Best value outdoor IP low light camera?

Respect

n3wb
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I am trying to secure the perimeter of my business. I'm looking for a Hikvision or Dahua good value low light bullet camera that also has good detail (3mp minimum) during the day. I do have some ambient light from wallpacks on the side of the building, it's not the greatest but it's there. I know there's been many models reviewed and tested, I want to know what the community recommends, and hopefully there is some consensus on a specific model that is great all around. I want to buy at least 5 units. I've always owned Hikvision and do prefer that, but im open to Dahua too.
 

SouthernYankee

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:welcome:
My standard welcome to the forum message.

Please read the IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes and other items in the IP Cam Talk Wiki. The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.

Quick start
1) If you do not have a wired monitored alarm system, get that first
2) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras or ICPT Night eye cameras (Store | IP Cam Talk) if you need good low light cameras.
3) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
4) Do not use wifi cameras.
5) Do not use cloud storage
6) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
7) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
8) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
9) Do not use reolink, ring, nest cameras (they are junk), no cloud cameras
10) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
11) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
12) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
13) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 8ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
14) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
15) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator V3

Cameras to look at
IPC-HDW2231R-ZS Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal
IPC-HDW2231T-ZS-S2 Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231T-ZS-S2 2mp Varifocal Starlight Camera
IPC-HDW5231R-ZE Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
IPC-HFW4239T-ASE IPC-HFW4239T-ASE
IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+)
IPC-T5442TM-AS Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ - 4MP starlight+
IPCT-HDW5431RE-I Review - IP Cam Talk 4 MP IR Fixed Turret Network Camera
DS-2CD2325FWD-I
IPC-T2347G-LU Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera. (DS-2CD2347G1-LU)
N22AL12 New Dahua N22AL12 Budget Cam w/Starlight -- low cost entry

Other dahua 4MP starlight
My preferred indoor cameras
DS-2CD2442FWD-IW
IPC-K35A Review-Dahua IPC-K35A 3mp Cube Camera

If interested in Blue Iris and other setup items see the following post

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Test do not guess

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if you are interested in Dahua cameras, a forum member sells dahua and ships world wide. You can read some of the members recommendations on his service. He also provides cameras to other forum member for evaluation and reviews.
you can email him for a quote, or purchase from his Aliexpress store or his Amazon store.

Andy
@EMPIRETECANDY
kingsecurity2014@163.com
Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: EmpireTech Andy

Andy's AliExpress store: Empire Technology Co., Ltd - Amazing prodcuts with exclusive discounts on AliExpress

Andy's Amazon store: EmpireTech-Andy @ Amazon.com:

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aristobrat

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x2 on the Dahua/Hik models that use the 4MP 1/1.8” sensor. I’m partial to Dahua because of the awesome base of support here on the forum (ton of owners here that do reviews and help out) as well as a very awesome reseller (Andy, @EMPIRETECANDY) that makes buying them easy.

The Dahua 5442 Starlight+ models (4MP 1/1.8”) seem to be bumping the 4231/5231 Starlight (2MP 1/2.8”) models out of the #1 spot as best value low-light models.

Dahua has some other newer 5MP Starlight (not Starlight+) models that might be a little cheaper but I haven’t seen them reviewed yet.
 

mtx00

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mat200

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Could anyone help translate the raw numbers of 1/2.8 vs 1/1.8 to real-world differences between these two for low light lux sensitivity as it pertains to clear facial ID at distances up to 50ft?
(I do see Empire has the 5231 in Black, but did not see a black option for 5442TM-AS)



Thanks!
Hi @mtx00

Check out the various reviews members have been doing on various 8MP cameras with the 1/2.5" sensor and those with the 1/1.8" sensors.

check out the cliff notes on ID distance calculations, note in low light conditions it will be more challenging.

look for the ipvm calculator.
 

mtx00

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8MP? It appears these are 2MP and 4MP, respectively and a bit of a compounding affect with the different sensor sizes.
 

mat200

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8MP? It appears these are 2MP and 4MP, respectively and a bit of a compounding affect with the different sensor sizes.
Yes - I was crossing some information on another thread on 8MP and 1/2.5" vs 1/1.8" sensors.

Still the same answer applies with the 2MP on a 1/2.8" sensor and the 4MP on a 1/1.8" sensor. See the reviews by members, see the cliff notes on ID distance calculations, and see the ipvm calculator.
 

aristobrat

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Could anyone help translate the raw numbers of 1/2.8 vs 1/1.8 to real-world differences between these two for low light lux sensitivity as it pertains to clear facial ID at distances up to 50ft?
(I do see Empire has the 5231 in Black, but did not see a black option for 5442TM-AS)


Lux sensitivity to the side, I'm not sure you'll be able to get a clear facial ID at 50 feet from either of the 5231 or 5442 turrets.

To get a rough idea of how far out these cameras can ID, check out the "DORI Distance" spec on those PDFs. DORI = detect, observe, recognize, identify. You're looking for the "identify" values.

5231 zoomed out (2.7mm) = 13ft
5231 zoomed in (13.5mm) = 46ft

5442 2.8mm lens = 20ft
5442 3.6mm lens = 23ft
5442 6mm lens = 36ft

The 5231's "zoomed in" DORI ID distance (46ft) is close to your 50ft requirement, but Dahua's DORI distances are thought to be optimistic. Their 'identify' distance seem to be based on 60 PPF (pixels per foot), whereas most folks here try to get a PPF of 100+ when trying to clearly ID someone they don't recognize. This is why I don't think you'll be happy using either of these cameras to ID at 50 ft.

Here are some screen shots from the IPVM Camera Calculator V3 that @mat200 mentioned that should give you an idea of what each of the cameras/focal lengths look like from 50ft. Check out the estimated image quality on the right. The PPF value should be listed between those two pictures. I think you'll see why folks aim for a PPF value of 100+ for ID'ing folks.

5231 13.5mm (zoomed in all the way)
5231 13.5.png

5231 2.7mm (zoomed out all the way)
5231 2.7.png

5442 6mm
5442 6.png

5442 3.6mm
5442 6.png

5442 2.8mm
5442 2.8.png

Both the 5231 and 5442 have bullet models with higher zoom (Z4/Z12) options that can make ID'ing clearly at 50ft away a lot easier. The 5231 model has a stronger IR which helps at distances too, .. I'm not sure about the 5442. In general, the 5442's .002 lux rating outperforms the 5231's .006 lux rating. Like @mat200 mentioned, there are some good review threads for both models that have videos that can be used to get an idea of how they perform.

As for the black cameras, I think Andy only did a special order of 5231 and maybe one or two other models in black. There are some threads around where other folks have had good lucking painting their cameras custom colors, so that might be an option.
 

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