Q™
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I can't get seem to get past the "why bother" and "who gives a fuQ" part.
1000 yd hit with a 9mm revolver!
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Q™
IPCT Contributor
I don't know about that Your Fenderness...I did enjoy Puddles Pity Party's America's Got Talent audition which may qualify as an ever bigger "who gives a fuQ."
Q™
IPCT Contributor
Undoubtedly. But need I mention that some "things" are a tad more disturbing to one's sensibilities than "other things."
Q™
IPCT Contributor
...in accordance to how demented one's mind is. For example, what may have disturbed Charles Manson contrasted with what disturbs Charles J. Chaput.
CCTVCam
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TBH awareness because of the easy availability of guns seems much less in the US.
In the UK, all this hooting organisations impress the importance of backstops as do the police when they come out and interview you for a licence. In 50 years, I've never heard of an accident in the UK caused by someone failing to ensure they have a good backstop. Pellet guns are another matter when it comes to bad kids who'll shoot pretty much anything living or dead.
The simple rule is never take a shot unless you have a good backstop behind, and contrary to many you see on Youtube using woods as a backstop, they're really unsafe because: 1. You can't see who's in the wood beyond the tree line and the fact someone shouldn't be there as it's your land, is not an excuse, and, 2. a bullet is small and can easily pass all the way through a wood to the fields, roads etc beyond if the line is right. The only good backstop is the ground and only then if there's no risk of ricochet (we won't go into angle of incidence, stony ground, wet grass etc here).
As to distance traveled, even .22 LR rimfire usually comes with a 1.5 mile warning on the box. Many centrefire calibres can travel up to 6 miles with shot at the right angle from an elevated barrel, and unlike shotgun pellets which are spent on the way down, a bullet is lethal when returning to earth (hence also why rifles are unsuitable for shooting animals out of bushes, trees, rooftops or the air!).
tangent
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I'm sure there's truth to that. We have the NRA which is IMO 99.8% lobbying for bump stocks, military grade hardware, and no background checks, 0.02% gun safety. IMO those percentages have changed over time, a few decades ago the NRA might have been 10-20% gun safety and education... not today. However, for every idiot there are far more responsible gun owners or the number of deaths by guns per year would be an order of magnitude or two larger.
bigredfish
Known around here
Approx 30,000 gun related deaths in the US annually.
Approx 20,000 are suicides
That leaves 10,000 (Actually a bit less than that but we'll use this for simplicity sake. 8124 in 2014 the last comprehensive number from BJS) out of a population of what? About 320,000,000?
Of those 10,000, if you discount just 7 counties out of 3144 in the US (Think Chicago, Baltimore, St Louis, Detroit, Newark, Oaklandl/LA, NYC) you are left with less than 5000 gun related deaths. And that doesnt break down defensive shootings from homicides...
*There is a temptation to use a "per capita" rate when comparing US States. So one rancher kills another in Montana and the per capita rate is something like 100/100,000. Not really helpful. Look at the TOTAL number of firearm related homicides.
**Car accidents (30,000), Drug overdoses(60,000), and the usual suspects like heart disease and cancer are FAR bigger problems than the approx 5000 firearm related deaths by a huge margin.
***By the way, dont confuse the total number of "Murders" or "Violent Crime" with the total number of gun related deaths. There are a lot of ways to kill or hurt someone if you really want to without a gun. Many "journalists" get these things confused as it takes reading comprehension and logic skills which they are apparently born without, and the ability to report without bias/agenda, which they choose to ignore.
Approx 20,000 are suicides
That leaves 10,000 (Actually a bit less than that but we'll use this for simplicity sake. 8124 in 2014 the last comprehensive number from BJS) out of a population of what? About 320,000,000?
Of those 10,000, if you discount just 7 counties out of 3144 in the US (Think Chicago, Baltimore, St Louis, Detroit, Newark, Oaklandl/LA, NYC) you are left with less than 5000 gun related deaths. And that doesnt break down defensive shootings from homicides...
*There is a temptation to use a "per capita" rate when comparing US States. So one rancher kills another in Montana and the per capita rate is something like 100/100,000. Not really helpful. Look at the TOTAL number of firearm related homicides.
**Car accidents (30,000), Drug overdoses(60,000), and the usual suspects like heart disease and cancer are FAR bigger problems than the approx 5000 firearm related deaths by a huge margin.
***By the way, dont confuse the total number of "Murders" or "Violent Crime" with the total number of gun related deaths. There are a lot of ways to kill or hurt someone if you really want to without a gun. Many "journalists" get these things confused as it takes reading comprehension and logic skills which they are apparently born without, and the ability to report without bias/agenda, which they choose to ignore.
NoloC
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Actually the NRA has come out against bump stocks and have never been opposed to background checks. "Military grade hardware" is a meaningless term used by anti-gunners who don't know much about guns.
Q™
IPCT Contributor
Innocent civilian gun death are simply the tax man collecting his due...and the tax we pay is paid in American human lives for the healthcare and gun legislation choices our nation has made. These deaths are a demented celebration of our 2nd Amendment rights...albeit a bloody and sorrowful one. If that isn't the truth then bump stocks wouldn't be legal and terrorists wouldn't be able to buy guns.
