1000 yd hit with a 9mm revolver!

[NoloC]

As the Sheriff commenting on the school shooting near Spokane said "35 years ago, which is not that long, this did not happen." "The guns haven't changed, but we have". It's not as easy as passing more laws.

Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.
-H.L. Mencken

 

[bigredfish]

@Fastb I agree with you friend

However you have to look a little deeper,while one site I referenced in one post was indeed Gunfacts.info, the DATA is all referenced at the bottom of the page and it is largely Government studies and data provided by various government entities and commissioned reports. None of it is opinion of that website.

 

[wantafastz28]

I'd like to find these factual numbers that didn't include police related shootings and suicides. Can't seem to find info on that.

 

[Fastb]

The Forbes article, a news source with credibility, was cited by bigredfish. I did a quick skim (It's Friday, wifey and I will leave to do something fun soon).
1st, thanks for the link.
2nd, Forbes is a news source that has cred in my book.
3rd, to quote:

"According to DOJ’s Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. gun-related homicides dropped 39 percent over the course of 18 years, from 18,253 during 1993, to 11,101 in 2011. During the same period, non-fatal firearm crimes decreased even more, a whopping 69 percent."

"Pew researchers observed that the huge amount of attention devoted to gun violence incidents in the media has caused most Americans to be unaware that gun crime is “strikingly down” from 20 years ago. In fact, gun-related homicides in the late 2000s were “equal to those not seen since the early 1960s.”

Thanks for the link. I want the unbiased, level headed coverage.

I'll read the whole article when I have more time.

Respectfully,
Fastb

 

[Q™]

As the Sheriff commenting on the school shooting near Spokane said "35 years ago, which is not that long, this did not happen." "The guns haven't changed, but we have". It's not as easy as passing more laws.

Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.
-H.L. Mencken

This is a good observation. American consumer culture has evolved over the past 50 years to the point that, print media, TV, and the Internet all incessantly hammer away at us 24/7 that we all need the bigest, the best and most expensive stuff to be successful...that successful happy people have all this stuff...that successful people are fit and trim and attractive...then they sell us the food that makes us fat and sick. But because these are all are false idols they can inevitably can only lead to disillusionment, depression and dispair.

As a result, there are a lot of disillusioned, depressed and pissed off citizens out there who have failed to obtain these things...and some of whom are ready to explode. As we’ve seen, some of whom have exploded.

It’s hard to argue with “1. I am the Lord your God, You shall have no other gods before me,” even if it is a BMW, a McMansion or an FN/FAL.

This is only going to get worse quicker.

He who dies with the most toys doesn’t win...he dies.

 

[Q™]

I'd like to find these factual numbers that didn't include police related shootings and suicides. Can't seem to find info on that.

Quietly, Congress extends a ban on CDC research on gun violence

 

[TonyR]

Perhaps we should stick to cameras.

+1 on this!

 

[bigredfish]

@wantafastz28

Three authorities on this, they dont make it easy, you have to dig a bit.

FBI UCR
The data you're looking for is largely found in the FBI UCR (does not include suicide, does break out Justifiable Homicide by LE- about 400+ and by Private Citizens - about 300+) Lots of data to go through in the "Tables"
Crime in the U.S. 2016
11,000 Firearm related Homicides (culled down from the 30,000+ gun deaths" of which 2/3 are suicide)
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-4.xls

Bureau of Justice Statistics
Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS)
BJS Criminal Victimization report for 2015 (most recent)

CDC NVSS
NVSS - National Vital Statistics System Homepage
Start here:
NVSS - Results and Publications for Mortality Data

 

[Q™]

...print media, TV, and the Internet all incessantly hammer away at us 24/7...

Oh yeah...I left out the biggest hypocrites of all...Hollywood...

...”It’s ending, it’s over, all bets are off, it’s not 200 years ago, we don’t need the Second Amendment anymore, and the rest of the world doesn’t have it,’” Stallone told Access Hollywood in 1998. “Why should we?” “Until America, door to door, takes every handgun, this is what you’re gonna have,” added Stallone. “It’s pathetic. It really is pathetic. It’s sad. We’re living in the Dark Ages.”...

 

[NoloC]

So how about that new Dahua line up?

 

[Q™]

I knew sooner or later I’d get a like out of this stinkin’ topic.

 

[Q™]

So how about that new Dahua line up?

 

[bigredfish]

Quietly, Congress extends a ban on CDC research on gun violence

Hit piece. The mean old NRA did it.

