Jessie.slimer
BIT Beta Team
They can't even test reliably for the virus, yet they think they almost have a vaccine for it. I'll pass.
Pandemic threat? Anyone else concerned?
- Thread starter erkme73
- Start date
@sebastiantombs I'm serious, I actually worked outside all day today 
I licked dirt off the ground today. This whole virus is all over our heads
sebastiantombs
Known around here
I did too, but I didn't lick any dirt, just painted some fencing.
Frankenscript
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The vaccines (intentional plural) are going through proper trials, and at the conclusion of those trials, they could be judged safe and effective, and I would get in line for any of them that passed muster. The "rushed" idea enters in due to Trump bullying his FDA commissioner to get one out, or at least approved via emergency authorization, before the election. This is a fact, there's no wiggle room for interpretation or spin. Trump has been repeatedly pushing for this. Here's video of him talking about it.
Trump Sept 7 Conference
Listen to this recent clip, all the way through, first around the 50 second mark where he talks about it getting out by "a special date" and toward the end he suggests it might be ready even in October.
The only way for the vaccine to get approval in October is by an emergency use authorization, granted by the FDA, based on the Pfizer vaccine that is farthest along. This is an mRNA vaccine, a technology not deployed in humans ever before. It's a cool technology and looks well tuned to be effective in this circumstance, but there's no way it should be deployed until the data collection from all ~30k subjects has been completed and reviewed for safety. Trials are sometimes stopped early when efficacy is demonstrated conclusively and when safety is not an issue. A new vaccine methodology like this should not get shortcut safety data collection; the risks are enormous.
Here are some industry trade publications discussing it:
FDA commissioner needs to push back and tell Trump the agency is not part of the 'deep state'
FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn needs to make clear – not only to the public, but to Trump – that FDA decisions are made to serve the public, not help re-elect a president.
www.statnews.com
Drug makers rebut Trump tweet that FDA 'deep state' is delaying Covid-19 vaccines and drugs
There is no evidence to support Trump’s accusation, and top biotechnology executives were fast to praise the speed at which the FDA has moved.
www.statnews.com
Experts see a chance for a Covid-19 vaccine approval this fall — if it’s done right
Experts aren’t ruling out the possibility that a Covid-19 vaccine could be approved this fall if it is very effective. But there are risks.
www.statnews.com
And if you have the stomach for a CNN article, read here:
Trump puts pressure on FDA for coronavirus silver bullet ahead of Election Day
Facing a persistent polling deficit and a struggling economy, President Donald Trump has cranked up pressure on administration health officials to expedite work both on a coronavirus vaccine and on treatments that might signal to voters there is an end in sight to the life-altering pandemic that...
www.cnn.com
As to how effective the vaccine can be, and how it compares with flu vaccines: The virus has mutated a bit but not in the regions that the immune response is focused on, so as far as I've read, at the moment this isn't an issue. The vaccine, if it raises the expected antibodies that were shown in small scale trials, would be expected to be effective in preventing infection. But until this is tested, we won't know for sure, and this takes large populations and time for the treatment versus placebo arms to diverge in terms of how many people get covid in each arm.
Comparison with the flu vaccine isn't productive. Flu vaccines are very good at preventing infection from the strains the vaccine is raised against (typically, a flu shot is based on three to four strains anticipated to be circulating by the time the vaccine is deployed). The problem is we still can't predict with certainty which strains will be in widest circulation many months down the road. The time between deciding which strains to include in the vaccine, and when flu season hits, gives time for things to go a different way than predicted, and in these cases the vaccine doesn't work very well because different strains are causing most of the flu than the vaccine protects against.
Frankenscript
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One more update from Statnews:
www.statnews.com
I'm still catching up after disconnecting for the holiday.
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Pharma drew a line in the sand over Covid-19 vaccine readiness — because someone had to
President Trump may want a Covid-19 vaccine to ship before the election, but drug makers don't appear ready to cooperate — at least, not on his terms.
www.statnews.com
I'm still catching up after disconnecting for the holiday.
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EMPIRETECANDY
IPCT Vendor
Today one of my friend accept the Cov-19 Vacinne in China, good lunk to him, hope can work well.
Frankenscript
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Interesting article on mutations:
www.nature.com
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The coronavirus is mutating — does it matter?
Different SARS-CoV-2 strains haven’t yet had a major impact on the course of the pandemic, but they might in future.
www.nature.com
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Parley
Known around here
With Covid-19 winding down the Democrats have a savior just around the corner. Flu season. With the flu they will have more deaths to blame on Covid-19. 
Armed&Overclocked
Pulling my weight
something to keep in mind regarding how effective a vaccine is, especially a new one.
it is established practice that once a vaccine has been given approval for broad use it is still monitored for safety and effectiveness and if necessary re-evaluated afterwards.
Even using large sample sizes you cant always get a real world snapshot of how a drug will perform until it actually hits the real world. So hypothetically lets say a vaccine gets FDA approval on feb 1st. If covid is still kicking about it will probably be around april-ish before get an inkling as to how effective it is.