Q™
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Well said. Meanwhile, I going down in the basement to count my ammo. I believe I’m up to 15,000 presently.
tangent
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There's a difference between what their PR mouthpiece says and how they choose to spend their lobbying dollars. Heck I even used to be a member of the NRA and I completed a quite a few of their courses and shooting qualifications when I was a kid.
You're right that isn't a particularly useful phrase, I should have been more specific. Do we really need to make it easier to buy suppressors? Do you really need that armor piercing incendiary ammo? Do you really need that anti aircraft gun? Do you really need a high capacity mag when a lower capacity mag might slow the next nut job just enough for somebody to take them out? Do you really want people on the terrorist watch list to be able to buy guns? Is there any good reason not to close the gun show and private party loopholes?
I'm not opposed to opposed to guns within reason. I am tired of going to funerals.
Q™
IPCT Contributor
Apparently, America isn't tired enough. We don't need all that stuff brother. In my opinion, what we need is reasonable, enforced, gun control legislation and the availability of better mental healthcare. Until then it's gonna be Massacre > Thoughts & Prayers > Left & Right Political Bullshit > Repeat Ad Infinitum.
fenderman
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Yes, and your solutions will do absolutely nothing to stop the funerals...
bigredfish
Known around here
1-Do we really need to make it easier to buy suppressors?
It aint all that easy as it stands, and making guns quieter wont change the equation. It will however help save a few folks from hearing loss in one ear..ask me how I know
2-Do you really need that armor piercing incendiary ammo?
Too much TV. No such thing sold to civilians, contrary to what you may have seen on CNN
3-Do you really need that anti aircraft gun?
I found ammo too expensive for mine so i sold it. (See #2 above)
4-Do you really need a high capacity mag when a lower capacity mag might slow the next nut job just enough for somebody to take them out?
Define "high capacity". Many Police and self defense shootings involve 8,10, 12, 15 rounds fired. They quit when they go to slidelock. Bad guys dont get blown 10ft backwards with a single shot like in the movies. Handguns are actually lousy man stoppers. Trust me you wont be counting.
I train average soccer moms to swap mags in about 2 seconds. (See#2 above)
5-Do you really want people on the terrorist watch list to be able to buy guns?
No. But dont confuse the failure of enforcement by our totally inept and corrupt Federal Government with laws that are already on the books.
BONUS- BadGuys dont pay attention to laws.
6-Is there any good reason not to close the gun show and private party loopholes?
There is no Gun Show Loophole. You cannot buy a gun without a background check from a vendor at a gun show any differently than in a gun store. (See#2 above)
As to the Private Party 'loophole", do you REALLY think Bad Guys who knowing break the law and shoot people are going to adhere to this technicality and pay their $35 administrative paperwork fee? really? Or will the only people that obey that law be otherwise innocent law abiding citizens who now effectively pay yet another tax? It's already illegal to sell a firearm to a known felon or anyone who may not be legally allowed to own a gun. One can't make an argument that a new law will stop Bad Guys from doing what Bad Guys do. They dont obey the existing laws, why does one think they'll obey new ones?
It aint all that easy as it stands, and making guns quieter wont change the equation. It will however help save a few folks from hearing loss in one ear..ask me how I know
2-Do you really need that armor piercing incendiary ammo?
Too much TV. No such thing sold to civilians, contrary to what you may have seen on CNN
3-Do you really need that anti aircraft gun?
I found ammo too expensive for mine so i sold it. (See #2 above)
4-Do you really need a high capacity mag when a lower capacity mag might slow the next nut job just enough for somebody to take them out?
Define "high capacity". Many Police and self defense shootings involve 8,10, 12, 15 rounds fired. They quit when they go to slidelock. Bad guys dont get blown 10ft backwards with a single shot like in the movies. Handguns are actually lousy man stoppers. Trust me you wont be counting.
I train average soccer moms to swap mags in about 2 seconds. (See#2 above)
5-Do you really want people on the terrorist watch list to be able to buy guns?
No. But dont confuse the failure of enforcement by our totally inept and corrupt Federal Government with laws that are already on the books.
BONUS- BadGuys dont pay attention to laws.
6-Is there any good reason not to close the gun show and private party loopholes?
There is no Gun Show Loophole. You cannot buy a gun without a background check from a vendor at a gun show any differently than in a gun store. (See#2 above)
As to the Private Party 'loophole", do you REALLY think Bad Guys who knowing break the law and shoot people are going to adhere to this technicality and pay their $35 administrative paperwork fee? really? Or will the only people that obey that law be otherwise innocent law abiding citizens who now effectively pay yet another tax? It's already illegal to sell a firearm to a known felon or anyone who may not be legally allowed to own a gun. One can't make an argument that a new law will stop Bad Guys from doing what Bad Guys do. They dont obey the existing laws, why does one think they'll obey new ones?
tangent
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That might even help reduce flow of guns purchased legally in the US (largely in Texas) that are illegally transported to Mexico.
Do you have any ideas that might actually reduce gun related deaths? More guns for everyone (certainly what the gun mfgs want)? Mandatory gun safety classes? Improving mental health care?
Thankfully the average nut job doesn't have much if any training, there are exceptions. How many more soccer mom's need to get killed accidentally by their 3 yo before we do something?
I realize that the vast majority of gun owners here are responsible, but I've earned more than a bit of cynicism and rage on the subject of guns in America.