DS-2CD2335FWD-I - Hikvision Ultra Low Light 3M camera

[Parley]

Here is a night time shot of my Dahua starlight I just installed today. The corner of the house where I have it installed is dark and I have it in color mode 24/7. There is a street light down the road across from the white pick-up truck.

 

[Parley]

Here is the old Hikvision at night. I believe the model is a DS-2342 with a 4mm lens and of course 4MP.

 

[triumph202]

DS-2CD4335FWD-I 3MP "Ultra Low Light" 4mm vs Dahua IPC-HDW5213R-Z varifocal 2MP "Starlight" day time.

I'll update these later (with the car in the shot like the previous examples) as that will potentially show up more differences in the detail. Being critical, the Hik does appear to be a bit soft in focus on the LHS. In this situation the bigger vertical FOV with the Hik is useful as it covers more of the driveway. The Hik example is distorted as the NVR export has compressed the 2048 × 1536 to 1920x1080.

I'll post more examples once it gets dark.

 

[triumph202]

Test at night. There's less natural light tonight as there's cloud cover and it has been raining, so less detail is visible in the front yard/s across the road. Three x 10 Watt LED visible flood lights lighting up my front yard.

Dahua IPC-HDW5213R-Z varifocal 2MP "Starlight"

DS-2CD4335FWD-I 3MP "Ultra Low Light" 4mm

I spent a lot of time trying to get the best out them both without getting too much noise (on the 4K 55" TV.) They're very close and a little tweak to either could make it appear better. The one thing I did notice is the Dahua blows out the number plate of the car in the driveway (I've obviously edited out the centre-most letters in both pics, but you can see from the end letters and small text below them.)

The two are totally different to set up for the best results. Drop the contrast below 50% on the Dahua and it suffers from "white out" losing all contrast (the same happens during the day.) The Hikivision benefits from a bit less contrast to bring out more detail in the shadows. The Dahua desperately needs the WDR on in order to get the best night vision, whereas the Hikvision's image turns to noise with anything but the slightest amount of WDR (it's common to all my Hikvision cameras and I generally leave it off.) Turn the colour saturation up on the Hik and it turns a very yellow colour at night @MrRalphMan (below 50 seems fine.) The exposure gain on them both is around 85-90, any higher wasn't improving the detail in the shadows. The Dahua was set to 50 and the Hik 100 by default from the factory.

They're both running factory firmware and haven't been updated. So there's potential for improvement there- Hikvision need to sort their WDR out. There are so many different settings/ combos that there's no way I can say for sure this is the best either can do. Both are on H265 with the best quality settings. The Dahua's settings for the max bit rate is comparatively much lower.

I will endeavour to do a test with no floodlighting out the front of the house and rely solely on their low light capabilities, then another using their built in IR.

Edit: I need to adjust the Dahua down a bit to stop it catching the bright light off the eaves.

 

[reeves1985]

Test at night. There's less natural light tonight as there's cloud cover and it has been raining, so less detail is visible in the front yard/s across the road. Three x 10 Watt LED visible flood lights lighting up my front yard.

Dahua IPC-HDW5213R-Z varifocal 2MP "Starlight"

DS-2CD4335FWD-I 3MP "Ultra Low Light" 4mm

I spent a lot of time trying to get the best out them both without getting too much noise (on the 4K 55" TV.) They're very close and a little tweak to either could make it appear better. The one thing I did notice is the Dahua blows out the number plate of the car in the driveway (I've obviously edited out the centre-most letters in both pics, but you can see from the end letters and small text below them.)

The two are totally different to set up for the best results. Drop the contrast below 50% on the Dahua and it suffers from "white out" losing all contrast (the same happens during the day.) The Hikivision benefits from a bit less contrast to bring out more detail in the shadows. The Dahua desperately needs the WDR on in order to get the best night vision, whereas the Hikvision's image turns to noise with anything but the slightest amount of WDR (it's common to all my Hikvision cameras and I generally leave it off.) Turn the colour saturation up on the Hik and it turns a very yellow colour at night @MrRalphMan (below 50 seems fine.) The exposure gain on them both is around 85-90, any higher wasn't improving the detail in the shadows. The Dahua was set to 50 and the Hik 100 by default from the factory.

They're both running factory firmware and haven't been updated. So there's potential for improvement there- Hikvision need to sort their WDR out. There are so many different settings/ combos that there's no way I can say for sure this is the best either can do. Both are on H265 with the best quality settings. The Dahua's settings for the max bit rate is comparatively much lower.

I will endeavour to do a test with no floodlighting out the front of the house and rely solely on their low light capabilities, then another using their built in IR.

Edit: I need to adjust the Dahua down a bit to stop it catching the bright light off the eaves.

