outweigh risks. This could be practical in Q1 2021 at earliest. What I won't do is line up for a rushed vaccine with an emergency approval that may be politically motivated. I'll avoid politics, but if you look around you will find a prominent politician angling to get vaccinations started on November 1. '

 

[BobRegnar]

The "rushed" vaccine is another lie of the left. Trump may be obnoxious but he's not Obama.

The real question is how effective can it be and against which mutation of the virus. How effective are flu vaccines?