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Just Bought Lorex 4KHDIP822NV 4K NVR + 4x Camera Kit... Is it a mistake?

dg6464

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Hi Everyone,

First time poster, new to Security and Camera systems... but have a strong background in IT. I was trying to make my life simple to start out with a "kit", but am wondering if I will regret that decision.

I just pulled the trigger on a Lorex "Summer Sale" NVR + 4x 4K Camera deal, totalling about $1440 CAD (including taxes, shipped, 15% off total right now), which is about $1100 USD.

The camera system goal is general home monitoring of front-yard, front-door, backyard, back door and general security/deterrence for my family while I am travelling for work... with the eventual expansion into an overall Smart-home security system with Samsung Smartthings, Smart Video Door Bells, Door Locks and such. Combination of daytime and nighttime ideally.

I was looking for best bang for my buck with PoE 4K Camera's with a simple NVR setup, but am open to using BlueIris with a PC build if I can get in for a similar cost with better function on the NVR + Camera's (I've got some decent PC parts (Core i7 Spare) and an 8TB NAS already sitting around).

This kit is the following:

Lorex 4KHDIP822NV 4K Ultra HD IP NVR System, 8 Channel with 4 Outdoor 4K IP 8MP Metal Cameras, 2 Audio 4x Optical Zoom Cameras, 250FT Night Vision

The Camera's are:

2x LNB8973BW 4K Motorized Varifocal HD IP Bullet Security Camera

2x
LNE8950ABW 4K HD IP Dome Security Camera with Audio

The NVR is:

1x NR9082 8 channel, 4K ultra HD network video recorder

These seem to be the best camera's available on the Lorex site, so I thought that they would be decent (these seeming to be a Dahua derivative with IVS disabled according to the forum). They seem to have awesome reviews (albeit possibly faked reviews). I've also read that I should be able to expand using Dahua Camera's in the future anyway and that they can be used with BlueIris if I don't end up liking the NVR.


After looking at a couple of posts, I think I do get the gist on the forum that BlueIris (with a decent CPU) and legitimate Dahua/Hikvision models will work best... but just can't find any good spots in Canada that have either a solid kit price, or individual camera's for a decent cost.

This being my first foray, I would like to get the best bang for my buck... but haven't dove into IVS or any of the more advanced stuff that might benefit me (and I might miss if I keep this package when it arrives).

Any guidance on whether you believe I could get 4x Dahua equivalent (or better) camera's with a small PoE switch and BlueIris for a similar cost (in Canada) would be greatly appreciated.

Not sure if it's worth bothering @EMPIRETECANDY for Dahua pricing.... thought I would get overall impressions first on the deal I got (if any).

If so... which of the following will be equivalent, or better models to the Lorex ones?

Dahua OEM IPC-HDW48xx (Model TBD in place of LNE8950ABW Bullet Cam)?
or
Dahua OEM IPC-HDW58xx (HFW5830E-Z in place of LNB8973BW)?

Apologies if this is the wrong spot for this post - I thought it might be a good first intro.

I also do realize I probably shouldn't have pulled the trigger until asking... but there's a 60 day return policy and I wasn't sure when the deal would expire on the Lorex site.

Thanks!

Best Regards,

dg6464
 
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mat200

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..

This kit is the following:

Lorex 4KHDIP822NV 4K Ultra HD IP NVR System, 8 Channel with 4 Outdoor 4K IP 8MP Metal Cameras, 2 Audio 4x Optical Zoom Cameras, 250FT Night Vision

The Camera's are:

2x LNB8973BW 4K Motorized Varifocal HD IP Bullet Security Camera

2x
LNE8950ABW 4K HD IP Dome Security Camera with Audio

The NVR is:

1x NR9082 8 channel, 4K ultra HD network video recorder
..

I also do realize I probably shouldn't have pulled the trigger until asking... but there's a 60 day return policy and I wasn't sure when the deal would expire on the Lorex site.
..
Hi Dg6464,

A lot depends on how much you paid for those NVRs and cameras.

If you paid ( lorex list pricing - 15% ) - then definitely chat w/Andy and see if he can get you a better deal on a kit which included the IVS functionality.

The Dahua OEM equivelents:
NVR - NVR5208-8P-4KS2 ( ps also ask Andy for the pricing on the NVR5216-16P-4KS2 * )
Varifocal Bullet - IPC-HFW58xx
fixed lens Turret - IPC-HDW48xx

Remember Dahua OEM products will have IVS features, whereas the Lorex ones they've removed those features.

(*) on the NVR most of us are pickup with the model w/o the fancier front panel. If you like the front panel Andy may have a similar model available.
 