Interesting and telling that they dont mention that 2/3 of those 34,000 gun deaths are suicides, or that 1/2 of the remaining 10,000 occur in just 6-7 cities all of which have huge gang violence and are long time "progressive" run governments. Why would the CDC need to invest so much in studying something that results in just 5000 "other" gun related homicides and not the other 2.6 Million total violent crimes annually?

 

[Fastb]

Okay (to various replies),

So the status quo in this country is okay.
Okay, maybe we don't have a massive amount of gun homicides in this country. Suicides or other.
Okay, maybe research into gun deaths isn't allowed ( due to legislation the NRA backed. Who needs data anyway?)
okay, maybe we have more guns in our country than we have people (chart below)
Okay, guns good. Color me skeptical.

Again, I'm seeking middle ground. The current situation is flawed. Sure, I own guns and will defend my family and home. But I am really frustrated by the two sides talking past each other. If we have the gumption to come to the table, and talk, we can improve the situation.

If we don't, my freedom to have guns will be infringed (I fear). We need reasonable people on both sides. In this thread, on a Camera forum, with smart and thoughtful people, I was hoping for a smart, thoughtful, and balanced dialogue.

Instead, after posting my personal views in this forum, I think I'll bow out. Which bugs me. I don't like to be shouted down by the "guns good" crowd.

YMMV,
Fastb

 

[mat200]

Approx 30,000 gun related deaths in the US annually.

Approx 20,000 are suicides

That leaves 10,000 (Actually a bit less than that but we'll use this for simplicity sake. 8124 in 2014 the last comprehensive number from BJS) out of a population of what? About 320,000,000?

Of those 10,000, if you discount just 7 counties out of 3144 in the US (Think Chicago, Baltimore, St Louis, Detroit, Newark, Oaklandl/LA, NYC) you are left with less than 5000 gun related deaths. And that doesnt break down defensive shootings from homicides...

*There is a temptation to use a "per capita" rate when comparing US States. So one rancher kills another in Montana and the per capita rate is something like 100/100,000. Not really helpful. Look at the TOTAL number of firearm related homicides.

**Car accidents (30,000), Drug overdoses(60,000), and the usual suspects like heart disease and cancer are FAR bigger problems than the approx 5000 firearm related deaths by a huge margin.

***By the way, dont confuse the total number of "Murders" or "Violent Crime" with the total number of gun related deaths. There are a lot of ways to kill or hurt someone if you really want to without a gun. Many "journalists" get these things confused as it takes reading comprehension and logic skills which they are apparently born without, and the ability to report without bias/agenda, which they choose to ignore.

oh, and a lot of the "children killed by guns"... 16-17 year old gang members...

 

[tangent]

I realize that you said 'IMO' but I am curious: just where did you get those percentages?

They were arbitrary, an expression of my frustration. Though I do think they put less in to safety than they used to. 25 years ago NRA sponsored classes weren't putting AR15's in the hands of 8 year olds. I've lost enough people to gun violence to make me more than a little angry.

You know a lot of other things changed in that time span too. Alarm systems, security cameras, car alarms, better locks, motion sensor lights, not to mention changes to the drug trade, economy, etc. Correlation doesn't imply causation.

 

[TonyR]

Interesting NPR article:
"Based on an analysis of prior research, the Johns Hopkins study estimates that more than 250,000 Americans die each year from medical errors." Article ==>> here <<==.

And on CNN:
"Through their analysis of four other studies examining death rate information, the doctors estimate there are at least 251,454 deaths due to medical errors annually in the United States. The authors believe the number is actually much higher, as home and nursing home deaths are not counted in that total." Article ==>> here <<==.

Conclusion? Don't piss off any doctor that may be packin' !!

 

[NoloC]

There is no "middle ground"

I gave my Keltec Sub2000 away rather then comply with Cuomo’s new registration requirements. But I can live with that asshole’s new law because no one really NEEDS a Sub2k. It’s a fact that all I truly need to defend myself is my 870P and my .308 BAR. And no one is going to take those weapons from me because I am a law abiding responsible American citizen. NO ONE.

Assume the 870 is a Remington 12 gauge, but WTF is a .308BAR??? Excuse my ignorance. Sounds cool.

 

[TonyR]

There is no "middle ground"


Assume the 870 is a Remington 12 gauge, but WTF is a .308BAR??? Excuse my ignorance. Sounds cool.

"BAR" stands for "Browning Automatic Rifle" and .308 is the caliber.

 

[crc2004]

great thread!