DS-2CD2335FWD-I - Hikvision Ultra Low Light 3M camera

[alastairstevenson]

You don't have the NVR on your LAN?

Can I do something like that if I'm simply using a laptop connected directly to the NVR?

In theory, yes, but you'd have to add the static route to the laptop instead. And match the laptop IP address to that assigned to the NVR LAN interface.
If you are plugging the laptop directly to the NVR LAN port, you'd be as well to continue connecting the laptop to the NVR PoE ports for all the difference it makes.

 

[triumph202]

Noting the previously mentioned issues with the IR reflecting off the house eaves.

1/25th second inbuilt IR on. I have many problems with this set up which which have "washed out" the picture-

1. Driveway slopes up from garage to a hump- which then falls off to the gutter/ road (hence IR hot spot on pavers),
2. Camera is mounted in the gap between the garage roller door and lintel- so has the full width of the house's eaves (to reflect the built in IR),
3. Camera has to be aimed up towards eave in order to see the relatively high road's traffic.
4. I was walking and didn't pause
5. Taken off NVR so picture is distorted to 1920x1080

Locked in colour at 1/25th using 10 Watt LED flood lights (and I did briefly pause this time!) At a guess I'd be roughly 7 metres from the camera?

I can't compare the Starlight this time as I decided to upgrade the firmware and the got the password wrong three times. Apparently I've got a dodgy key on the laptop and apparently three wrong password attempts lock you out (a later problem! ) (BTW it suffers much more from the IR reflection going by testing last night.)

 

[Parley]

Thank you for all the testing. I am following along closely. I am prepared to take mine back down and make some changes. For one I cannot remember what I did with the WDR. I was thinking of something around 20% but I see yours is at 26%.

 

[wxman]

Note: I made a mistake with those Dahua settings I posted previously- where I've specified under Exposure - Manual - 1/25th , I should have selected Manual - Range. That then gives the option to set up a range for exposure times. I should have then entered "0" to "40ms" ie. that limits the longest exposure to 1/25th second and the fastest to whatever the camera is capable of. (With the Hik set up you just have a single shutter speed option to enter and it automatically uses anything that speed or faster.) Sorry about that. It hasn't affected those night time results posted in the same post, but was causing the day time video to go haywire lose definition.

As far as I can tell, you could also leave the shutter on "auto" and get these same results...It will auto select anything from 1/25 (or 1/30) to as fast as the cam supports. Only time you'd really need to set a manual range is if you wanted slower shutter (down to 1/3) or you wanted to limit the shutter to a faster speed for capturing motion better..

 

[triumph202]

Thank you for all the testing. I am following along closely. I am prepared to take mine back down and make some changes. For one I cannot remember what I did with the WDR. I was thinking of something around 20% but I see yours is at 26%.

That's on the Dahua 5231R-Z Starlight- incidentally Dahua disable that function in "Night" mode. So I'll have to try it without the WDR, I think they enable only BLC at night?

I've found enabling BLC to AUTO is best for the Hik 2355, I haven't really found a useful gain with WDR- it just increases noise. (BLC has more of an effect when I'm using the LED flood lights, which makes sense given how bright the driveway is compared to the houses across the road.)

As far as I can tell, you could also leave the shutter on "auto" and get these same results...It will auto select anything from 1/25 (or 1/30) to as fast as the cam supports. Only time you'd really need to set a manual range is if you wanted slower shutter (down to 1/3) or you wanted to limit the shutter to a faster speed for capturing motion better..

What's to stop either cam going to a longer exposure? I originally started setting the limit at 1/25th because my 4MP Hiks were going to longer exposures and cars were massive blurs across the screen.

I've noticed Dahua even quote their IPC-HDW5231R-Z specs as 0.006 Lux spec at 1/3 sec IPC-HDW5231R-Z | Dahua Technology :

0.006Lux/F1.4 ( Color,1/3s,30IRE)
0.05Lux/F1.4 ( Color,1/30s,30IRE)

Hikvision don't quote direct figures for Lux vs exposure times but do say Hangzhou Hikvision Digital Technology Co. Ltd. :

Min. Illumination:| Color: 0.005 lux @(F1.2, AGC ON), 0 lux with IR
Shutter time: | 1/3 s to 1/100,000 s

There is a "Shutter Priority" setting on the Dahua which becomes active when certain other settings are on (I'm guessing it was in Night mode?) The Hikvision doesn't have any similar function in the firmware.

 

[wxman]

What's to stop either cam going to a longer exposure? I originally started setting the limit at 1/25th because my 4MP Hiks were going to longer exposures and cars were massive blurs across the screen.

Would have to test to make sure since yours is a different model, but on the starlight PTZ, it does not support auto slow exposure, only manual slow exposure. In auto mode it stops at either 1/25 or 1/30...The only way I can get the slower exposure (down to 1/3) is to go to manual mode. Again, may be worth testing just in case your model supports auto slow exposure.

