BlueIris decides to delete all of my videos (5.8.0.7, PSA)?

wittaj

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Some things...

a) What good are the critical updates if they incorporate this bug? Did they not have the bug?

b) The files are gone.

c) I don't know why some people are offended by my post. I'm perfectly aware this is not blue iris support.

d) I just signed up, why does that matter? I searched for 'blue iris deleted all video' and wound up here. Thought I'd share my experience.

e) Still, this is unacceptable.
Who said they were offended? You are a new member and didn't point out that you are aware that this site isn't affiliated with BI, so if you don't like that comment, then do a better job in your first post explaining that LOL.

You would be surprised at the level of incompetence that comes here, so sometimes we have to point out the blatant obvious.

We had someone come here once and said they couldn't get BI to see the camera and kept coming up no signal and we did all this troubleshooting to only find out the NOOB simply plugged the camera into the router and since routers don't provide power, it was why BI couldn't see it.

So now we ask the blatant obvious "How is it connected for power" first when someone comes here saying BI can't see their camera. Some may get offended by that first question and come off rude that they are an IT manager or some nonsense, at which point folks go radio silent on them LOL.

We all agree that it sucks some have lost their recordings. Find a comparable system for the price - you won't find it. Every program has issues.

It is why many here don't update windows (no real reason to if you aren't using it for anything else), isolate the system from the Internet, and only update BI when they add something you want or need.
 

wittaj

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I do install critical updates on windows. I don't run code project (not even sure what that is) this machine does nothing but run blue iris- nothing. I want records to be rock solid. It needs to be dependable. It hasn't been and I've been burned and its taking a long time to heal.
Many here have turned off windows updates - they like to sneak driver updates and other things in that cause the system to get unstable.

Since you are using it as a stand-alone device, the device isn't out on the Internet so the value of the critical updates are not as critical.

We can assure you that the device is still more secure than an NVR that rarely gets updates for known backdoor vulnerabilities.

I bet if you go in the Windows log you will find an update that corresponds to your video loss and memory leak.
 

fenderman

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Some things...

a) What good are the critical updates if they incorporate this bug? Did they not have the bug?

b) The files are gone.

c) I don't know why some people are offended by my post. I'm perfectly aware this is not blue iris support.

d) I just signed up, why does that matter? I searched for 'blue iris deleted all video' and wound up here. Thought I'd share my experience.

e) Still, this is unacceptable.
The offense is taken by your surprise that a beta release caused you to lose video. I just dont understand why you cant leave updates to a 100% stable version when and if you need it. The blue iris developer pumps out updates fast, we love that. This gives users who want to assume the risk to try new features without waiting 6 months or a year. With all your alleged expertise, why would you install a beta release? Also remember that blue iris is a home/small business vms for 60 dollars. If your data is critical you should be using an enterprise vms with failover and other data protection mechanisms.

Its unacceptable to install a beta then complain. This bug was not in the stable update versions. If it is unacceptable to you why don't you switch to another VMS. Let us know what the is. All other VMS have zero issues, which is why they have no support forums and you cant even google and find ANY issues. They dont even offer support options because it is not needed.
 
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You guys, I just lost 4 months of video. This is a commercial establishment. Boy does this suck, if my employees find out, some of them are going to be very happy. I have over 145 TB and wasn't even close to filling up my drives. I was on 5.8.7.3 and updated to 5.7.9.12 as it seems this is working out for toastertoaster.

There is something fundamentally wrong with the program code when you accidentally wipe out all of the recordings. And for the bug to have survived many later revisions? There is no excuse. I'm a programmer and I don't see how you can NOT avoid this kind of mistake. It's very easy to get the file count and total size and then test for wholesale deletions vs typical FIFO deletions. Truly, tell me how the storage recycling is supposed work and I will write you example showing how easy it is to avoid. This is unacceptable.
Blue Iris is great because of how granular and customizable it is. It's great for someone like me who uses it in their home and like to mess around with it. In my opinion, specifically because of the current state of the database, BI does not belong in a commercial environment where the surveillance system is critical. If the system is that important to you, you need to invest in a enterprise grade VMS solution like Digital Watchdog IPVMS. Digital Watchdog is a lot more expensive than Blue Iris but its very stable and doesn't have any of the database issues like Blue Iris does.

