EMPIRETECANDY
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YES, we will release it very soon. On the way to US.
Dahua WIZMIND X SERIES
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MrRobinHood
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Anytime, just send me one...
biggen
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The 5442-Z4E will beat that at low light. Same sensor size on both cams but the Z4E at 4MP will be getting more light per pixel.
Have you looked at the f-stop too? That new cam will collect nearly 80% more light than the 4MP variant. So the difference may not be as bad as looks on first glance.
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Parley
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I think you are comparing apples to oranges. What I think is happening is that there are new sensors coming out in the 1/1.8" size with new technology. Dahua is going to employ them in the WizMind X series and I would guess in other products as well. For a sample of the capabilities, look at the release of the new 180 degree cameras from Dahua and Hikvision. They are based on the 1/1.8" sensor and they have great night vision so to speak.
biggen
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Isn’t the 180 two 5442s stitched together? We already know the 5442 is the king of 4MP cameras so that really isn’t surprising it has great low light capabilities.
But putting an 8MP camera on the same size sensor of a 5442 isn’t really what I would call new.
I know someone here (but forgot who) got the 8MP and said the 5442 still beats it at night time, not as much as one would expect due to the newer tech.
Yeah i wouldn't compare the 180 to the 4K/T in terms of true performance. The 180 as pointed out is basically two 5442's stitched together, but the 4K/T needs way less light.
But with that said, The 180 needs less light than the previous 5442 series, so there is definitely some improvements in tech or firmware. And someone here said the newer 5442 series is better, so I suspect it and the 180 is the same tech.
Yeah i wouldn't compare the 180 to the 4K/T in terms of true performance. The 180 as pointed out is basically two 5442's stitched together, but the 4K/T needs way less light.
But with that said, The 180 needs less light than the previous 5442 series, so there is definitely some improvements in tech or firmware. And someone here said the newer 5442 series is better, so I suspect it and the 180 is the same tech.
Parley
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Here are the specifications for the 8MP camera mentioned above. Look specifically at the Lux numbers/ Min. Illumination.
IPC-HFW7842H-Z-X (dahuasecurity.com)
IPC-HFW7842H-Z-X (dahuasecurity.com)
I personally don't pay attention to the minimum illumination specs...because those are under ideal situations with so many factors not known.
Almost every camera will say 0 LUX with infrared on, and we all know how poorly Reolinks perform at night in low light yet that is their spec....
Once upon a time manufacturers would at least say at what shutter speed that rating was based on. Most would say a 1/3 shutter. That is way to slow for anything.
But now they don't even provide that, so in most cases it is a wide open iris, slowest shutter the camera allows, and gain and brightness cranked to 100 so that they can get the lowest illumination number possible.
But nobody would run the camera in that configuration.
Some of the older cameras would give these kind of specs so you knew how the camera was setup to come up with the minimum illumination.
0.002Lux/F1.5 ( Color,1/3s,30IRE)
0.020Lux/F1.5 ( Color,1/30s,30IRE)
0Lux/F1.5 (IR on)
So of course, the faster the shutter, the more light that is needed.
But as more competition came out, manufacturers started playing games and tweaking the settings for getting the lowest lux possible, but that came at a cost of a configuration nobody would use. So they wouldn't say how the camera was configured to capture that minimum illumination rating.
They play these marketing games to make it look like the camera is better than it is for someone that is just chasing minimum illumination numbers. Kind of like how we rarely get the miles per gallon a car is rated for.
It is a tool, but I would prefer to see the reviews here with settings provided and make an educated guess as to if my light is more or less than the reviewer.
Almost every camera will say 0 LUX with infrared on, and we all know how poorly Reolinks perform at night in low light yet that is their spec....
Once upon a time manufacturers would at least say at what shutter speed that rating was based on. Most would say a 1/3 shutter. That is way to slow for anything.
But now they don't even provide that, so in most cases it is a wide open iris, slowest shutter the camera allows, and gain and brightness cranked to 100 so that they can get the lowest illumination number possible.
But nobody would run the camera in that configuration.
Some of the older cameras would give these kind of specs so you knew how the camera was setup to come up with the minimum illumination.
0.002Lux/F1.5 ( Color,1/3s,30IRE)
0.020Lux/F1.5 ( Color,1/30s,30IRE)
0Lux/F1.5 (IR on)
So of course, the faster the shutter, the more light that is needed.
But as more competition came out, manufacturers started playing games and tweaking the settings for getting the lowest lux possible, but that came at a cost of a configuration nobody would use. So they wouldn't say how the camera was configured to capture that minimum illumination rating.
They play these marketing games to make it look like the camera is better than it is for someone that is just chasing minimum illumination numbers. Kind of like how we rarely get the miles per gallon a car is rated for.
It is a tool, but I would prefer to see the reviews here with settings provided and make an educated guess as to if my light is more or less than the reviewer.
Parley
Known around here
Bigredfish has the WizMind S series camera and he noticed a nice improvement over the previous versions of the camera with pictures provided by him. So, some of my theory is based on that report. We shall see around the middle of May, as that is when Andy says the new X series cameras will be available. I will purchase one when they are available for a look see.
bigredfish
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True but I think they're still useful in comparison within series and manufacturer. There does seem to be some consistency within a series
F-stop may be an even better indicator and it is a measurable spec.
For instance the new 5442H-ZHE's I bought seem to me to be clearly better at night in IR than previous 5442's and the specs indicate it
0.0006 lux@F1.2 (Color, 30 IRE)
0.0003 lux@F1.2 (B/W, 30 IRE)
0 lux (Illuminator on)
vs the standard 5442E-ZHE..