 

[sharpharp]

Going to order one today... Votes plz, Dahua Starlight or the Hik ULL?

 

[triumph202]

I was testing again last night and have found some differences of note (all IPC-HDW5231R-Z vs DS-2CD2335WD-I 4mm) The below comments refer to both locked in colour at 1/25th minimum exposure using visible flood lights:

- Dahua has the exposure gain set at 50%, Hik has it set at 100% (defaults.) You can increase the Dahua and get some really impressive looking stills, but when I did a walk test very bizarre things happened- like ghosting of me walking in the lower light areas. So don't go increasing it much past 50. The Hik looked worse for shadow detail (and noise) but showed clearer images of me in the shadows.

- Bit stream wise, with both in H265, the Dahua is something like 1/3 the data rate of the Hik. The Dahua noise reduction seems superior (so less changing pixels= less data with H265- from what I've read) but I'm also wondering if that has something to do with the "ghosting" I found? Given 2MP vs 3MP I'd have expected 2/3 the data stream.

- The Dahua has a very washed out/ low contrast look (with original firmware and freshly updated.) Dropping the contrast below 50/100 quickly whites out the whole scene, like literally going from 50 to 49 is a huge step. The low contrast gives better detail in the shadows at night. The Hik has a lot better contrast at the default 50/100 and needs to be dropped to around 10/100 to give similar contrast to the Dahua at it's 50/100. Even at that setting it never gets the really low contrast washed out look. Increasing the contrast on the Dahua much past 55% quickly results in the shadows getting too contrasty (a new word?)

- The Hik brightness seems to have little effect at night (eg. from 60 - 80%) if you try increasing it to get better light in the shadows. It blows out the bright areas but has little effect on the shadows.

- Firmware wise, the Dahua has a lot more settings that can be adjusted. The Hik's firmware seems comparatively very basic in it's options.

- The Dahua uses around half the power of the Hik. I've got no idea why. My 4MP 2342 Hiks and the Dahua use around 2.7W with no IR on, the Hik 2335 is around 5-6 Watts.

I'll add some captures to this thread a bit later. Keep in mind I'm no expert and the above comments are just my impressions from using both. I also updated the firmware on the Dahua yesterday.

 

[triumph202]

Okay, no captures from last night, but I have found something out (the hard way.)

It appears I made a big mistake in raising the bit rate of the Hik up to it's 16384 odd maximum. I just did a factory reset on it and the default bit rate was 8192 in H264- which results in significantly less noise in the darker areas on the video. That also makes sense when comparing the Dahua's maximum bit rate which only allows a maximum of 6400 (in H265) and cannot be raised higher. As shown in my previous captures I was getting significantly more noise on the Hik, the shadow noise level is now comparable to the Dahua.

The lower bit rate most likely forces the firmware to be smarter and eliminate unnecessary pixel changes, reducing noise. The detail of the visible image still looks very good. This is all still with the LED flood lights, 1-25th minimum and Hik in auto for day/ night (it will happily stay in colour with the flood lights on and auto switch to night with IR if they're off) and the Dahua locked in Day/ colour as it won't automatically stay in Day mode with the flood lights on.

Hik off NVR (disadvantaged by the NVR compressing it to 1920x1080- hence the "flat cat")

Dahua off NVR (native 1080P off NVR, I've also boosted the saturation a bit on the Dahua)

I've mentioned it before, but you will see the Hik 4mm is definitely soft in focus on the LHS of the image (tree, letter box.) It's pretty disappointing that a budget varifocal can give sharper focus across the whole frame than a simpler fixed lens! This looks like a common problem with them given @MrRalphMan had the 12mm with bad focus and his 6mm showed some softness on the RHS.

I'll be swapping my (untested) Hik DS-2CD2335WD-I 6mm into the above spot tomorrow and will be putting the 4mm into a position where the IR can be tested without the reflection from the overhanging eaves.

I've also previously posted problems with my Dahua IPC-HDW5231R-Z giving poor quality daylight pictures with noticeable jagged steps on diagonal straight edges, that problem fixed itself a couple of days ago after a reboot of my NVR and cameras. My NVR still says it's getting a 720P ONVIF signal in the settings, but on Liveview its always correctly said 1080P.

 

[Parley]

With the last two pictures I would give a slight edge to the Hikvision camera.

 

[triumph202]

It's a massive improvement on the 4K 55" TV. I just need to work out if I can somehow get my Hikvision 7608 NVR to actually do the playback/ captures in the native 2048 × 1536 instead of compressing them down to 1080P. It's a bit frustrating having the extra pixels and not being able to utilise them. I even tried the 2335 in 1080P, but it was using the lower portion of the frame so would require re aiming the camera.