So if we haven't gotten covid down to a certain manageable threshold by the time the weather starts to really cool down it's possible we will see another series of spikes.
it is established practice that once a vaccine has been given approval for broad use it is still monitored for safety and effectiveness and if necessary re-evaluated afterwards.
Even using large sample sizes you cant always get a real world snapshot of how a drug will perform until it actually hits the real world. So hypothetically lets say a vaccine gets FDA approval on feb 1st. If covid is still kicking about it will probably be around april-ish before get an inkling as to how effective it is.
this is actually worrisome. Covid has similar environmental preferences as the flu, with cool/dry weather being preferred, and hot/humid being least preferred.With Covid-19 winding down the Democrats have a savior just around the corner. Flu season. With the flu they will have more deaths to blame on Covid-19.
So if we haven't gotten covid down to a certain manageable threshold by the time the weather starts to really cool down it's possible we will see another series of spikes.
Armed&Overclocked
Pulling my weight
here in virginia its been pretty nice this week with temps 75-83 with moderate humidity.
though it usually stays warm and muggy in my specific area until after halloween sadly. cant wait until i can turn the AC off and just leave it off
though it usually stays warm and muggy in my specific area until after halloween sadly. cant wait until i can turn the AC off and just leave it off
BobRegnar
Getting comfortable
The vaccines (intentional plural) are going through proper trials, and at the conclusion of those trials, they could be judged safe and effective, and I would get in line for any of them that passed muster. The "rushed" idea enters in due to Trump bullying his FDA commissioner to get one out, or at least approved via emergency authorization, before the election. This is a fact, there's no wiggle room for interpretation or spin. Trump has been repeatedly pushing for this. Here's video of him talking about it.
Trump Sept 7 Conference
Listen to this recent clip, all the way through, first around the 50 second mark where he talks about it getting out by "a special date" and toward the end he suggests it might be ready even in October.
The only way for the vaccine to get approval in October is by an emergency use authorization, granted by the FDA, based on the Pfizer vaccine that is farthest along. This is an mRNA vaccine, a technology not deployed in humans ever before. It's a cool technology and looks well tuned to be effective in this circumstance, but there's no way it should be deployed until the data collection from all ~30k subjects has been completed and reviewed for safety. Trials are sometimes stopped early when efficacy is demonstrated conclusively and when safety is not an issue. A new vaccine methodology like this should not get shortcut safety data collection; the risks are enormous.
Here are some industry trade publications discussing it:
FDA commissioner needs to push back and tell Trump the agency is not part of the 'deep state'
FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn needs to make clear – not only to the public, but to Trump – that FDA decisions are made to serve the public, not help re-elect a president.
Drug makers rebut Trump tweet that FDA 'deep state' is delaying Covid-19 vaccines and drugs
There is no evidence to support Trump’s accusation, and top biotechnology executives were fast to praise the speed at which the FDA has moved.
Experts see a chance for a Covid-19 vaccine approval this fall — if it’s done right
Experts aren’t ruling out the possibility that a Covid-19 vaccine could be approved this fall if it is very effective. But there are risks.
And if you have the stomach for a CNN article, read here:
Trump puts pressure on FDA for coronavirus silver bullet ahead of Election Day
Facing a persistent polling deficit and a struggling economy, President Donald Trump has cranked up pressure on administration health officials to expedite work both on a coronavirus vaccine and on treatments that might signal to voters there is an end in sight to the life-altering pandemic that...
As to how effective the vaccine can be, and how it compares with flu vaccines: The virus has mutated a bit but not in the regions that the immune response is focused on, so as far as I've read, at the moment this isn't an issue. The vaccine, if it raises the expected antibodies that were shown in small scale trials, would be expected to be effective in preventing infection. But until this is tested, we won't know for sure, and this takes large populations and time for the treatment versus placebo arms to diverge in terms of how many people get covid in each arm.
Comparison with the flu vaccine isn't productive. Flu vaccines are very good at preventing infection from the strains the vaccine is raised against (typically, a flu shot is based on three to four strains anticipated to be circulating by the time the vaccine is deployed). The problem is we still can't predict with certainty which strains will be in widest circulation many months down the road. The time between deciding which strains to include in the vaccine, and when flu season hits, gives time for things to go a different way than predicted, and in these cases the vaccine doesn't work very well because different strains are causing most of the flu than the vaccine protects against.
One thing occurs to me reading all the articles, where's the scenario where Trump is the good guy doing the right thing? Underlying every one of them Trump is the dirty bastard concerned only for himself and to hell with everyone else.
This is how the dems set up every possible outcome. Orange man bad. It's either Trump's fault or someone else managed to do the right thing in defiance of Trump.
This is the great sickness of the left. Nothing else matters but destroying Trump.
Frankenscript
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Ok, please give me some examples from your perspective of Orange Man Good with respect to the pandemic.
I will start you off: I supported the early travel ban from infected areas of China. While I believe he did it for his own reasons supporting his anti China narrative, I think it was the right move.
Can you point to other good moves you think he made pandemic-wise?