FYI I have not experienced these issues with my recordings getting deleted or memory leak, but I also stay on the stable release unless I'm trying to test something.
 

1959hw

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Yup, I installed a beta version. Says so right on the update window: 'Install Latest Beta Version'.
 

fenderman

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Yup, I installed a beta version. Says so right on the update window: 'Install Latest Beta Version'.
Exactly. As I previously explained, BI requires and IQ of at least 80. Lets do this slowly. If one options says it is the stable version and the other is the latest, then we can deduce that the latest version is not stable aka beta. But this is unacceptable for you and your important corporation so open that rusty wallet and buy an enterprise solution - which also wont guarantee a problem free experience.
 

1959hw

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Yup, I installed the unstable version. Says so right on the update window: 'Install Latest Unstable Version'.
 

fenderman

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Yup, I installed the unstable version. Says so right on the update window: 'Install Latest Unstable Version'.
Exactly. As I previously explained, BI requires and IQ of at least 80. Lets do this slowly. If one options says it is the stable version and the other is the latest, then we can deduce that the latest version is not stable aka beta. But this is unacceptable for you and your important corporation so open that rusty wallet and buy an enterprise solution - which also wont guarantee a problem free experience. Cry me a river.
 
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So the actual .bvr files are gone, right? But is it not just the Windows file pointers that were deleted? Aren't there all sorts of rebuild software out there that will rebuild the file pointers in Windows?

Isn't it called something like recovery software?
 

looney2ns

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You guys, I just lost 4 months of video. This is a commercial establishment. Boy does this suck, if my employees find out, some of them are going to be very happy. I have over 145 TB and wasn't even close to filling up my drives. I was on 5.8.7.3 and updated to 5.7.9.12 as it seems this is working out for toastertoaster.

There is something fundamentally wrong with the program code when you accidentally wipe out all of the recordings. And for the bug to have survived many later revisions? There is no excuse. I'm a programmer and I don't see how you can NOT avoid this kind of mistake. It's very easy to get the file count and total size and then test for wholesale deletions vs typical FIFO deletions. Truly, tell me how the storage recycling is supposed work and I will write you example showing how easy it is to avoid. This is unacceptable.
As a programmer, you should know the importance of a solid backup strategy for anything important.
 
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I understand both sides of this argument and how someone would not realize that "install latest update available" could cause issues. Especially if that person is not active on this forum or actively reading up on BI. Ken should really include a notation indicating that the "latest update available" may cause stability issues or just label it as a beta update. That would solve the issue of uninformed individuals updating to a buggy update. Most of the time anyway lol.

I still stand by my previous opinion tho, BI does not belong in a commercial environment where the surveillance footage is critical.
 

fenderman

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Yup, I installed the unstable version. Says so right on the update window: 'Install Latest Unstable Version'.
Exactly. As I previously explained, BI requires and IQ of at least 80. Lets do this slowly. If one options says it is the stable version and the other is the latest, then we can deduce that the latest version is not stable aka beta. But this is unacceptable for you and your important corporation so open that rusty wallet and buy an enterprise solution - which also wont guarantee a problem free experience.
I understand both sides of this argument and how someone would not realize that "install latest update available" could cause issues. Especially if that person is not active on this forum or actively reading up on BI. Ken should really include a notation indicating that the "latest update available" may cause stability issues or just label it as a beta update. That would solve the issue of uninformed individuals updating to a buggy update. Most of the time anyway lol.

I still stand by my previous opinion tho, BI does not belong in a commercial environment where the surveillance footage is critical.
Its self evident from the fact the one is labeled stable. Of course BI should not be used in a scenario where footage is critical as it doesnt have proper failover mechanisms, a regular NVR has the same problem. If you use common sense you wont have any issues. I have been running 20 bi systems for over 10 years...never lost a single recording but if the system died there would be no failover other than SD card.
 

looney2ns

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Those that consider themselves a "programmer" should know that a proper vetted backup system is crucial if you have critical files.....of any kind.
 