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dg6464

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Thanks @mat200 and @EMPIRETECANDY

Looks like the Lorex were quick to ship the stuff... I already got a shipping notice from them :facepalm:.
I paid ~$1100 USD ($1400 CAD), which includes taxes, shipping (free), 400ft of cabling and the default 2 year warranty.

Andy recommended the following from Dahua (thanks for the quick PM reply Andy)... which in the end would be similarly costed to the Lorex solution @ about $1300 USD (a $200 USD delta and doesn't include the 400ft of cabling that comes with the Lorex stuff, or likely shipping (didn't ask yet on shipping to Canada costs, order potential duties at the border)):

Dahua bullet IPC-HFW5831E-ZE
Dahua turret IPC-HDW5831R-ZE
Dahua NVR NVR4208-8P-4KS2 (I didn't yet check on the 16-channel equivalent)

Note: some you have to use search function on the Dahua Website - the URL's in Google don't work properly (page not found).

So a couple of questions on the above come to mind:

  1. Are the recommendations above in fact equivalent... or better than the Lorex camera's I've ordered for the use case and future-proofing my overall investment?
  2. If I send the Lorex back... would it be worth the $200-600 USD delta for the Dahua equivalents in this case (adding shipping and bulk Cat5e/6 cabling costs)?
  3. I've seen a lot of "STARLIGHT" comments on the forum regarding being ideal for nighttime recording... which neither of those camera's listed seems to have included - is that something I should be looking at (it just seems to be mentioned every single time someone compares the Dahua camera's to Lorex)?
  4. How is the Dahua NVR hardware and software versus the Lorex?
  5. Does anyone know if the underlying hardware/CPU's are the same between 8/16-channel... and between the Lorex and Dahua (beyond just the bezel/front-panel... that doesn't matter, it will be sitting in my IT closet in the basement)?
  6. Would I be able to just flash the Lorex NVR and Lorex camera's with Dahua firmware if they are the same variants of hardware underneath?
  7. How about the app for iPhone / Android / remote viewing capabilities? Are either experiences better than the other?
  8. Can I use bypass the NVR as just use it as simple PoE switch and pass-through the traffic to a BlueIris PC build that's connected directly to my LAN if I eventually want to migrate to BlueIris (both NVR's are about the cost of a decent 8/16-port 1Gbps PoE switch anyway...)?
  9. Are there any particular IVS features that would be useful in my slightly more general use case? (Apologies - not being in set-up phase... I am just not familiar with what IVS functions might be useful for me that I would be missing out on with Lorex).
  10. Would I be able to use the Lorex camera's with BlueIris, should the NVR not work out well? If so... can I bypass the NVR and use it just for PoE function? Does this require flashing Dahua firmware onto the camera's or NVR?

Sorry if these are very newb questions... I figured I would ask them here first to see if anyone knows off the top of their head - otherwise I will have to do some deep digging.

Thanks in advance!

Best Regards,

dg6464
 

mat200

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So a couple of questions on the above come to mind:

  1. Are the recommendations above in fact equivalent... or better than the Lorex camera's I've ordered for the use case and future-proofing my overall investment?
  2. If I send the Lorex back... would it be worth the $200-600 USD delta for the Dahua equivalents in this case (adding shipping and bulk Cat5e/6 cabling costs)?
  3. I've seen a lot of "STARLIGHT" comments on the forum regarding being ideal for nighttime recording... which neither of those camera's listed seems to have included - is that something I should be looking at (it just seems to be mentioned every single time someone compares the Dahua camera's to Lorex)?
  4. How is the Dahua NVR hardware and software versus the Lorex?
  5. Does anyone know if the underlying hardware/CPU's are the same between 8/16-channel... and between the Lorex and Dahua (beyond just the bezel/front-panel... that doesn't matter, it will be sitting in my IT closet in the basement)?
  6. Would I be able to just flash the Lorex NVR and Lorex camera's with Dahua firmware if they are the same variants of hardware underneath?
  7. How about the app for iPhone / Android / remote viewing capabilities? Are either experiences better than the other?
  8. Can I use bypass the NVR as just use it as simple PoE switch and pass-through the traffic to a BlueIris PC build that's connected directly to my LAN if I eventually want to migrate to BlueIris (both NVR's are about the cost of a decent 8/16-port 1Gbps PoE switch anyway...)?
  9. Are there any particular IVS features that would be useful in my slightly more general use case? (Apologies - not being in set-up phase... I am just not familiar with what IVS functions might be useful for me that I would be missing out on with Lorex).
  10. Would I be able to use the Lorex camera's with BlueIris, should the NVR not work out well? If so... can I bypass the NVR and use it just for PoE function? Does this require flashing Dahua firmware onto the camera's or NVR?

