FYI - LeChange / Dahua 8x 8MP/4K UHD IP PoE cameras + 16 channel port PoE NVR 2/3TB HDD $899 7/13/18

[looney2ns]

Just an FYI: Testing the 5mp fisheye cam with BI. When the stream is enabled, 25fps, and 61xx bit rate, it clobbers my I5-6500 BI cpu.
Normally it runs at a happy 10-15% with 9 cams, add in the 5mp, and it's at 80-95 percent. Point is, the lite model NVR's are anemic I suspect for that load.

 

[mfish123]

I just bought the kit. I'll keep everyone posted with a review once I install and test.

One thing I noticed is that (if the spec sheet on Fry's site is accurate) is accurate is that the CMOS sensor is 1/2.5"

So I don't think the ones in this kit are these since they use a 1/2" CMOS: https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/productDetail/21517

Unfortunatley, this link just took me to the home page: https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/allProducts/5237/5257?tab=5267

It is what it is but does anyone know with a high degree of certainty which equivalent Dahau cams are in this kit from Fry's?

 

[MixManSC]

It will be hard to tell with 100% certainty until you have the actual hardware on hand. Please do post an update. I'd be curious to see the NVR in more detail. I have posted in a Lorex thread on here regarding the exact steps needed to cross-flash the Lorex NVR to the official Dahua firmware and it works perfect and I'm pretty the same method would work on the one you get as well (possibly with different firmware though).

 

[mat200]

Hi,

The NVR from LeChange Fry's deal, appears to be ( from what I can determine from the pictures and spec sheet ) I suspect they are NVR42xx models, not really 100% certain - a lot of this is due to the price point and guessing.

1) NVR4108-8P-4KS2 for the $479.99 deal w/4x 8MP "4K" cameras ( smaller NVR features show only 1 HDD supported )
2) NVR4208-8P-4KS2 for the $799.99 deal w/8x 8MP "4K" cameras ( can hold 2 HDDs as per features listed )
3) NVR4216-16P-4KS2 for the $899.99 deal w/8x 8MP "4K" cameras ( can hold 2 HDDs as per features listed )

The cameras appears to be a IPC-HFW4831E-SE
from what I can tell from the specs. ( not DWDR, but has WDR so looks like the newer model IPC-HFW4831E-SE ) https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/productDetail/14361

Again, this is based on my very limited knowledge and looking at various images and specs from the Dahua International models and the specs included on the Fry's page from LeChange.

Thanks @mfish123 for keeping an eye out on this deal, looking forward to your review.

BTW - I would pick up a couple of Dahua OEM starlights from Andy to augment this kit to cover your most critical night time field of views. ( and I would probably also get a nice IPC-HDW42xx Dahua OEM 2MP starlight mini-dome wedge or the 2 lens version to cover your front door )

Matt, these kind of cams are very cheap, https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/allProducts/5237/5257?tab=5267
I may think to bring them online, cheaper than those hacked models.

Hi Andy,

Consumers / purchasers of security cameras in the USA are very limited in their knowledge and have grand expectations of what security cameras can do.

Many Americans who purchase security cameras are looking to just drop the money and stick up something easy and think they've done a good job.

Cloud dependent security cameras are extremely popular - even though they have MANY technical problems.

I have done what I can to help share better information and knowledge to those considering security cameras and buying them on the forums I am active on.

For business:
1) I think you should give up on customers who want things too cheap - like those buying zmodo / funlux products.
2) Go with quality - Apple does well as a company as they have a quality reputation. They do well. Better to be known for quality - you can get good customers.
3) Consumers will want an affordable kit - however, if too affordable you can not add critical functionality and consumers will complain. Sometimes they have NO IDEA of how to really evaluate a product and complain that they can not read a license plate at night 50M away... just crazy disconnect with reality ( too much Hollywood movies )
4) Dahua clearly looks to disrupt the distribution channel in the USA with prices like this kit and their LeChange Brand. You will need to put pressure on good wholesale prices from Dahua so you can compete. Same with US brands and vendors, they will also need to put pressure on Dahua and Hikvision to give them good prices to compete.

If you are considering a cheaper kit / cameras - try to get a good enough quality one so your reputation will be for selling good products.

 

[mat200]

I just bought the kit. I'll keep everyone posted with a review once I install and test.

One thing I noticed is that (if the spec sheet on Fry's site is accurate) is accurate is that the CMOS sensor is 1/2.5"

So I don't think the ones in this kit are these since they use a 1/2" CMOS: https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/productDetail/21517

Unfortunatley, this link just took me to the home page: https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/allProducts/5237/5257?tab=5267

It is what it is but does anyone know with a high degree of certainty which equivalent Dahau cams are in this kit from Fry's?