BIUser777

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Wow … This just happened to me. After years of using Blue Iris satisfactorily without updating or upgrading I renewed my license last fall, and shortly thereafter I thought what the heck, I might as well get the latest update and play with what’s new. All good, but bang, a few months later I wake up with ½ a terabyte of BVRs gone. Wiped out. Just gone. Yup, BVRs. I have no clue why it happened now. Repair db didn’t do anything. Perhaps my disk approached a critical state. Earlier guesses in this thread about database misbehaving seem like good guesses.

This is just incredible. Yeah, this was not the latest “highly stable” update, and I was ready for a few glitches here and there. But releasing such an update, be it beta, alpha, release candidate or you name it, that massively wipes out all clips is not a little or even “medium, those do happen once in a while” glitch. It is a sign of a massive software development failure. These things just never happen outside the small circle of software developers working on the product. Just imagine IOS, Android, MSFT, meta, etc … or even “smaller” software, wiping out all your messages on a beta update.
Releasing updates often is done all the time in the software engineering world, nothing wrong with that. Typically tools like continuous integration software, unit testing, etc … are used to make sure that while small bugs are impossible to eliminate and may still show up, massive failures are caught in time. It was not the case here, which leads one to believe that the developer(s) may not using such tools, which is, well, scary. Either that or it’s one of those “once in a lifetime” major hickup. Ouch.

I still plan on using BI, it’s worked well for me in the past, it doesn’t cost much and I don’t have the time nor want to spend the money for higher quality software needed for mission critical envirnoments. I use it for home, for security but also and mostly to checkout wildlife activity, and I have a modest set-up (only ½ a dozen cameras), and have backups anyways (although I did lose a day of clips). Oh well. And frankly, I still like it. It’s versatile, powerful, highly customizable, and fits my requirements, even after this. But lesson learned, just not “mission critical” grade. As long as one keeps that in mind one should be ok.
Perhaps the lessons learned here are these, imho:
  • It’s ok for home use, but stay away if you running a mission critical environment. Imagine law enforcement using this. Not. Whether you update often or not.

  • Do not trust the software from a security standpoint. I don’t want to even think of the potential security holes in it, starting with simple buffer overflows, etc … when this kind of failure happened, even it will never happen again. Not to mention that most IP cameras are running notoriously crappy and insecure firmware cloned from god knows how many asian bases, to start with. Dahua et al... If security is important to you at least minimize threats: Stay away from wifi, do not poke holes in your Internet router, use software like zerotier/vpn’s and the like if you need to access servers remotely.

  • Back up, obviously. Yes it sucks to have to worry about this on typically dedicated machines with monster disk writes, and you may still loose a few clips given how difficult it is to continuously back up in real time. If you cannot afford to loose even one single clip, try syncing your bvrs, (syncthing or equivalent) but yeah, pita and it’s going to additionaly tax your server. This even if you restrict yourself to only updating with highly stable updates.

  • Finally, but I am sure most have figured this out, lol, take advice from some people in this forum with some serious grains of salt, lol. Someone that will tell you that an iq above 80 is required and have no issue going full ad hominem on some, and tell you that this was expected given you loaded a non highly stable update, clearly have zero clue about modern software engineering. Acting like you somehow insulted their baby, both defensively and agressively, when they have nothing to do with BI’s development is a clear sign of, err, never mind ... Tells you all you need to know about them, to paraphrase earlier comment. Oh well, there’s one or more in every crowd, unfortunately. Just do some additional checking homework when following advice of such non experts.
My 2c, already way too long. Hope this helps some.
PS: Yup, I just signed up, although I’ve checked this forum sporadically for years. Just never felt the need to do so earlier as I never had any serious issues with BI.
 

bp2008

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@BIUser777 You are absolutely right, that kind of failure is not something anyone should consider acceptable or blame on the user. I expect if you had logging enabled you could find an event saying BI thought your disk suddenly got a lot fuller (even beyond the true capacity of your disk). There should be a periodic little blurb every 10 mins or so indicating file sizes and deletion counts in the log.
 

fenderman

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Wow … This just happened to me. After years of using Blue Iris satisfactorily without updating or upgrading I renewed my license last fall, and shortly thereafter I thought what the heck, I might as well get the latest update and play with what’s new. All good, but bang, a few months later I wake up with ½ a terabyte of BVRs gone. Wiped out. Just gone. Yup, BVRs. I have no clue why it happened now. Repair db didn’t do anything. Perhaps my disk approached a critical state. Earlier guesses in this thread about database misbehaving seem like good guesses.