Sorry if these are very newb questions... I figured I would ask them here first to see if anyone knows off the top of their head - otherwise I will have to do some deep digging.

Thanks in advance!

Best Regards,

dg6464
Hi dg6464,

Q1) Are the recommendations above in fact equivalent...
A1) Do take a closer look at the numerous Lorex threads here on IPCAMTALK.

mixmansc was able to flash the Dahua NVR5216-16-4KS2 software on the Lorex NVR he picked up and thought it was the same hardware. He was unable to get the Dahua OEM firmware to work on his cameras.

As I noted before I do believe the model mapping is correct - but again without actually finding a way to directly compare the cameras it is hard to tell.

Q2) If I send the Lorex back... would it be worth the $200-600 USD delta for the Dahua equivalents in this case (adding shipping and bulk Cat5e/6 cabling costs)?
A2) I would recommend using quality bulk cable either way.. as often what is included in the kits are CCA "garbage" cables.

Please search the threads for more discussion on this topic.

Q3) I've seen a lot of "STARLIGHT" comments on the forum regarding being ideal for nighttime recording... which neither of those camera's listed seems to have included - is that something I should be looking at (it just seems to be mentioned every single time someone compares the Dahua camera's to Lorex)?
A3) Please do look closer at the Cliff notes in the wiki as well as the "Starlight" threads and reviews. You can augment that kit by adding Dahua OEM 2MP starlight cameras to it. That maybe a good option to consider.

Q4) How is the Dahua NVR hardware and software versus the Lorex?
A4) Please do look for the Lorex threads. Please do look closer at the IVS features - that appears to be the major difference.

Q5) Does anyone know if the underlying hardware/CPU's are the same between 8/16-channel... and between the Lorex and Dahua (beyond just the bezel/front-panel... that doesn't matter, it will be sitting in my IT closet in the basement)?
A5) Please search for the Lorex Thead where mixmanSC described the NVR kit he got and how he updated the firmware.

Q6) Would I be able to just flash the Lorex NVR and Lorex camera's with Dahua firmware if they are the same variants of hardware underneath?
A6) .. you can probably guess the answer on this one...

... Please read the cliff notes, and the numerous thread here. A lot of this has been covered and discussed in many places.
 

shrike0064

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A really bad idea as they do not honor their 1 year warranty. Period.
My recorder reboots itself randomly and their customer support told me it was first my 1Kw truesine UPS, then told me it was the power cord. When that proved wrong they then told me I had to get the warranty from the company I bought it from. Contacted that company and they too have been ignored. This has gone on for 3 months.
Truly atrocious customer service.
 

mat200

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A really bad idea as they do not honor their 1 year warranty. Period.
My recorder reboots itself randomly and their customer support told me it was first my 1Kw truesine UPS, then told me it was the power cord. When that proved wrong they then told me I had to get the warranty from the company I bought it from. Contacted that company and they too have been ignored. This has gone on for 3 months.
Truly atrocious customer service.
HI @shrike0064

The Dahua OEM NVR I have was set by default to reboot periodically. As some of the Lorex NVRs are Dahua OEM I would expect them to be designed similarly.

Question - did you check the logs of the NVR?
 

shrike0064

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Yes. I didn't find a setting anywhere for that.
Sometimes the reboot is about 5 min. But then sometimes it takes up to 20 min before coming back up.
The reboot is not on any schedule. It will reboot randomly. That was the first thing I looked for, then I thought maybe it reboots if connection is lost or data corrupt from a camera because occasionally I have to reconnect one or more.
But no, I was told that it doesn't reboot for that either. One tech told me that the power supply is known to do that. But the next person told me it was the power cord.
 

mat200

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Yes. I didn't find a setting anywhere for that.
Sometimes the reboot is about 5 min. But then sometimes it takes up to 20 min before coming back up.
The reboot is not on any schedule. It will reboot randomly. That was the first thing I looked for, then I thought maybe it reboots if connection is lost or data corrupt from a camera because occasionally I have to reconnect one or more.
But no, I was told that it doesn't reboot for that either. One tech told me that the power supply is known to do that. But the next person told me it was the power cord.
Hi @shrike0064

Did you have a screen attached to the NVR? - when I first noticed the reboots ( scheduled by default, surprised me the first few times as it was iirc at 2AM and would beep ) I had a USB storage unit attached to update the firmware ( I run my NVR isolated ) - the NVR would pause for user input asking what to do as the USB storage was attached. Once I removed the USB thumb drive it rebooted quicker.

Hmm.. wonder what is going on then with that NVR.

