Expecting to much

Dsmtweaker said:
I was saying you would accept the job, then discuss the specifics, not discuss the specifics before accepting the job.
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That's ass-backwards for myself. I want to know if I can do the job...ALL of the job...before I accept the job, so I want to know up front ALL the details and what the customer wants and expects.

This reminds of the doctor in 2016 that bought my 28 foot, 7,000 lb. travel trailer that I pulled with a 2008 Ford F-250 Super Duty with 6.2L Powerstroke Diesel and a 12,000 lb. hitch.
I met him halfway to his residence, about 85 miles away to turn it over to him and he shows up with a 2002 Toyota Tundra (1st gen) that is rated to pull 4,900 lbs. He bought a trailer without even knowing what his truck could pull (and stop). Proof that eight years of education in the medical field doesn't guarantee understanding of some real-world facts (no insult intended). I have the utmost respect for doctors.
 
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TonyR said:
That's ass-backwards for myself. I want to know if I can do the job...ALL of the job...before I accept the job, so I want to know up front ALL the details and what the customer wants and expects.

This reminds of the doctor in 2016 that bought my 28 foot, 7,000 lb. travel trailer that I pulled with a 2008 Ford F-250 Super Duty with 6.2L Powerstroke Diesel and a 12,000 lb. hitch.
I met him halfway to his residence, about 85 miles away to turn it over to him and he shows up with a 2002 Toyota Tundra (1st gen) that is rated to pull 4,900 lbs. He bought a trailer without even knowing what his truck could pull (and stop). Proof that eight years of education in the medical field doesn't guarantee understanding of some real-world facts (no insult intended). I have the utmost respect for doctors.
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That would be more confidence than anything. You shouldn’t worry “if”, just know you can.

Case and point in 2007 a State University decided to move their IT and data to a 3rd party, and opened bidding. This isn’t a small project, as between students and faculty there were just under 60,000 users.

At the time we we were a small IT company, 3 employees, renting a store front, dealing with “mom and pop” networks and walk in clients who’s computer wouldn’t turn on. But still I bid on the contract, and we won. This involved building a full data center, working with providers to install fiber across the state(we are 200 miles from campus) adding staff(brought on 19) and a host of other things.

Point is, I knew I could deliver whatever they wanted, before knowing “exactly” what they wanted. Because I was confident in what we could accomplish.
 
Dsmtweaker said:
That would be more confidence than anything. You shouldn’t worry “if”, just know you can.

Case and point in 2007 a State University decided to move their IT and data to a 3rd party, and opened bidding. This isn’t a small project, as between students and faculty there were just under 60,000 users.

At the time we we were a small IT company, 3 employees, renting a store front, dealing with “mom and pop” networks and walk in clients who’s computer wouldn’t turn on. But still I bid on the contract, and we won. This involved building a full data center, working with providers to install fiber across the state(we are 200 miles from campus) adding staff(brought on 19) and a host of other things.

Point is, I knew I could deliver whatever they wanted, before knowing “exactly” what they wanted. Because I was confident in what we could accomplish.
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You rolled the dice and won. You're 36 years young according to your profile and if you're lucky and blessed you'll reach my age in another 34.
In that time I've see the wheels come off plenty of ventures that got off to a great start, so plan accordingly and best wishes.
 
Dsmtweaker said:
I’m not going to keep arguing or explaining simple transfer rates with you. I know how little it takes, and can confidently say I understand it better than you, and anyone you have ever met, combined.

That’s not an insult, that’s just the truth. Your out of your realm and knowledge on this one
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coming from an idiot who doesnt know the difference between bytes and bits, thinks that streaming is a term reserved for wan, and cant do basic bath to calculate bandwidth, I take no offense. You posted doctored images. I think its cute that you posted your image in jpeg - guess what jpeg is. I think the solution in your case is to mount your DSLR outside and use this Hikvision SRS Series Anti-Corrosive Wall Mounting Bracket (White)
 
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fenderman said:
coming from an idiot who doesnt know the difference between bytes and bits, thinks that streaming is a term reserved for wan, and cant do basic bath to calculate bandwidth, I take no offense. You posted doctored images. I think its cute that you posted your image in jpeg - guess what jpeg is. I think the solution in your case is to mount your DSLR outside and use this Hikvision SRS Series Anti-Corrosive Wall Mounting Bracket (White)
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Cool story bro, I can’t argue, or even communicate with your special kind of stupid. Can’t you go be worthless somewhere else? Or is this your only outlet for sucking at life?

Your attitude makes your knowledge worthless, to me, to this forum, and this community... you sir are worthless, personally, professionally, and otherwise
 
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Walrus said:
Bye?
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If I get banned, or the thread is closed on the account of that $&/clown. That would be a bad reflection on the forum and it’s moderators, not me.

He has given no useful information, a barrage of insults, and has proven on a public forum he is being useless.
 
Dsmtweaker said:
If I get banned, or the thread is closed on the account of that $&/clown. That would be a bad reflection on the forum and it’s moderators, not me.

He has given no useful information, a barrage of insults, and has proven on a public forum he is being useless.
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This clown owns The forum....you're going to get banned but this thread is going to stay here as a testament to your inexperience... You are a danger to anyone and their Network.... It's sad that people are paying you for this kind of shoddy work.
You like a fundamental understanding of networking and bandwidth... Once again another treasure who claims to have it experience but in reality he knows very little. A complete moron who promisd boss a Hollywood 4K production using $150 camera. Dope.
 