Hi @mfish123

I certainly doubt they are the IPC-HFW1831E as that model appears NOT to include IVS features.
( besides the CMOS sensor size )

On the Fry's page - the camera is listed as having the following
IVS: Tripwire, Intrusion, Object Abandoned/Missing
Advanced Intelligent Functions: Face Detection
Compression: H.265+/H.265/H.264+/H.264
Streaming Capability: 3 Streams

Thus appears more like the IPC-HFW4831E-SE model
https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/productDetail/14361

 

[MixManSC]

I'm still curious on those 16ch NVR's. There is just not enough specs listed to conclusively say 100% if they are 4216 or 5216 models. I'm curious because even though Dahua could realistically use 4216 NVR's for the Lorex branded ones (and they even remove enough features in the custom Lorex firmware to just about make them lite models) they are 5216's (Lorex ones include a 3TB WD Purple drive too so probably a good chance the Lechange ones will be WD Purple too). Will be interested in seeing for sure on that as well as if the NVR and the cameras has generic unbranded firmware or customized firmware. If they come with unbranded firmware the odds are even higher that one would be able to simply load the correct matching Dahua firmware right from the web interface or the config tool. That would be a huge bonus since the newest Dahua firmware has some nice new features like MP4 downloading. Either way - good to have another option for potentially getting US market hardware for cheap.

 

[Purduephotog]

I'm still curious on those 16ch NVR's. There is just not enough specs listed to conclusively say 100% if they are 4216 or 5216 models. I'm curious because even though Dahua could realistically use 4216 NVR's for the Lorex branded ones (and they even remove enough features in the custom Lorex firmware to just about make them lite models) they are 5216's (Lorex ones include a 3TB WD Purple drive too so probably a good chance the Lechange ones will be WD Purple too). Will be interested in seeing for sure on that as well as if the NVR and the cameras has generic unbranded firmware or customized firmware. If they come with unbranded firmware the odds are even higher that one would be able to simply load the correct matching Dahua firmware right from the web interface or the config tool. That would be a huge bonus since the newest Dahua firmware has some nice new features like MP4 downloading. Either way - good to have another option for potentially getting US market hardware for cheap.

In general, unless active measures are taken, security is the last thing people think about when making an off-brand product. Think back to when FLIR released their hackable camera- it wasn't until WAY LATE in the game did they decide to start putting out certificates and signed firmware.

Even then that can be defeated (as was demonstrated).

I wish I had a fry's near me. If anyone wants to send me a camera I'll be glad to rip it apart and binwalk it

 

[MixManSC]

I agree but I think on "kit" usage and where cameras will only ever be connected directly to an NVR (never exposed directly to any network), then the security of the camera itself (not physical, just in its firmware/software) is really irrelevant. In that scenario it is all about the NVR. That being said, if the OEM is putting on custom firmware which intentionally has features removed that the camera is otherwise capable of, that annoys me. That is a plus on crossflashing the official Dahua firmware on the Lorex branded NVR's since Lorex does remove features from their firmware. I've not had luck on the Lorex cameras though, even using a direct TTL serial connection. They have some funky changes to the flash partitioning which does not match up with the official Dahua firmware that I'm not skilled enough to overcome. I've tried some of the partition and even erase commands but at best I can only get it stuck in a reboot loop or brick it forcing a full reload of the original firmware. Luckily I have not managed to erase or corrupt the boot loader u-boot environment. lol

 

[mfish123]

I'm pretty "tecchy" but very limited on time. I'll get myself up to speed as far as VPN for securely accessing the NVR over the internet, closing ports, etc. I do own a modern higher-end ASUS router.

I only plan on using the cameras in conjunction with the NVR. So if I was to mess with firmware it would probably only be the NVR firmware.

Is it safe to assume that if I put the Dahau OEM firmware on the NVR it would still work with the cameras if I leave the proprietary lechange firmware on the cameras?

Is the appeal of flashing dahau OEM firmware to get better security, more frequent updates and possibly more functionality?

 

[MixManSC]

Pretty much yes. I know on the Lorex branded ones there was only basic motion detection in the NVR firmware. With the latest Dahua firmware you get everything... Of course the cameras have to support the same features as well. I can go the the people counting setup on the NVR but if I select a camera that does not support that it pops a message up that the camera does not support that function.

Also to add - on the Lorex ones, the only way to crossflash is to use a null-modem serial cable. On these Lechange ones, I guess someone will have to see if the firmware that comes on it is customized or not and if it will just take the Dahua firmware right in the web UI or with the config tool. If not then you would need to follow my instructions in the Lorex thread.

This is to the actual post with the instructions in the Lorex thread. Lorex
Keep in mind, that MIGHT not be needed on the Lechange NVR's. We will not know until someone gets one and tried loading the Dahua firmware. Also dont worry about trying. If it does not work it will not hurt it (it rejects it and then reboots), just wait for it to reset.