That's a superb comparison.
Now you got the settings tweaked there's not much in it at all.
Colours slightly different but as you say a tweak of each setting could push either past the other.

What source did you purchase from as I'm curious now as I've always been a hik fan and all my gear is hik
But was impressed by the dahua
Be interesting for myself to compare as well

 

[triumph202]

I wouldn't recommend my source. The stated delivery time blew out big time and even then they couldn't supply a 12mm. I opted for a different lens just to get the order finalised.

I discovered a BLC (Back Lighting Control) setting on the Hik and within it there's an "auto" setting- that seems to bring up the detail a bit in the dark areas. I also played around with it's WDR a bit more, it can be used but IMHO Dahua's WDR and noise reduction is superior. The difference in the bit-stream is quite significant, like around 6000k vs 16000k with them both in H265.

If you've got a Hik NVR I'd go for the 2355- purely for the compatibility. Using ONVIF with the Dahua works, but I get the NVR saying it's running at 1280x720 and can't change it. The camera itself is set to 1920x1080 and the NVR's own LiveView stream data confirms it is 1920x1080.

 

[reeves1985]

I wouldn't recommend my source. The stated delivery time blew out big time and even then they couldn't supply a 12mm. I opted for a different lens just to get the order finalised.

I discovered a BLC (Back Lighting Control) setting on the Hik and within it there's an "auto" setting- that seems to bring up the detail a bit in the dark areas. I also played around with it's WDR a bit more, it can be used but IMHO Dahua's WDR and noise reduction is superior. The difference in the bit-stream is quite significant, like around 6000k vs 16000k with them both in H265.

If you've got a Hik NVR I'd go for the 2355- purely for the compatibility. Using ONVIF with the Dahua works, but I get the NVR saying it's running at 1280x720 and can't change it. The camera itself is set to 1920x1080 and the NVR's own LiveView stream data confirms it is 1920x1080.

That's weird my dahua is connected obviously with onvif and the not says it's running at 1080p
But as long as it records 1080p I suppose it doesn't really matter.
I'm not too fussed if I have to connect them as onvif as the nvr is purely a recording device and I run recordings 24/7
Any tinkering is done direct at the cameras.

I must admit though I do like the dahua starlight stuff now.
The only thing I don't like is how the profiles are set up. You set one normal one for day and one for night. Which is great until you try and control them you only have the option for normal always day always night always normal. Or schedule.
The profiles won't automatically switch at say at dawn/dusk without setting up a schedule which is a pain and with daylight saving time in the UK means it's always off slightly or you always having to mess about with it

 

[Parley]

You can sure see the difference in the aspect ratios of the two cameras. Looking at the truck and the trash can across the street for example. Also looking at the bricks in the house across the street in daylight, I would give the Dahua a slight edge. Could be in the focus though or the Dahua being varafocal is zoomed in a tad more.

 

[del_piero_3]

The two are totally different to set up for the best results. Drop the contrast below 50% on the Dahua and it suffers from "white out" losing all contrast (the same happens during the day.) The Hikivision benefits from a bit less contrast to bring out more detail in the shadows. The Dahua desperately needs the WDR on in order to get the best night vision, whereas the Hikvision's image turns to noise with anything but the slightest amount of WDR (it's common to all my Hikvision cameras and I generally leave it off.) Turn the colour saturation up on the Hik and it turns a very yellow colour at night @MrRalphMan (below 50 seems fine.) The exposure gain on them both is around 85-90, any higher wasn't improving the detail in the shadows. The Dahua was set to 50 and the Hik 100 by default from the factory.

Mate excellent review. Is it possible for you to summarise all the settings you have changed on Dahua 5231? not that the same settings will yield the same results for me but at least it will give me some foundations to start with. Thanks

 

[sharpharp]

Well done on the comparison Triumph, just waiting for your "No floodlight at night" pics to help me decide which one to go for.

Looking at the pics, the Hik ULL appears sharper during the day and also better at picking up the license plate letters at night (although it is floodlit)

I have no night floodlights and here in the UK, the streetlights have changed from orange to LEDs which means even darker streets as the angle of ambient light is narrower.
The true decider for me is what the Starlight and the Hik ULL are like in complete darkness. I do have a spare IR illuminator if required, but just want to see which is the best in the dark with no additional lighting.

 

[reeves1985]

Well done on the comparison Triumph, just waiting for your "No floodlight at night" pics to help me decide which one to go for.

Looking at the pics, the Hik ULL appears sharper during the day and also better at picking up the license plate letters at night (although it is floodlit)

I have no night floodlights and here in the UK, the streetlights have changed from orange to LEDs which means even darker streets as the angle of ambient light is narrower.
The true decider for me is what the Starlight and the Hik ULL are like in complete darkness. I do have a spare IR illuminator if required, but just want to see which is the best in the dark with no additional lighting.