This is just incredible. Yeah, this was not the latest “highly stable” update, and I was ready for a few glitches here and there. But releasing such an update, be it beta, alpha, release candidate or you name it, that massively wipes out all clips is not a little or even “medium, those do happen once in a while” glitch. It is a sign of a massive software development failure. These things just never happen outside the small circle of software developers working on the product. Just imagine IOS, Android, MSFT, meta, etc … or even “smaller” software, wiping out all your messages on a beta update.
Releasing updates often is done all the time in the software engineering world, nothing wrong with that. Typically tools like continuous integration software, unit testing, etc … are used to make sure that while small bugs are impossible to eliminate and may still show up, massive failures are caught in time. It was not the case here, which leads one to believe that the developer(s) may not using such tools, which is, well, scary. Either that or it’s one of those “once in a lifetime” major hickup. Ouch.

I still plan on using BI, it’s worked well for me in the past, it doesn’t cost much and I don’t have the time nor want to spend the money for higher quality software needed for mission critical envirnoments. I use it for home, for security but also and mostly to checkout wildlife activity, and I have a modest set-up (only ½ a dozen cameras), and have backups anyways (although I did lose a day of clips). Oh well. And frankly, I still like it. It’s versatile, powerful, highly customizable, and fits my requirements, even after this. But lesson learned, just not “mission critical” grade. As long as one keeps that in mind one should be ok.
Perhaps the lessons learned here are these, imho:
  • It’s ok for home use, but stay away if you running a mission critical environment. Imagine law enforcement using this. Not. Whether you update often or not.

  • Do not trust the software from a security standpoint. I don’t want to even think of the potential security holes in it, starting with simple buffer overflows, etc … when this kind of failure happened, even it will never happen again. Not to mention that most IP cameras are running notoriously crappy and insecure firmware cloned from god knows how many asian bases, to start with. Dahua et al... If security is important to you at least minimize threats: Stay away from wifi, do not poke holes in your Internet router, use software like zerotier/vpn’s and the like if you need to access servers remotely.

  • Back up, obviously. Yes it sucks to have to worry about this on typically dedicated machines with monster disk writes, and you may still loose a few clips given how difficult it is to continuously back up in real time. If you cannot afford to loose even one single clip, try syncing your bvrs, (syncthing or equivalent) but yeah, pita and it’s going to additionaly tax your server. This even if you restrict yourself to only updating with highly stable updates.

  • Finally, but I am sure most have figured this out, lol, take advice from some people in this forum with some serious grains of salt, lol. Someone that will tell you that an iq above 80 is required and have no issue going full ad hominem on some, and tell you that this was expected given you loaded a non highly stable update, clearly have zero clue about modern software engineering. Acting like you somehow insulted their baby, both defensively and agressively, when they have nothing to do with BI’s development is a clear sign of, err, never mind ... Tells you all you need to know about them, to paraphrase earlier comment. Oh well, there’s one or more in every crowd, unfortunately. Just do some additional checking homework when following advice of such non experts.
My 2c, already way too long. Hope this helps some.
PS: Yup, I just signed up, although I’ve checked this forum sporadically for years. Just never felt the need to do so earlier as I never had any serious issues with BI.
Or just don't update to beta releases... Problem solved..
You should not trust any software in terms of security and therefore should not open any VMS to the internet.... You should be using some sort of VPN to gain access...

I run over 20 Blue Iris machines with none of these issues... You know why! because I don't install experimental beta releases...

Blue Iris is not for folks with update OCD... And it's unfortunate that you too have an IQ under 80.

With beta releases you should expect the software not to work and not to record to crash etc... So if you're willing to take that risk why is it that you're not willing to risk deletion of older video?

You are in the same position as if you're hard drive failed.... Except this was self-induced.
 
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