US President Signs Bill Into Law Requiring FCC To Ban Further Authorizations of Dahua and Hikvision

fenderman

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I read the bill and the summary from H.R.3919 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): Secure Equipment Act of 2021:
"This bill requires the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to establish rules stating that it will no longer review or approve any authorization application for equipment that is on the list of covered communications equipment or services. (Listed communications equipment or services are those that the FCC determines pose an unacceptable risk to national security or the security and safety of U.S. persons.)"

I may be misunderstanding this but it seems to me these companies won't be able to sell into the US market.
I'm just trying to get to the truth and appreciate all the back and forth comments and helpful suggestions.
I want to buy cameras that will be supported long into the future. I've seen many technologies become obsolete due to lack of software updates, patching, support, parts availability, etc.
My concern is if banned these cameras will have limited life. Is that a valid concern?

I do plan to follow your suggestions on securing the local camera network to prevent hacking (hopefully!)
Wow. Reading comprehension is not your forte. I laid it out for you in bullet points with DIRECT links. Lets try this again. HR 3919 is LIMITED to bullet point C. Are you a using cams for "public safety, security of government facilities, physical security surveillance of critical infrastructure, and other national security purposes, including telecommunications or video surveillance services provided by such entity or using such equipment"? Didnt think so. If they wanted to ban sales they would have to draft and pass a completely new bill.

a) Nothing has been banned and that your statement that it would be illegal to utilize equipment if patently false.
b) The bill requires that within a year the fcc no longer approve devices covered under section 2(a) of the Secure and Trusted Communications
Networks Act of 2019 (47 U.S.C. 1601(a)).
c) With respect to hik/dahua That section is only applicable to "to the extent it is used for the purpose of public safety, security of government facilities, physical security surveillance of critical infrastructure, and other national security purposes, including telecommunications or video surveillance services provided by such entity or using such equipment. " List of Equipment and Services Covered By Section 2 of The Secure Networks Act
 

NDAA

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Why would a camera become obsolete simply because there is no firmware update? If the camera is running fine there is no reason for an update. You think large international companies cant survive outside the US? What parts do you need? These cameras are not user serviceable anyway. I have never purchased a camera "part". The camera will become obsolete in its own when in 3 years a camera twice as good is available for the same price. You dont get any direct support from hik or dahua anywhen when purchasing from anyone other than an authorized vendor.
Not knowledgeable about camera surveilance gear but in other IT spaces not getting software/feature updates, security patches, etc. renders equipment obsolete even though the hardware still works. Large companies have abandoned products leaving consumers in the lurch so size does not matter. My goal is to get in an ecosystem that will continue to exist. What I hear you saying is cameras are different, never need patching, never get feature updates, so not to worry though I don't really want to replace cameras every 3 years I was hoping for 1 and done.

Good point about authorized vendor. Is the IPCamTalk store an authorized reseller? It seems that may be for Amcrest "Amcrest cameras are backed with Amcrest’s outstanding support" and "Dahua cameras with USA based firmware and warranties" but not clear for Hikvision or Uniview...considering Uniview for NDAA compliance.
I need to purchase from an authorized reseller as my credit card gives me additional 2 year warranty but only if purchased from authorized reseller.

Thanks! and Happy Thanksgiving.
 

fenderman

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Not knowledgeable about camera surveilance gear but in other IT spaces not getting software/feature updates, security patches, etc. renders equipment obsolete even though the hardware still works. Large companies have abandoned products leaving consumers in the lurch so size does not matter. My goal is to get in an ecosystem that will continue to exist. What I hear you saying is cameras are different, never need patching, never get feature updates, so not to worry though I don't really want to replace cameras every 3 years I was hoping for 1 and done.

Good point about authorized vendor. Is the IPCamTalk store an authorized reseller? It seems that may be for Amcrest "Amcrest cameras are backed with Amcrest’s outstanding support" and "Dahua cameras with USA based firmware and warranties" but not clear for Hikvision or Uniview...considering Uniview for NDAA compliance.
I need to purchase from an authorized reseller as my credit card gives me additional 2 year warranty but only if purchased from authorized reseller.

Thanks! and Happy Thanksgiving.
Keep missing the point. The security patches are worthless. Therefore, follow directions and you dont need patches. If the camera cannot be reached from the internet there is no need for a patch. There are no feature updates to these cameras. They come with what ever is in the original firmware. I think you need a ring camera. Please buy into their ecosystem.
 

wittaj

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As someone told you previously, you are going to hem and haw around and never purchase anything LOL.

Now you mention you want to purchase from an authorized dealer....well there is another new wrinkle for you to deal with...

These cameras either poop out immediately or will work beyond any warranty period. Authorized reseller has a couple of different classifications. Most of us have found the "authorized reseller" as it would apply to your credit card will cost you a lot more.

In the US, an official Dahua camera can cost 2 to 5 times or more than what we can purchase them for from an OEM reseller because the official US distributors want you to go through their professional installers or want you to buy in quantity, so you pay a premium markup. Neither of which most of us here want to do. Maybe some pockets of the US folks can get a good deal from an authorized Dahua dealer in the US, but most of us don't.