Edit to add - attached is an example. This is on a Lorex branded NVR with the Dahua firmware. It gives pretty much every option possible. This particular camera (IPC-HDBW4231F-AS) DOES support face detection but it does NOT support face recognition. When I click on the face recognition it pops up an error window on the NVR.

 

[mat200]

..
Is it safe to assume that if I put the Dahau OEM firmware on the NVR it would still work with the cameras if I leave the proprietary lechange firmware on the cameras?
..

Hi mfish123,

I think the LeChange firmware will basically be the Dahua OEM firmware which has been reskinned w/the LeChange branding - so I don't think you'll need to reflash the kit.

You can share some screen shots here and compare to what others have.

 

[mfish123]

Just received in the mail. It was packaged nicely. Depending on free time / weather I'm going to try to have it installed by this weekend. My old system was BNC cables so I have the lovely task of running ethernet cable over the next several days. Should go quicker than the first time as I know exactly where to run the wires and have holes cut in internal attic walls. Fortunately I have a knee wall that i can walk in while crouching that runs the length of the house with easy access.

Here are external pics. Not sure if these give us any clues on the hardware but wanted to share. Once I boot up the NVR I'll take some screen shots and give more feedback.

 

[MixManSC]

Well that is definitely appears to be either an NVR4216-16P-4KS2 or an NVR5216-16P-4KS2. Would need to a see a good photo of the board inside but even that might not be conclusive. I know 100% what a 5216-16P board looks like but I have not seen a photo of the board inside a 4216-16P. They might actually look the same for all I know. Also seeing what version the firmware is with some screenshots of that might help too. But - if they stripped features out then it will still be hard to be certain short of getting a null-modem serial cable and connecting to its serial port on the back and poking around that way.

 

[mat200]

Well that is definitely appears to be either an NVR4216-16P-4KS2 or an NVR5216-16P-4KS2. Would need to a see a good photo of the board inside but even that might not be conclusive. I know 100% what a 5216-16P board looks like but I have not seen a photo of the board inside a 4216-16P. They might actually look the same for all I know. Also seeing what version the firmware is with some screenshots of that might help too. But - if they stripped features out then it will still be hard to be certain short of getting a null-modem serial cable and connecting to its serial port on the back and poking around that way.

Hi @MixManSC

Is there a way to get to the command prompt w/o a null-modem serial cable?

 

[tangent]

Hi @MixManSC

Is there a way to get to the command prompt w/o a null-modem serial cable?

It's the easiest method. Other options would actually interfere with what I think your objectives are.

 

[MixManSC]

Not as far as I know. Duhua killed off telnet access on all devices last years after the security flaws were discovered. Only thing I might suggest would be a regular serial cable and a null modem adapter. That way you still have a regular serial cable to potentially use for other things. Null modem just reverses the tx and rx pins so technically since the serial port on the NVR (my 5216 anyways) is on a little cable you could unplug the serial port and carefully remove the pins from the connector and swap them around to make it standard serial (would not need a null-modem adapter) port.

 

[mfish123]

So maybe I should start a new thread for this review but here are my initial impressions. As a point of reference, I'm upgrading from this 5mp HD-TVI (BNC cables)
system: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BFMRNB7/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Fortunately I have power cables in all 8 camera locations so it will be easy to add IR illuminators if I want, and not be limited by the POE power limitations (if I was to split it). Also, might add a microphone and use an RCA to BNC adapter so good that I have that old wiring installed in that regard.

Resolution is better, colors are more true to life, dynamic range is handled better and night vision is vastly improved.

I'm nitpicky so here is what I'm tweaking / not thrilled with (yet):

- Not sure if the WDR is true WDR or DWDR - When I enable it doesn't seem to give the type of improvement I've seen when watching various demo videos of what it's supposed to do. Colors get funky (like enabling fake HDR on a modern television on SDR content if anyone knows that that looks like - neon/ saturated colors). Also, it introduces noise on the highest brightness portions of the image where it's trying to make the highlights not get blown out / clipped (e.g. sunlight reflecting off a car). Depending on the light variations that each camera is taking in I'm finding some do better with HLC and others do better with WDR. Maybe, the firmware is only giving DWDR but the hardware is capable of true WDR - that would be motivation to try flashing to OEM Dahau firmware.
- Maybe I watch too many movies (LOL!) but I was thinking with 4K I'd be able to read letters / make out fine details of faces from greater distances. Maybe I have unrealistic expectations and I realize with the wide field of view on surveillance cameras that eats up a lot of pixels. NVR is hooked up to a TCL P607 (solid performing 55" 4K HDR TV). All cameras are set to 4K and so is the HDMI output resolution
- As far as encoding - I played with H.264H and H.265. I set quality to max (value of 6) and maxed out the bit rate, resolution, and available frame rate for the given resolution, on the main stream and sub streams. Couldn't really see a difference when switching between H.264H and H.265 on the main stream. What is interesting is that, (and this is when viewing directly on the TV from the NVR), during the night with IR on, if I set sub stream 2 to 720p I can see more shadow details (let's more light in) vs. setting substream 2 to 1080p.
- Maybe I'm missing it, but it would be nice if I could have the image settings profiles for each camera switch based on day (color) or night (B/W with IR) modes. You can store up to 3 image settings profiles per camera but I don't see anywhere to link the profiles to day (color) and night (B/W with IR).
- Firmware is from 11/2017 and no update available