I've got those horrible led streetlights outside my house.
How dark do they make the streets if your not directly under them. Asking for trouble installing them if you ask me.

There is another dahua starlight which is ultra grade that has a lux of 0.002 and a bigger sensor.
But it's a full size bullet.
I'm actually considering getting one for the back to see the difference between the 0.005 and the 0.002 ultra. But at £250 It's not exactly a bargain.
If you go to the dahua section @nayr has done in depth reviews of the starlight with images and videos in total darkness which would give you an idea of to what to expect.
I'm still debating whether to try the hik or splash out on the ultra
Or even a varifocal starlight bullet

 

[triumph202]

That's weird my dahua is connected obviously with onvif and the not says it's running at 1080p
But as long as it records 1080p I suppose it doesn't really matter.
I'm not too fussed if I have to connect them as onvif as the nvr is purely a recording device and I run recordings 24/7
Any tinkering is done direct at the cameras.

I must admit though I do like the dahua starlight stuff now.
The only thing I don't like is how the profiles are set up. You set one normal one for day and one for night. Which is great until you try and control them you only have the option for normal always day always night always normal. Or schedule.
The profiles won't automatically switch at say at dawn/dusk without setting up a schedule which is a pain and with daylight saving time in the UK means it's always off slightly or you always having to mess about with it

Yes, the Dahau set up is very intricate in how it works. The available options vary depending on if you've got Day, Normal or Night selected. You'll lose the WDR option completely if you've got the wrong one selected. I was swearing at it last night because I'd saved all my settings and as soon as I logged out it reverted to a really dark scene. It turned out I'd been setting up Normal but it was reverting to Day when I was logging out (or at least I think that's what it was.....)

You can sure see the difference in the aspect ratios of the two cameras. Looking at the truck and the trash can across the street for example. Also looking at the bricks in the house across the street in daylight, I would give the Dahua a slight edge. Could be in the focus though or the Dahua being varafocal is zoomed in a tad more.

You're better off looking at the last post with the dark stills- they're taken directly off the camera and aren't distorted. The previous two are both 1920x1080 out of the NVR- it seems to only do that size for screen captures and has squished and stretched the 2335's 4:3 aspect ratio to fit. The 4:3 aspect ratio will actually work better for me in a couple of locations.

Mate excellent review. Is it possible for you to summarise all the settings you have changed on Dahua 5231? not that the same settings will yield the same results for me but at least it will give me some foundations to start with. Thanks

I'll get them and post them a bit later.

I've got those horrible led streetlights outside my house.
How dark do they make the streets if your not directly under them. Asking for trouble installing them if you ask me.

There is another dahua starlight which is ultra grade that has a lux of 0.002 and a bigger sensor.
But it's a full size bullet.
I'm actually considering getting one for the back to see the difference between the 0.005 and the 0.002 ultra. But at £250 It's not exactly a bargain.
If you go to the dahua section @nayr has done in depth reviews of the starlight with images and videos in total darkness which would give you an idea of to what to expect.
I'm still debating whether to try the hik or splash out on the ultra
Or even a varifocal starlight bullet

IMHO you might be better off investing in some sort of external lighting (IR or visible.) I don't feel you'll see much difference between 0.005 and 0.002 - for example look at the difference between my pics with the 0.05 Hik 2342 and the 0.005 Starlight. You don't need much extra visible light to get a good result with either of these.

 

[reeves1985]

I agree although I don't need extra lighting on the front as there is enough to run the low lights fine it was more curiosity really

 

[triumph202]

Mate excellent review. Is it possible for you to summarise all the settings you have changed on Dahua 5231? not that the same settings will yield the same results for me but at least it will give me some foundations to start with. Thanks

These are the settings I left them on last night:

(I forgot to include the firmware version for the Hik. It's whatever it shipped with.)

A vehicle going past last night:

So both off the NVR (hence distortion on the 2335) using the above settings. There's probably a setting to change the playback for the NVR to 4:3 - I know there is one to change it on Liveview on the web login but I can't find anything on the NVR?

 

[aristobrat]

The true decider for me is what the Starlight and the Hik ULL are like in complete darkness. I do have a spare IR illuminator if required, but just want to see which is the best in the dark with no additional lighting.

The challenge I have with my Dahua varifocal in complete darkness is that the built-in IR casts towards the center of the frame (when the camera is zoomed all of the way out), which makes the sides much darker.

One surprise (to me) with the Dahua is how well their "IVS" works for me compared to Hik's "Smart Events". I've been able to tune the Dahua's for significantly fewer false alerts compared to a Hik camera I have running running 5.4.0.

 

[reeves1985]

The challenge I have with my Dahua varifocal in complete darkness is that the built-in IR casts towards the center of the frame (when the camera is zoomed all of the way out), which makes the sides much darker.

