Testing out cameras - not sure why the big difference on one of them

dreniarb

n3wb
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
14
Reaction score
3
I'm in the process of testing out 4 different cameras. I have them setup pointing in the same direction. Last night was the first night I had them outside. I'm really impressed by the GW6750 camera. I'm curious if anyone knows why it's in color and more vibrant than the other 3? I've looked through the settings but nothing stands out to me.

The camera models clockwise starting from the top left:

GW-GW6750IP (the OSD says h.264 but Iit's h.265. i just neglected to update the OSD text)
Hikvision DS-2CD2043G0-I
Hikvisiion DT2A404
Annke I91BL (which appears to just be a rebranded hikvision, or vice versa)

I love that the GW6750 has color and a more vibrant picture but the focus is manual instead of auto which I don't care for. Would love to get the same quality from the other cameras. But I don't know what setting I'm looking for.

Any thoughts?

Image_20210615084430846.png
 

SouthernYankee

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Feb 15, 2018
Messages
5,170
Reaction score
5,320
Location
Houston Tx
All these cameras have small low cost sensors.
Your pictures are useless.
You can not judge cameras with still shots. Post video at night with a person walking 15 ft in front of the camera with no zoom, can you ID the person and will it stand up in a court of law. If not the camera is a security surveillance failure.

Good low light cameras have a sensor size of 1/1.8, not 1/3.
general camera rules
1) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
2) Camera Sensor size, bigger is general better Sensor Size Chart
3) Camera lens size, a bigger number give more range but less field of view. Which Security Camera Lens Size Should I Buy?


Some dahua cameras to look at, Hikvision make similar cameras.

IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED . Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+) - 4MP starlight
.................... Dahua IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED review
IPC-T5442TM-AS ..... Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ - 4MP starlight+
IPC-HDW5442t-ZE .... Dahua IPC-HDW5442T-ZE 4MP Varifocal Turret - Night Perfomance testing -- variable focus 2.7 mm-12mm 4 MP Starlight
IPC-B5442E-ZE ...... Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+ -- variable 2.7mm-12mm bullet
IPC-B5442E-Z4E .... bullet 8mm-32mm variable focus zoom 4MP
IPC-HFW7442H-Z ..... Review - Dahua IPC-HFW7442H-Z 4MP Ultra AI Varifocal Bullet Camera -- 4 MP variable focus AI
 

dreniarb

n3wb
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
14
Reaction score
3
Well it's a screenshot from Blue Iris which is showing the sub stream of the cameras. i wasn't necessarily going for picture quality when posting it. more curious about the colors.

I do appreciate the info you guys have given. I'll read through the notes. Currently in the testing phase of things. If we're going to be purchasing 30+ cameras I want to make sure we get the best ones we can within our budget.

As for the way things are set now with those 4 cameras I did what yankee suggested and looked for someone walking by. I believe it's an infrared issue. Looks like two of the cameras do not have their infrared lights turned on.

Image_20210615145256323 - Copy.png
 

zano1899

n3wb
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Messages
8
Reaction score
6
Location
uruguay
Well it's a screenshot from Blue Iris which is showing the sub stream of the cameras. i wasn't necessarily going for picture quality when posting it. more curious about the colors.

I do appreciate the info you guys have given. I'll read through the notes. Currently in the testing phase of things. If we're going to be purchasing 30+ cameras I want to make sure we get the best ones we can within our budget.

As for the way things are set now with those 4 cameras I did what yankee suggested and looked for someone walking by. I believe it's an infrared issue. Looks like two of the cameras do not have their infrared lights turned on.
Surely the ones that are seen in color are fullcolor technology, do they have LEDs or just the lens? the ones I have tried without LEDs at night if there is no external light source you can see absolutely nothing
 

dreniarb

n3wb
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
14
Reaction score
3
Do they have LEDs? Good question. According to the descriptions for them they do. I'll mess with some settings this evening and see what happens. If I have a chance I'll also move them to an area that's not lit well and see how they do.
 

mat200

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Jan 17, 2017
Messages
14,058
Reaction score
23,421
I'm in the process of testing out 4 different cameras. I have them setup pointing in the same direction. Last night was the first night I had them outside. I'm really impressed by the GW6750 camera. I'm curious if anyone knows why it's in color and more vibrant than the other 3? I've looked through the settings but nothing stands out to me.

The camera models clockwise starting from the top left:

GW-GW6750IP (the OSD says h.264 but Iit's h.265. i just neglected to update the OSD text)
Hikvision DS-2CD2043G0-I
Hikvisiion DT2A404
Annke I91BL (which appears to just be a rebranded hikvision, or vice versa)

I love that the GW6750 has color and a more vibrant picture but the focus is manual instead of auto which I don't care for. Would love to get the same quality from the other cameras. But I don't know what setting I'm looking for.

