4k Camera Recommendations

[dis3as3d]

Hi Everyone,

Apologies, I know this is a pretty common topic. I've tried searching and reading the wiki, but can't seem to find information that leads me in the right direction.

I've been slowly making progress on my build. Server is built out with Unraid and has a Windows VM on standby to host Blue Iris. Ethernet cabling has been run though my crawlspace to my garage where I'll put the POE switch. POE switch is ordered, just waiting for it to arrive.

I'm a bit stuck researching cameras. It seems like there's a dizzying array of different manufacturers, and their websites are pretty terrible. Generally speaking I try to future-proof purchases. I'd rather buy once, cry once. Opposed to upgrading cameras more often as technology changes. That being said I've been mostly focused on 4k cameras. I understand that's an ongoing debate on if they're worth it, but better image quality is my ultimate goal.

I've got 3 major scenarios for camera needs based on where they'll be used:

Front Door Camera:
Not In Scope:
Doorbell integration(My doorbell is perpendicular to my front door, and I don't like the angled mounts)
4k Image quality(Maybe, with the limited viewing area and lighting I could see not needing 4k here)
Requirements:
Good Night Vision(My front door is almost like a cave and gets little little light)
2 way Audio. A bit of a pipe dream since I've heard this functionality is hit and miss. I'm hoping stability and quality improves over time.

Flood Light Camera:
Requirements:
4k Image Quality
Wide angle and long distance image quality(E.g. 50ish feet from my house to my mailbox, and 125 ft to the far corner of my front yard.
Audio recording

Bullet style Outdoor:
Not In Scope:
Dome dome style cameras. From what I've seen they have a lot of issues with glare and weather.
Requirements:
4k Image Quality
Some kind of visor to help with glare and the elements
Audio Recording

 

[SouthernYankee]

There currently are no 4K cameras that have good night vision, that are in the affordable range.
If you are interested in a stable BI system with performance DO NOT use a VM. Most VMs do not support intel hardware acceleration.

----------------------------------------------------

My standard welcome to the forum message.

Please read the IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes and other items in the IP Cam Talk Wiki. The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.

Quick start
1) If you do not have a wired monitored alarm system, get that first
2) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras if you need good low light cameras.
3) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
4) Do not use wifi cameras.
5) Do not use cloud storage
6) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
7) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
8) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
9) Do not use reolink, ring, nest, Arlo cameras (they are junk), no cloud cameras
10) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
11) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
12) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
13) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 8ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
14) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
15) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator V3
16) POE list PoE Switch Suggestion List


Cameras to look at
IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+)
IPC-T5442TM-AS Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ - 4MP starlight+
IPC-HDW2231R-ZS Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal
IPC-HDW2231T-ZS-S2 Review-OEM IPC-T2231T-ZS 2mp Varifocal Starlight Camera
IPC-HDW5231R-ZE Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
IPC-HFW4239T-ASE IPC-HFW4239T-ASE
IPCT-HDW5431RE-I Review - IP Cam Talk 4 MP IR Fixed Turret Network Camera
DS-2CD2325FWD-I
IPC-T2347G-LU Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera. (DS-2CD2347G1-LU)
N22AL12 New Dahua N22AL12 Budget Cam w/Starlight -- low cost entry

Other dahua 4MP starlight Dahua 4MP Starlight Lineup

My preferred indoor cameras
DS-2CD2442FWD-IW
IPC-K35A Review-Dahua IPC-K35A 3mp Cube Camera

If interested in Blue Iris and other setup items see the following post

Newbie Starter Guide to IP Cam System – VPN setup – Computer Hardware – Blue Iris – Dahua Cameras

This is an intermediate / newbie guide for people just starting out looking for a surveillance setup. I know this setup might not be for everyone and there are many options. You can find a lot of this information in the Wiki: IP Cam Talk Wiki | IP Cam Talk A great place to start in the Wiki...

ipcamtalk.com

Before asking a question search the forum first...
The best way to search the forum is to use Google Advance search

Google Advanced Search

set site or domain to ipcamtalk.com

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Test do not guess

 

[mat200]

Hi Everyone,

Apologies, I know this is a pretty common topic. I've tried searching and reading the wiki, but can't seem to find information that leads me in the right direction.

I've been slowly making progress on my build. Server is built out with Unraid and has a Windows VM on standby to host Blue Iris. Ethernet cabling has been run though my crawlspace to my garage where I'll put the POE switch. POE switch is ordered, just waiting for it to arrive.

I'm a bit stuck researching cameras. It seems like there's a dizzying array of different manufacturers, and their websites are pretty terrible. Generally speaking I try to future-proof purchases. I'd rather buy once, cry once. Opposed to upgrading cameras more often as technology changes. That being said I've been mostly focused on 4k cameras. I understand that's an ongoing debate on if they're worth it, but better image quality is my ultimate goal.

I've got 3 major scenarios for camera needs based on where they'll be used:

Front Door Camera:
Not In Scope:
Doorbell integration(My doorbell is perpendicular to my front door, and I don't like the angled mounts)
4k Image quality(Maybe, with the limited viewing area and lighting I could see not needing 4k here)
Requirements:
Good Night Vision(My front door is almost like a cave and gets little little light)
2 way Audio. A bit of a pipe dream since I've heard this functionality is hit and miss. I'm hoping stability and quality improves over time.

Flood Light Camera:
Requirements:
4k Image Quality
Wide angle and long distance image quality(E.g. 50ish feet from my house to my mailbox, and 125 ft to the far corner of my front yard.
Audio recording

Bullet style Outdoor:
Not In Scope:
Dome dome style cameras. From what I've seen they have a lot of issues with glare and weather.
Requirements:
4k Image Quality
Some kind of visor to help with glare and the elements
Audio Recording

Welcome @dis3as3d

You appear to have conflicting requirements:
4k Image Quality
Wide angle and long distance image quality(E.g. 50ish feet from my house to my mailbox, and 125 ft to the far corner of my front yard.