One surprise (to me) with the Dahua is how well their "IVS" works for me compared to Hik's "Smart Events". I've been able to tune the Dahua's for significantly fewer false alerts compared to a Hik camera I have running running 5.4.0.

Your always going to get that with a varifocal as it's got to cover all zoom lengths
Probably the best way would be to add a separate ir illuminator or ambient lighting is preferable if possible

 

[triumph202]

These are the settings I left them on last night:

Note: I made a mistake with those Dahua settings I posted previously- where I've specified under Exposure - Manual - 1/25th , I should have selected Manual - Range. That then gives the option to set up a range for exposure times. I should have then entered "0" to "40ms" ie. that limits the longest exposure to 1/25th second and the fastest to whatever the camera is capable of. (With the Hik set up you just have a single shutter speed option to enter and it automatically uses anything that speed or faster.) Sorry about that. It hasn't affected those night time results posted in the same post, but was causing the day time video to go haywire lose definition.

I did some testing last night using natural light and IR. The captures I saved from the Hik web page "disappeared" - courtesy of IE Trusted Sites blocking the saving of them. (I thought I'd fixed that issue already, but that was logging in through the NVR's LAN port. I had to use the NVR's POE port instead- due to being unable to access the Dahua through the Hik NVR's host function. So the POE port means that's a different IP, which was blocked .) So I'll do them again!

The challenge I have with my Dahua varifocal in complete darkness is that the built-in IR casts towards the center of the frame (when the camera is zoomed all of the way out), which makes the sides much darker.

Yes, I've mentioned that before too. The Dahua 5231 was pretty useless zoomed all the way out in my backyard- both sides of the frame were in darkness with no IR coverage. That's where the fixed lens version would hopefully be better? I replaced it with a 4MP 2.8mm Hik and ironically it works a lot better with full IR coverage.

The 5231's IR works better out overlooking my front driveway, I'm guessing because the driveway slopes up away from the house towards the road. So the IR must be spreading by reflecting off the pavers? However, in that position the 5231 suffers badly from it's own IR reflecting off the house eaves, whereas the Hik 2335 doesn't appear to suffer anywhere near as bad from it's IR (and they're mount together.) More about that when I redo the testing in the dark with no flood lights

 

[alastairstevenson]

had to use the NVR's POE port instead- due to being unable to access the Dahua through the Hik NVR's host function.

If you're inclined to experiment - you can access PoE-connected cameras directly on a Hikvision NVR.
3 things required :

Enable 'Virtual Host' - the tick box under web GUI Network | Advanced Settings | Other. This implicitly activates the Linux kernel 'IP_forward' (not to be confused with port forwarding) facility to route traffic between the NVR PoE and LAN interfaces.

Ensure that the default gateway setting on the PoE-connected cameras is the NVR PoE interface IP address, usually 192.168.254.1

Create a 'static route' on your LAN gateway/router to inform LAN devices how to reach the NVR PoE network segment.
Something like 'For network 192.168.254.0, subnet mask 255.255.255.0, use <NVR_LAN_interface_IP_address> as the gateway'.

Then the PoE-connected cameras can be accessed from the LAN via their native (192.168.254.x) IP address.
To confirm connectivity, ping the address or use 'tracert 192.168.254.x' to check the route.

 

[sharpharp]

Triumph,

Totally know first hand about the IR reflecting of the house eaves........ When i replaced my original 3MP HIK 4mm turret with a 4MP HIK 2.88mm turret i had no idea the smaller lense would reflect of the roof cladding, it's that bad at night you might as well switch the camera off.

This is the reason i'm buying a 6mm HIK ULL or Duhua.

Anyone managed to get the night time pics with no lighting other than pure built-in IR?

 

[triumph202]

If you're inclined to experiment - you can access PoE-connected cameras directly on a Hikvision NVR.
3 things required :

Enable 'Virtual Host' - the tick box under web GUI Network | Advanced Settings | Other. This implicitly activates the Linux kernel 'IP_forward' (not to be confused with port forwarding) facility to route traffic between the NVR PoE and LAN interfaces.

Ensure that the default gateway setting on the PoE-connected cameras is the NVR PoE interface IP address, usually 192.168.254.1

Create a 'static route' on your LAN gateway/router to inform LAN devices how to reach the NVR PoE network segment.
Something like 'For network 192.168.254.0, subnet mask 255.255.255.0, use <NVR_LAN_interface_IP_address> as the gateway'.

Then the PoE-connected cameras can be accessed from the LAN via their native (192.168.254.x) IP address.
To confirm connectivity, ping the address or use 'tracert 192.168.254.x' to check the route.

Can I do something like that if I'm simply using a laptop connected directly to the NVR? (I don't have the NVR connected to an external network.)