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bigredfish
Known around here
Well he didn't kill 10K or 20K old folks like the Gov of NY...
bigredfish
Known around here
Parley
Known around here
Really? Just off the top of my head he went all out to get the respirators made asap. He brought in the hospital ships. How about the hospital in the Javits center. He gave the governors the aide they requested and even got a positive response from Governor Newsom of all people. He is going all out to get a vaccine made. You must be stuck on CNN and MSNBC.
Jessie.slimer
BIT Beta Team
Taken from the whitehouse.gov site:
- Took early action to cut off travel from China
- Built the world’s leading testing system from nothing
- Enacted mitigation measures to slow the spread
- Mobilized public and private sectors to secure needed supplies
- Took action to protect vulnerable Americans
- Launched effort to deliver a vaccine and therapeutics in record time
- Provided support to workers and businesses
- Paved way for reopening to get America working again
- Surged resources to hot spots as they arose
- Confronted China as origin of the virus while Democrats and media cowered
- While Democrats were focused on their impeachment sham, President Trump took swift and decisive action to stop travel from China in January and enhanced airport screenings to help stop cases from coming into the United States as long as possible.
- In his February 4th State of the Union address, President Trump pledged to “take all necessary steps to safeguard our citizens from the virus,” while the Democrats’ response made not a single mention of the virus or even the threat of China.
- In order to accurately trace and combat this virus, President Trump set out to build the world’s best testing system, and that’s exactly what he did.
- We have already conducted more than 65 million tests, far outpacing any other country.
- President Trump released guidance recommending mitigation measures critical to slowing the spread of the virus, and the American people stepped up to do their part.
- Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx have attested to the fact that President Trump took action as soon as the data was presented to him.
- The President directed his Administration to secure and distribute needed medical supplies to states in need – resulting in billions of PPE delivered so far.
- At the President’s urging, private companies shifted production to supplying masks, ventilators, hand sanitizer, testing supplies, and more.
- President Trump has acted under the Defense Production Act more than 30 times to ensure we have the supplies we need.
- When we faced a potentially catastrophic shortage of ventilators, President Trump took action to produce 100,000 ventilators and ensure no patient who needs one goes without a ventilator.
- The Administration quickly established guidelines for nursing homes and expanded telehealth opportunities to protect our vulnerable seniors.
- The President took action to ensure that uninsured Americans are able to get the COVID-19 care and testing they need.
- President Trump directed Secretary Carson to focus the White House Opportunity and Revitalization Council on underserved communities impacted by COVID-19.
- The Administration is investing approximately $2 billion in community health centers, helping their 28 million patients in medically underserved areas receive the care and testing they need.
- President Trump understood early on that in order to defeat this virus once and for all and protect Americans, we need a vaccine and therapeutics.
- President Trump revolutionized the clinical trial process to ensure Americans get a safe vaccine as quickly as possible, by providing unprecedented investments in leading vaccine candidates to simultaneously produce them as they are tested and developed.
- Thanks to President Trump’s efforts, coronavirus vaccine trials have progressed at record speeds, with multiple candidates already in or near the final stage of clinical trials.
- The President negotiated and launched the Paycheck Protection Program – helping save 51 million American jobs.
- President Trump secured direct payments to help the countless Americans who are hurting due to the pandemic.
- President Trump took executive action to give tax relief to workers, ensure unemployment benefits for those out of work, prevent families from losing their homes to eviction or foreclosure, and provide student debt relief for Americans already hurting due to the virus.
- As we built out our critical medical supplies, flattened the curve, and rapidly expanded testing, states across the country were able to safely move towards reopening.
- President Trump ensured they had the data and resources to reopen on the correct timeframe.
- The President has provided support to states facing new emergences of the virus, including surging testing sites, deploying medical personnel, and advising on mitigation strategies.
- President Trump has rightly called out China’s handling of the virus for refusing to be transparent and failing to contain the virus before it spread.
- The President held the WHO accountable for its egregious bias towards China that jeopardizes the safety of Americans.
BobRegnar
Getting comfortable
"I will start you off: I supported the early travel ban from infected areas of China. While I believe he did it for his own reasons supporting his anti China narrative, I think it was the right move."
You can't help yourself. Trump blundered into a good move while being a dirty bastard?
For starters, I don't put government in a cradle-to-grave caretaker role. When you do you are going to get things like dem Fauci saying it's no big deal, no reason for us to worry, and masks do more harm than good. The blind leading the blind.
Trump did what only government can do, like travel banS.
He also assembled a task force of professionals to speak to the public on a daily basis.
He worked hard to fight the panic the dems were stoking.
He gave people huge sums of money to help them make ends meet while forced out of work while the dems tried to take advantage and push their political agenda.
Trump gave states all the help they asked for and offered more. They all praised him until Pelosi/Schumer called them on it.
Trump (and Trump alone) tried to stand up for personal freedoms (guaranteed by the Constitution) while the dems delighted in taking them away (and still do).
Jessie.slimer
BIT Beta Team
All stuff that can't be done from your basement...