Here are some remote view smart phone screen shots and pics of the TV from my phone camera - I know that's not the best. Still trying to figure out how to take screen shots directly with the NVR. Still need more time to get into email alerts, motion settings, IVS.

 

[Yellowtang]

So maybe I should start a new thread for this review but here are my initial impressions. As a point of reference, I'm upgrading from this 5mp HD-TVI (BNC cables)
system: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BFMRNB7/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Fortunately I have power cables in all 8 camera locations so it will be easy to add IR illuminators if I want, and not be limited by the POE power limitations (if I was to split it). Also, might add a microphone and use an RCA to BNC adapter so good that I have that old wiring installed in that regard.

Resolution is better, colors are more true to life, dynamic range is handled better and night vision is vastly improved.

I'm nitpicky so here is what I'm tweaking / not thrilled with (yet):

- Not sure if the WDR is true WDR or DWDR - When I enable it doesn't seem to give the type of improvement I've seen when watching various demo videos of what it's supposed to do. Colors get funky (like enabling fake HDR on a modern television on SDR content if anyone knows that that looks like - neon/ saturated colors). Also, it introduces noise on the highest brightness portions of the image where it's trying to make the highlights not get blown out / clipped (e.g. sunlight reflecting off a car). Depending on the light variations that each camera is taking in I'm finding some do better with HLC and others do better with WDR. Maybe, the firmware is only giving DWDR but the hardware is capable of true WDR - that would be motivation to try flashing to OEM Dahau firmware.
- Maybe I watch too many movies (LOL!) but I was thinking with 4K I'd be able to read letters / make out fine details of faces from greater distances. Maybe I have unrealistic expectations and I realize with the wide field of view on surveillance cameras that eats up a lot of pixels. NVR is hooked up to a TCL P607 (solid performing 55" 4K HDR TV). All cameras are set to 4K and so is the HDMI output resolution
- As far as encoding - I played with H.264H and H.265. I set quality to max (value of 6) and maxed out the bit rate, resolution, and available frame rate for the given resolution, on the main stream and sub streams. Couldn't really see a difference when switching between H.264H and H.265 on the main stream. What is interesting is that, (and this is when viewing directly on the TV from the NVR), during the night with IR on, if I set sub stream 2 to 720p I can see more shadow details (let's more light in) vs. setting substream 2 to 1080p.
- Maybe I'm missing it, but it would be nice if I could have the image settings profiles for each camera switch based on day (color) or night (B/W with IR) modes. You can store up to 3 image settings profiles per camera but I don't see anywhere to link the profiles to day (color) and night (B/W with IR).
- Firmware is from 11/2017 and no update available

Here are some remote view smart phone screen shots and pics of the TV from my phone camera - I know that's not the best. Still trying to figure out how to take screen shots directly with the NVR. Still need more time to get into email alerts, motion settings, IVS.

Thank you for the review. I purchased the 4 cameras package. Hopefully, I can get it install this weekend.

 

[mat200]

@mfish123

Thanks!

Definitely play with it a bit and then start a new thread once you've gotten a better idea of how to assess it.

THE major challenge I have had, even knowing that Hollywood has distorted what security cameras can do, is that HOW completely off my expectations from reality were.

My expectations were so seriously off that it has really taken some time to learn from others here and watching actual video captures from youtube and other locations.

So remember that you'll probably need to evaluate the kit differently. Best way would be to have another camera to compare side by side - ideally one you were thinking of getting.

The cameras in the kit were spec'ed as WDR, older model was spec'ed as DWDR - so you should be getting WDR.

Remember - for low light you can augment the kit with some good Dahua OEM 2MP starlight cameras or if you need better "zoom" some of the IPC-HxW5xxx cameras. ( HDW = turret, HFW = bullet )

 

[mat200]

@mfish123

Looks good - try to mount a camera at face level by the front door - I like the Dahua OEM 2MP mini-dome wedge camera for that.