Any thoughts?

View attachment 92477
FWIW:

GW-GW6750IP : sensor info 1/2.9” 6 Megapixel progressive scan CMOS
Hikvision DS-2CD2043G0-I : sensor info 4MP 1/3" Progressive Scan CMOS
Hikvisiion DT2A404 : sensor info 4MP 1/3" progressive scan CMOS
Annke I91BL : sensor info ... ( did not quickly find it.. )
 

zano1899

n3wb
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Messages
8
Reaction score
6
Location
uruguay
Do they have LEDs? Good question. According to the descriptions for them they do. I'll mess with some settings this evening and see what happens. If I have a chance I'll also move them to an area that's not lit well and see how they do.
Sorry I had not seen the models, none of them have led light, if they have infrared illuminators
 

zano1899

n3wb
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Messages
8
Reaction score
6
Location
uruguay
FWIW:

GW-GW6750IP : sensor info 1/2.9” 6 Megapixel progressive scan CMOS
Hikvision DS-2CD2043G0-I : sensor info 4MP 1/3" Progressive Scan CMOS
Hikvisiion DT2A404 : sensor info 4MP 1/3" progressive scan CMOS
Annke I91BL : sensor info ... ( did not quickly find it.. )
Annke I91BL
I found different variables of the c800 model not exactly with those initials, varying in all the last letter and all with the same 1/2.5" Sony Progressive Scan CMOS
 

sebastiantombs

Known around here
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Messages
11,511
Reaction score
27,700
Location
New Jersey
The last set of captures you have posted shows that none of them are very good, color or black and white. Look at the blur. I use sub streams on BI and can easily beat those with the sub streams, let alone main streams, 5MP on a 1/2.9" sensor will not produce good motion video, in color or B&W, at night. Slowing the shutter down will produce "nice" color still scenes, but when something moves all you get is a blurry mess.
 

dreniarb

n3wb
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
14
Reaction score
3
I could raise the settings on the substream but isn't the point of the substream in BI to reduce CPU usage by giving a much lower quality feed but still a good enough feed to detect motion? By design it shouldn't be very good, right?
 

fenderman

Staff member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
36,907
Reaction score
21,291
I could raise the settings on the substream but isn't the point of the substream in BI to reduce CPU usage by giving a much lower quality feed but still a good enough feed to detect motion? By design it shouldn't be very good, right?
The substream shows terrible motion blur. This will not be better with the main stream. These are some of the worst possible camera choices. Old outdated models and sensors.
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
25,301
Reaction score
49,286
Location
USA
I could raise the settings on the substream but isn't the point of the substream in BI to reduce CPU usage by giving a much lower quality feed but still a good enough feed to detect motion? By design it shouldn't be very good, right?
Blur wouldn't be there, even in substreams, if you had the cameras off of default/auto settings...image may be a little soft, but your is ghost/blur city.

Light is certainly a much needed friend to these types of cameras! Auto/default settings rarely produce the best results, especially at night.

In my opinion, shutter and gain are the two most important and then base the others off of it.

Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.

Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-30 (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared.

Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night image results in Casper during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?

So if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 30ms as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.

You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image.

You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.

But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.

Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And when if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible. HLC at 50, unless for LPR, will certainly degrade the image with motion.

But like others said, those are horrible MP/sensor ratios and will struggle at night.
 

sebastiantombs

Known around here
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Messages
11,511
Reaction score
27,700
Location
New Jersey
I use "D1" for all the sub streams, the lowest resolution possible. Those sub streams still are better than what you have captured so far. As fenderman just said, raising resolution won't cure motion blur. Motion blur is the result of the shutter speed being too slow. To get reasonably good motion video the slowest a shutter can be set at is about 1/60, 16.66ms, and really works best at 1/100 or higher.
 

dreniarb

n3wb
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
14
Reaction score
3
Thanks for the tips. I've adjusted the shutter speed to see how that helps. i know these pictures from the nighttime don't look great but the ones during the day look pretty good. at the default settings i'm able to pause an exported video and read the license plates on passing vehicles. Everything is quite crisp. but nighttime definitely needs help.

I'm not sure if anyone will pass by this evening so i might not see what kind of difference the shutter speed adjustment makes tonight. but i will probably spend friday and/or saturday night at the office adjusting things.

Thanks again.
 

SouthernYankee

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Feb 15, 2018
Messages
5,170
Reaction score
5,320
Location
Houston Tx
One of the problems with the test is that you have all 4 cameras mounted next to each other, and active at the same time. So you have 4x the IR. Test with only one camera on at a time. At night post a 30 second video with motion from each camera. Post a screen shot of the settings from each camera.
 
Top