Purchasing from "authorized distributor" gets you a 5 year warranty. If I can get a 5 year warranty on anything, but it cost me 5 times as much to purchase that product than it does to go with an OEM that is 1/5 the cost, I will take my chances. If I get 3 years out of it, I am still better off. If I get 5 years, even better. Only after purchasing the 6th replacement in 5 years do I lose in that scenario.

Regarding life of cameras... Research - security cameras ironically are not very secure. Most of them do not issue updates and if they do, maybe one or two in the lifetime of the camera. Contrast that with an antivirus software that is constantly sending out updates. A big reason why we do not give them access. Any updates to them are to fix a year later vulnerability. They aren't going to add a feature to an existing camera - that is what a new model is for.

These cameras are not going to last forever. They are exposed to extreme weather conditions, the LED infrared is going to probably go out in 5 years and the cost to replace the IR is more expensive than buying a new camera at that time that is probably that much better.
 
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I wont be long before they release a NDAA compliant variant of “ Robo-Cop Surveillance Sentry”, powered by Amazon Alexa. Maybe wait for that release.
Hopefully they’ll have “auto track” and “auto detain” firmware. Then if the Machine accidentally tracks down somebody pushing a stroller and takes them down, they can sue Amazon.
If everybody has a couple, it wouldn’t be long before a hacker took control and hosted a neighborhood battleWWF Smackdown “ Battle of the Robo-Bots”
Or created a Battalion of them for Robo-Shoplifting at Walmart.
1637845935065.jpeg
 
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icpilot

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Not knowledgeable about camera surveilance gear but in other IT spaces not getting software/feature updates, security patches, etc. renders equipment obsolete even though the hardware still works. Large companies have abandoned products leaving consumers in the lurch so size does not matter. My goal is to get in an ecosystem that will continue to exist. What I hear you saying is cameras are different, never need patching, never get feature updates, so not to worry though I don't really want to replace cameras every 3 years I was hoping for 1 and done.

Good point about authorized vendor. Is the IPCamTalk store an authorized reseller? It seems that may be for Amcrest "Amcrest cameras are backed with Amcrest’s outstanding support" and "Dahua cameras with USA based firmware and warranties" but not clear for Hikvision or Uniview...considering Uniview for NDAA compliance.
I need to purchase from an authorized reseller as my credit card gives me additional 2 year warranty but only if purchased from authorized reseller.

Thanks! and Happy Thanksgiving.
More disingenuous BS. In your first incarnation as ipcdal, I ignored the troll indications and gave the benefit-of-the-doubt to try to address your questions, as did many others. Simple FACT is you came here claiming one thing, while clearly (now it's clear) pursuing another agenda. You don't deserve the attention and consideration being given you. You offer nothing of value to the forum and are a leech on the members here who have been willing to share knowledge and experience.

Cheers Mate!
 

user8963

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More disingenuous BS. In your first incarnation as ipcdal, I ignored the troll indications and gave the benefit-of-the-doubt to try to address your questions, as did many others. Simple FACT is you came here claiming one thing, while clearly (now it's clear) pursuing another agenda. You don't deserve the attention and consideration being given you. You offer nothing of value to the forum and are a leech on the members here who have been willing to share knowledge and experience.

Cheers Mate!
this guy is ipcdal/john/reddit fagot/kyle hater/BLM libtard :(

these people needs warranty because in case of installation damage/ lightning strike / ... they want a new one from amazon and after that they post on reddit how bad amazon is because they trash returns.

"my credit card gives me 2 years extra warranty if bought from authorized seller" LOL
 
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cctv-dave

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@icpilotI You brought up Axis to this conversation, you were condescending ("this is what john dont tell you"), I responded with facts then asked you to substantiate your allegation. Instead of substantiating your claim, you wrote multiple paragraphs complaining about the tone of my response. Can you substantiate your claim that Axis is made in China? You choose to introduce this allegation.

If you want to take a look in either product for the "secret Chinese spy chip" try looking for the yellow colored one.

BTW, COO is a very deceptive process. You can bring various components into a country and assemble them, then depending on the percentage of work done to the product you might claim COO for that country. Mexico and USA have different requirements, but that doesn't and hasn't stopped various CCTV companies from manufacturing the otherwise same product in multiple locations and charging premium price for assembly in a western location. It happens less these days but once was rife because some markets demanded it.
it's widely practiced in other industries too, especially automotive.

So unless you wish to dissect the agreement Axis has to claim COO in Mexico, you cannot categorically state they do not manufacture in china physically, only in terms of legalese are you correct.
The PCBA or certainly discrete components might very well come from a Chinese fab.
After all Axis did have some contract manufacturing in China a few years ago for China sold products, did they stop that lately ?
 

SamboNZ

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So, is there any evidence that any of these 'blacklisted' products are actively SENDING data to the Internet, or is it more of a 'remote access' type issue?
 
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