"..occasionally I have to reconnect one or more." ( cameras )
Are all the cameras connected to the POE ports? Or manually added?

Seems like the techs suspect a power related issue for the reboots.

I'd push for an RMA somehow and see if you can get a replacement NVR. Perhaps something faulty on the memory on the board? Maybe corrupt firmware? Buggy firmware? ( try to update the firmware to test that theory )

Next option I would try is the popular Blue Iris on a windows PC + external POE switch - and setup the NVR from Lorex as a redundant video recorder. ( in this case if the Lorex NVR does not reboot - then something probably related with the POE ports / cameras connected to the POE ports )
 

shrike0064

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Tried. Contacted the company that I bought the $3000 system from and Lorex isn't responding to them either.
Going to go with BlueIris once my Ryzen 2700x is built. Just waiting on parts. I did use the i7 before but 6 cameras maxed out that processor.
I used BlueIris with some Chinese cameras but when using motion detect only 9 cameras would max out the Ryzen's 16 threads. But the Chinese cameras were not 100% ONVIF compatible which is why I spent the money for this system.
So I am hoping with these cameras I can run motion sense only and use the camera's internal motion detect to trigger the record.
I prefer BlueIris screen because it shows what triggered the recording while this Lorex does not. BlueIris then posts a picture of the event and if interested I can view it. Lorex does not. Really disappointed with Lorex.
 

mat200

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Tried. Contacted the company that I bought the $3000 system from and Lorex isn't responding to them either.
Going to go with BlueIris once my Ryzen 2700x is built. Just waiting on parts. I did use the i7 before but 6 cameras maxed out that processor.
I used BlueIris with some Chinese cameras but when using motion detect only 9 cameras would max out the Ryzen's 16 threads. But the Chinese cameras were not 100% ONVIF compatible which is why I spent the money for this system.
So I am hoping with these cameras I can run motion sense only and use the camera's internal motion detect to trigger the record.
I prefer BlueIris screen because it shows what triggered the recording while this Lorex does not. BlueIris then posts a picture of the event and if interested I can view it. Lorex does not. Really disappointed with Lorex.
HI @shrike0064

You probably want to pop over to the Blue Iris section w/re to the Ryzen 2700x box - iirc Blue Iris takes advantage of the i5/i7 instruction set and thus AMD CPUs are not as efficient.

I hope you did not pay list price for the Lorex kit. Their Dahua OEM products are basically the Dahua OEM products w/o the IVS features. Depending on the deal you can get some nice cameras, and basically an NVR thrown in for not much more than the cameras by themselves normally would go for from an Ebay seller. ( hint - do not pay full list price for cameras, nvrs, or kits from Lorex - their "normal" prices are crazy )
 

fenderman

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Tried. Contacted the company that I bought the $3000 system from and Lorex isn't responding to them either.
Going to go with BlueIris once my Ryzen 2700x is built. Just waiting on parts. I did use the i7 before but 6 cameras maxed out that processor.
I used BlueIris with some Chinese cameras but when using motion detect only 9 cameras would max out the Ryzen's 16 threads. But the Chinese cameras were not 100% ONVIF compatible which is why I spent the money for this system.
So I am hoping with these cameras I can run motion sense only and use the camera's internal motion detect to trigger the record.
I prefer BlueIris screen because it shows what triggered the recording while this Lorex does not. BlueIris then posts a picture of the event and if interested I can view it. Lorex does not. Really disappointed with Lorex.
i7 is a meaningless term. Six cameras is a meaningless term blue iris does not care about the number of cameras rather the total resolution and fps. You likely did not setup blue iris correctly. intel is a superior choice. You need to READ the wiki on optimizing blue iris and hardware for blue iris.
 

shrike0064

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i7 is a meaningless term. Six cameras is a meaningless term blue iris does not care about the number of cameras rather the total resolution and fps. You likely did not setup blue iris correctly. intel is a superior choice. You need to READ the wiki on optimizing blue iris and hardware for blue iris.
Actually, I did as I can read. The Ryzen out performed the i7 I was using, and with motion detect only, 9 cameras were max before the video would stutter. HOWEVER I'm going to try again and as was mentioned, topic drift. I'll see what I can find in the BlueIris thread.
Later.
 

fenderman

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Actually, I did as I can read. The Ryzen out performed the i7 I was using, and with motion detect only, 9 cameras were max before the video would stutter. HOWEVER I'm going to try again and as was mentioned, topic drift. I'll see what I can find in the BlueIris thread.
Later.
well thats because you used an old "i7" vs a new ryzen, we still dont know what secret model i7 you used or what resolutions and fps. AMD is a poor choice for blue iris. You made a mistake with the NVR, dont make it again with the PC.
 
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