0.0007 lux@F1.8 (Color, 30 IRE)
0.0004 lux@F1.8 (B/W, 30 IRE)
0 lux (Illuminator on)
I also recall the clear differences in VF vs fixed cameras of the same series and model
Review: Dahua HFW5442T-ASE 4MP Starlight+
The fixed lens has better min. illumination specs and it seems to hold true.
IPC-B5442T-ASE (Fixed) Minimum Illumination 0.001 Lux@F1.6
HFW5442E-ZE (VF) Minimum Illumination 0.002 Lux@F1.8
And back in 2020 when i compared a plain fixed 3.6mm 5442 ASE bullet vs the then new 'NI" full color model.
Same camera, different sensor and MUCH different F-Stop of F1.0 vs F1.6
Review: OEM IPC-B5442T-ASE-NI 4MP Pro AI Starlight Full-color Fixed Bullet
So while I agree manufacturers play games with min illumination, i do think by and large they are useful in comparison especially with a F-Stop difference of .2 or more
F-stop may be an even better indicator and it is a measurable spec.
For instance the new 5442H-ZHE's I bought seem to me to be clearly better at night in IR than previous 5442's and the specs indicate it
0.0006 lux@F1.2 (Color, 30 IRE)
0.0003 lux@F1.2 (B/W, 30 IRE)
0 lux (Illuminator on)
vs the standard 5442E-ZHE..
0.0007 lux@F1.8 (Color, 30 IRE)
0.0004 lux@F1.8 (B/W, 30 IRE)
0 lux (Illuminator on)
I also recall the clear differences in VF vs fixed cameras of the same series and model
Review: Dahua HFW5442T-ASE 4MP Starlight+
The fixed lens has better min. illumination specs and it seems to hold true.
IPC-B5442T-ASE (Fixed) Minimum Illumination 0.001 Lux@F1.6
HFW5442E-ZE (VF) Minimum Illumination 0.002 Lux@F1.8
And back in 2020 when i compared a plain fixed 3.6mm 5442 ASE bullet vs the then new 'NI" full color model.
Same camera, different sensor and MUCH different F-Stop of F1.0 vs F1.6
Review: OEM IPC-B5442T-ASE-NI 4MP Pro AI Starlight Full-color Fixed Bullet
So while I agree manufacturers play games with min illumination, i do think by and large they are useful in comparison especially with a F-Stop difference of .2 or more
So then what happens to it post review?
I do not know. I imagine that Looney keeps it? I have no idea what the reviewers do with these cams after the review. Never asked about it.
I know that Bigredfish gave away by lottery three of the ones he reviewed. I know this as I won one.
Timokreon
Getting comfortable
After the review why not use the camera? I understand maybe not being able to use the full zoom, but you still won the camera, use it.
I believe in using the proper camera for a specific use case. I have no use case for this cam. Now if it were the miniptz, that would be a different story. But this cam cannot fit anywhere that I want a cam.After the review why not use the camera? I understand maybe not being able to use the full zoom, but you still won the camera, use it.
To me it would be like rabbit hunting with an RPG.
Plus I think it is appropriate for the reviewer to get the cam as payment for the time and effort of the review.
Especially the time and effort Wildcat puts into the reviews and video editing and what not! His blow away any YouTuber that has hundreds of thousands of followers.
But Looney does a great job too and gives us good video of how the camera performs in the front yard of a typical subdivision street. I based many of my purchases on his reviews as my street doesn't have street lights either.
Take the number of hours putting together the review at a reasonable hourly rate, and the review is easily more expensive than most of the cameras being reviewed.
Now if Looney doesn't have a place for it when he is done with the review, if he wants to send it my way to compare it to the 49425, 49225, miniPTZ and Sunba PTZs, I am sure I can find a place for it
But Looney does a great job too and gives us good video of how the camera performs in the front yard of a typical subdivision street. I based many of my purchases on his reviews as my street doesn't have street lights either.
Take the number of hours putting together the review at a reasonable hourly rate, and the review is easily more expensive than most of the cameras being reviewed.
Now if Looney doesn't have a place for it when he is done with the review, if he wants to send it my way to compare it to the 49425, 49225, miniPTZ and Sunba PTZs, I am sure I can find a place for it
Not disagreeing either way, but even if the f-stops and everything else were identical, wouldn't the (same size) image sensor with the smaller pixels typically have better QE due to smaller photon wells (therefore less photons needed to elicit electron signal => more sensitive to low light)?
maybe it doesn't translate like this in practice due to other changes (reaching the limits of the cheap lens, pixels approaching scale of light wavelengths, etc), but that's what I recall when I was looking at just the 'image sensor' specs.
appears to be explained here:
I thought this was one reason why newer high MP phone cameras have decent low light performance.
Either way, I will likely be buying my next low light camera based on sensor size and min illum. @ f-stop (not MP), if I can't find any real comparison reviews. And you guys haven't let me down yet
I suspect this being a question of which trend is faster. If you reduce pixel area by 50% and gain 20% sensitivity, you are probably at a loss. Because that pixel will now only collect half as many photons. In any case, interesting article! Funnily enough, the conclusion of it is: Test it yourself...
However, going from f-stop 1.7 to 1.2 (rest unchanged) would increase the amount of light gathered by (1.7/1.2)² = 2.0. So twice as much light would compensate for half the pixel size. Now if you are right with sensitivity, it would even be an improvement.