Recommend reviewing the DORI section of the cliff notes.

Wider FOV = shorter image quality.

A 8MP camera at 90 degrees H FOV will give you an id distance of about 25 feet...if you want it out to 50 feet, you need to reduce the H FOV by 2 ( i.e. 45 degrees.. )

 

[dis3as3d]

@mat200 Understood. It's my position to ask for the world and bring myself back from there based on reality. The DORI section really highlights why I'm going after 4k(or as close as realistically possible). More pixels = more better right? Reading though the WIKI it seems like 4k information is very dated in that document. Linked post to 4k content are at least 2 years old, and that's why I tried posting here for recommendations based on my ideal goals.

If you have any feedback or recommendations I'm open to them.

 

[mat200]

@mat200 Understood. It's my position to ask for the world and bring myself back from there based on reality. The DORI section really highlights why I'm going after 4k(or as close as realistically possible). More pixels = more better right? Reading though the WIKI it seems like 4k information is very dated in that document. Linked post to 4k content are at least 2 years old, and that's why I tried posting here for recommendations based on my ideal goals.

If you have any feedback or recommendations I'm open to them.

HI @dis3as3d

"More pixels = more better right?" - if the pixel size is the same and the lens is larger, and the dsp chip / processing chips more powerful, and there is more ram for compute and encoding...

As you can guess, more pixels = should mean significantly more price.

That often not the case - because shortcuts are taken to keep the price down... so you need to look closer at why a 8MP camera is not 4x more than a 2MP camera...

hint: see the reviews by members. vendors use chips with smaller pixels to squeeze more resolution on the chip and this sacrifices low light performance.

 

[dis3as3d]

I guess I'm left with more questions than answers.

 

[dis3as3d]

paging @EMPIRETECANDY as well since your name came up on reddit

 

[djernie]

Just remember there is no ideal situation, every one has to get cameras and adjust them to their environment. We can give you all the options but we can't say this one camera will be the ideal camera for your situation. That being said, i am in the process of rebuilding my system as well and i have learned a lot from the guys on this forum. The best thing to do is go the forums on here were guys have tested different cameras and that will give you a great starting point. They have tested all cameras in all different locations on the houses. @looney2ns, @bigredfish, @Wildcat_1, just to name a few. these guys have tested many cameras, and are very helpful, go to the forums they have up and you will get great information and great video of different cameras in action. Take your time and you will not be disappointed. I searched and read everything on this board for 4 or 5 months and yes it is all very intimidating and overwhelming. But i finally bought my first cam and i am still on this site learning. Good luck.

 

[looney2ns]

4k isn't ready for prime time, unless you are going to use them in a location that always has lots of light. It will also require a LOT of storage.
Look over what @SouthernYankee listed, these are the tried and true, don't reinvent the wheel.

 

[aristobrat]

Generally speaking I try to future-proof purchases. I'd rather buy once, cry once. Opposed to upgrading cameras more often as technology changes.

IMO, affordable low-light camera technology <in the professional-grade surveillance market> hasn't changed very quickly so far, so you may be in luck there just by default.

 

[dis3as3d]

In case anyone is following this, I'm thinking about just going with 'IPC-T2347G-LU Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera. (DS-2CD2347G1-LU)'

Haven't found any solid reviews of 2 way audio cameras. Either the camera is crap, or the two way audio is crap. Also integration of flood lights and camera is a bust as well.

Question: where can I find the list of supported cameras on Blue Iris? Looks like it should support it based on ONVIF support, but can't find any kind of positive confirmation.

One more question, and not sure I'll get an answer here. I'd like to mound them on a wall opposed to in a hanging position. Not really a fan of the wall mounts though. Does the stock housing have the rotation to support this?

 

[aristobrat]

The turrets can be mounted to just about anything flat, regardless of angle. The camera is a round ball that can be pointed pretty much any direction within the mount.

I have the Dahua version of that camera that Andy sells as the IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED. Both the Hik and Dahua models use the same new great 4MP 1/1.8” image sensor that’s becoming the new favorite around here (replacing the 2MP 1/2.8” sensor that’s reigned supreme for best affordable low-light sensor since 2016, which is why I was saying that low-light tech hasn’t changed quickly so far).

Having said all that, I think if you’re going to use this camera in a dark area, unless you don’t mind a bright visible LED light illuminating from the front of the camera all night, you might like the version of these cameras that use IR lights instead. The Dahua OEM from Andy is the IPC-T5442TM-AS, not sure of the Hik model. The IR light isn’t visible so the camera doesn’t look like a spotlight to human eyes.

Forum Review:

Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+

Dahua OEM IPC-T5442TM-AS from EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk store: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price Approximately US $160 Link to camera...

ipcamtalk.com

I don’t know about a supported list of cameras from Blue Iris, but I don’t recall seeing where anyones had a problem using the popular Dahua/Hik models. In BI you type in the camera’s IP address, user name, password then hit the Find/Inspect button. BI will use ONVIF to connect to the camera which then returns all of the info BI needs to set it up. The only confusion is that BI will usually set the make/model to something generic, which is normal. Some folks are expecting BI to show the exact camera manufacturer/model, which isn’t normal. Even though the make/model shows generic, the specifics about the camera are setup correctly in BI.

AFAIK, BI doesn’t do full-duplex audio. For me, two-way audio using BI is cumbersome so I work around that by using the free Dahua smartphone app when I need to use two-way. There’s no problem with having BI pull a 24x7 stream from the camera and also using another camera stream for something like the Dahua smartphone app at the same time.