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fenderman said:
This clown owns The forum....you're going to get banned but this thread is going to stay here as a testament to your inexperience... You are a danger to anyone and their Network.... It's sad that people are paying you for this kind of shoddy work.
You like a fundamental understanding of networking and bandwidth... Once again another treasure who claims to have it experience but in reality he knows very little. A complete moron who promisd boss a Hollywood 4K production using $150 camera. Dope.
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So... you didn’t read the thread. I wasn’t paid to install a camera, I wasn’t contracted to install a camera. A business owner(not my boss, not my business) who is a friend asked me to swap out his 1080p camera with a 4K camera(which he had already bought and handed to me). Being it’s PoE I figured simple enough, plugged it in, and got it on his network for him.

He then asked about the quality so I said I would do some research for him.

This is not my client, not my project, not my promise.
 
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What a shit show lol. FWIW dsmtweaker i wondered the same thing you did when you posted the original question. And it was explained very good in several posts in this thread before it got completely wonky. Also several alternative options were given. I honestly liked the idea of more cameras. Heck just putting a zoomed cam next to the wide angle cam would get that plate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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+1^^.
2 proper cams + 1 good choke point = great plates + auto ID in/out.
 
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Dsmtweaker said:
So... you didn’t read the thread. I wasn’t paid to install a camera, I wasn’t contracted to install a camera. A business owner(not my boss, not my business) who is a friend asked me to swap out his 1080p camera with a 4K camera(which he had already bought and handed to me). Being it’s PoE I figured simple enough, plugged it in, and got it on his network for him.

He then asked about the quality so I said I would do some research for him.

This is not my client, not my project, not my promise.
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This was a general comment due to your lack of basic data transmission understanding. You are a danger to anyone you help/service. Your first post says nothing about installing as a favor, it reads the opposite. make up your mind.
 
fenderman said:
This was a general comment due to your lack of basic data transmission understanding. You are a danger to anyone you help/service. Your first post says nothing about installing as a favor, it reads the opposite. make up your mind.
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My mind is made kido , I can’t help your comprehension or lack there of. Big words and all.

Why are you still posting anyway, honestly, like most, I could give 2F’s your input, you have no knowledge on any topic that could elevate me, again, you are still useless(not my opinion). Isn’t there somewhere else you can go flex your internet muscles?
 
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Dsmtweaker said:
...
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@Dsmtweaker

"Come back with the data for the camera image which you believe meets your requirements.

Once you have that data you can work the problem out. Until then... "

Ok, still waiting for the data on the image specs from the Nikon 4K 3100...
image size, resolution and file size:
image format:
image ( optional ):
 
Dsmtweaker said:
Ok, fist let me state I am not a security camera guy by any means. I do the IT. But what I’m wondering, is for example with my DSLR, if I took a picture from that same spot with say my 18mm lens, and set it to a higher f-stop, like f22. I would have essentially the same I would have the same wide angle fov over the whole lot, but I could digitally zoom into the photo in post processing, and see that far plate clear as day. Since it’s using a higher megapixel count you don’t lose much detail even at 100+ feet

Why is it a vast difference when applied to a security camera?
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Dsmtweaker said:
Ok, some of it is, and all of those I understand. Yet with all of that, it doesn’t answer the question of the dslr comparison. Your telling me that compression(h264) takes that much quality(60+ %) from the dslr.

The lens portion doesn’t make sense, because the dslr lens is giving about the same fov.

The sensor doesn’t make sense, because that would effect the resolution much more than the quality.
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So, for those following this and wondering "why can't a security camera be like my 14megapixel Nikon DSLR and take amazing photos.. "

You can easily start with some simple math, which the original poster seemed to be challenged with despite his claims to be an amazing business person who can do business math to make piles of money making promises and not looking at business requirements.

1) Determine the image size you desire.
The only data we have is an example "full image" from the camera which is provided in post #16 ( ref: Expecting to much )
note, do ignore the other photos showing digital zoom x3 and x5 as they are not generated from the "full image" included in the post.
Data on image: size 3.5MB jpeg ( note, this actually can be closer to 4MB or even less depending on the complexity of the image.. I'm just using 3.5MB as a sampling for the math.. )

2) Determine the number of fps you want. Let's take 10 fps, seems like a good compromise for capturing enough motion and details.

So
SIZE in MBs per frame x fps = MBps or 35MBps +/- ( yes, I am ignoring any possible compression between the various frames as the OP wanted to keep as much detail as possible from each frame )

Ok how much storage do I need per day...
60 sec per minute x 60 minute per hour x 24 hours = 86400

multiply by the storage amount of 35MBps => 3024000 ~= 3TB per day of data from just one camera

OH, but I want it like a movie... 30 fps at least.. ok that is 9 TB per day of data..

YES - that's what I want.. and I should be able to get it for about the price of a Nikon 3100...

ummm... wait that Nikon 3100 can only take 3 fps at full resolution IF you have a fast enough memory card...


but wait, the JPEG image does not give enough detail, I WANT The RAW image.. all the data...

so according to the Nikon manual: = 25.3 MB per image, uncompressed full data

OK, so now let's plug that in...

25.3MB per image frame x 30 fps x 60 x 60 x 24 = 274,332,960 MB ... so only 274 TB per day....



How much do you think a camera like that will cost? How much do you think the network and storage units will cost to support that?

update: executive summary for those math challenged: It can, just will cost you.
 
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I'd like one of these;

Sony Alpha a7R IV Mirrorless Digital Camera (Body Only)

But then I'd want all of their lenses and I'd need some serious additional hard drive space for the freaking huge files that beast would create! ;)

"14-bit, high-resolution 61MP stills with a native sensitivity range from ISO 100-32000, which can be further expanded to ISO 50-102400."

Think of the files. Those enormous frigging files!
 
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