At the moment the only way to get native res captures is off the camera's Liveview where you can specify 4:3, 16:9 or 100% (using my old notebook via a POE port.) I'll try logging into the NVR itself via the POE port and see if there are additional playback options or if the playback and capture stays at the native 4:3 ratio. I haven't found anywhere in the settings where I can specify the 2048x1536 for captures- the only options are some lower resolutions (for mobile phone viewing) and then "best" or "highest" quality with no res specified.

 

[Parley]

Let us know what you find out.

 

[triumph202]

@Parley, so there's a setting in the NVR web page for the ratio format of the Liveview, which also seems to do the playback ratio. You can set "Auto Fill" (current setting that stretches it), 16:9 or 4:3. So I can have 4:3 and get two cameras right, 16:9 and the others okay and "Auto Fill" might as well just be called 16:9- that's basically what it seems to do! I need to check what effect it has on the NVR HDMI output now that I've left it in 4:3. I haven't found any settings on the NVR itself.

Some good news the DS-2CD2335FWD-I 3MP Ultra Low Light 6mm seems to have good focus across the lens. Some screen captures below- night shots as normal but with a wet road and some low cloud. I need to check settings and see what bit rate is best:

6mm day

6mm at night- set auto switch to night and IR if lights fail

The 4mm has been moved and works very well in it's new position.

Previous Hik DS-2CD2342FWD-I 4MP 2.8mm at night other end of house (1/25th locked in colour, 10 Watt LED flood light from above.)

Same conditions with DS-2CD2335WFD-I 3MP 4mm Ultra Low Light - set to auto day/ night 1/25th

DS-2CD2335WFD-I 3MP 4mm Ultra Low Light day time

DS-2CD2335WFD-I 3MP 4mm Ultra Low Light with all LED floods lights off, auto switched to night with inbuilt IR on.

IPC-HDW5231R-Z 2MP Starlight re-aimed and zoomed in a bit closer to cover the car. Pushing it's limits in colour and the IR just washes out big time (still in same location under eaves.)

 

[sharpharp]

Triumph, where did you buy your 6mm Hik from?

 

[Parley]

No question the DS-2CD2335WFD-I is a nice improvement over the standard Hikvision cameras. I have a 2MP 4mm bullet style on order that will come in someday. This week I will take my Dahua Starlight back down and change it over from color at night and make a couple of other changes and see how that works. Here are a couple of pictures from the Dahua Starlight from last night with a cat in the picture and one with a car. IR is turned off and no back light and of course color on 24/7. Only street lights from a distance is the only lighting. I have been adjusting the saturation to get rid of some "noise".

 

[bigredfish]

Do you have any video clips you can share of that at night in color mode?

 

[bigredfish]

Wow that was fast! Thank you.

Awesome image obviously,... I think I do see a little motion blur/fuzzy's (technical term) on the moving red car and just a wee bit on the one in B&W, not criticizing, just noting because that is what I see with my one 2MP Starlight and while it's in a relatively brightly lit scene as is yours, it's still not quite enough light to completely get rid of a little blur/fuzzy's on moving vehicles...I'm convinced the location as well as intensity of the white light is the deciding factor, as I have other Starlights that have different lighting that show no signs of this...

Again not nitpicking, just have been on a mission lately to isolate motion blur however slight and keep gathering data points to help figure it out.

 

[bigredfish]

There are a couple of clips I posted in a thread - 2 at the bottom of page 3 that are 8231 Starlights. The one using WDR shows obvious blur the one without WDR is minimal but naturally darker Cam catches thieves - makes me wish I bought better camera
https://ipcamtalk.com/threads/cam-catches-thieves-makes-me-wish-i-bought-better-camera.18616/page-3
Here's another that clearly shows blur even under that great light, due to WDR 20. Watch the pickup when he stops and reverses..


And to tell the truth, now that I look closely even the ones at my house do show signs of blur...they are CVI Starlights
Look at the first/newest two on my youtube channel bigredfish59

I'm jealous of the image quality of your 8MP shots and the 3MP HIKvision in this thread also. With the right light they are awesome even at night in color. I guess I was trying to get some confirmation that it wasn't just my cams that have some blur at night in color. Still learning...

That Huisun clip is incredibly clear thanks. I suppose zoom plays a part, but for all of the troubles some have had with them they seem to have an incredible nighttime picture quality.

 

[triumph202]

@Ijw2k Oh how I wish I had street lighting that bright where I live!

@bigredfish That's still pretty good. You're lucky the vehicles are coming towards your camera and then have to slow down to do the u turn. Perhaps BLC could help with detail on the vehicles as the road reflects a lot of light. It might also result in the exposure time increasing which you don't want for less blur.

 

[triumph202]

Triumph, where did you buy your 6mm Hik from?

From this store SECURE LIFE Surveillance System - Small Orders Online Store, Hot Selling and more on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group - but I would check they have stock (don't believe their fast processing times!) There was a 2-3 week delay until they had the 6mm in stock and the 12mm I originally ordered wasn't coming in until the 8th of May!!! I opted for the 4mm instead- which they did have stock of.