Looking for a camera security system.

Discussion in 'NVR's, DVR's & Computers' started by nuraman00, Aug 6, 2017.

Share This Page

  1. aristobrat

    aristobrat Known around here

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2016
    Messages:
    1,280
    Likes Received:
    866
    The 23.63W came from my PoE switch -- it shows the current load (via a mgmt interface).

    IMG_0288.jpg

    My APC UPS also shows the total load, but since I have a bunch of other devices plugged into it (in addition to the PoE switch), I would have to unplug everything except the PoE switch to see the load.
     
  2. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Getting the hang of it

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2017
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    9
    I see. The NVR model I will get has the PoE integrated into it (5464-16P-4KS2). So I won't have a separate switch:

    NVR5416/5432/5464(-16P)-4KS2

    But I think I can expect a similar power consumption to what you posted.

    Did you think that your APC was too big? When I saw the weight was 60lbs a few days ago, I thought it was too big for home use. Too big and heavy, and likely immovable.

    What else do you have plugged in? What range of power consumption do you see, during a day with the cameras recording?
     
  3. aristobrat

    aristobrat Known around here

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2016
    Messages:
    1,280
    Likes Received:
    866
    I'd expect your PoE power consumption to be similar as well (keeping in mind that it goes up a bit at night when the IR lights kick on).

    I don't have the 60lb APC ... I have the 20-something lb unit that you first linked to. It looks similar to the CyberPower one you linked to. The 60lb one you linked to later was different than the first one you linked to.

    As for what else I have plugged into mine, it's mostly network stuff. There's another switch (non-PoE), Internet modem, router, a little Synology NAS, and a VPN-appliance that my housemate uses to connect back to his work (he works from home). Oh, and two WiFi access points.

    I actually have two of these UPSs. One is for the networking gear above, and a second one is for my Blue Iris PC (which is my NVR). This pic is from when I was building everything out, so please excuse the mess. The UPS on the left shows the load of all of the networking stuff, and the UPS on the right shows the load of the BI PC.

    IMG_0293.JPG
     
  4. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Getting the hang of it

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2017
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    9
    Thanks for the post and pictures.

    I see my mis-understanding about the 60 lb model. I had linked to one from refurbUPS, but that one was a 60lb. model.

    This was the APC one I linked to prior, which is the 20 something lb. model, and the one you have:

    https://www.amazon.com/APC-Battery-...qid=1527189953&sr=8-3&keywords=apc+1500va+ups


    After reading and comparing the runtimes of both the APC and CyperPower, the CyberPower seems a little better for runtime, especially with a low load. For example, at 50 watts, it estimates 175 minutes.

    CP1500AVRLCD - Intelligent LCD UPS Series - Product Details, Specs, Downloads | CyberPower

    Compared to APC's 2 hours, 14 minutes:

    Country Selection Page

    Yes, these are just estimates, and not necessarily real-world conditions, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt.

    So I'll go with the CyperPower.
     
  5. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Getting the hang of it

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2017
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    9
    While there are a lot of positive reviews for CyperPower, there's also too many reviews of failures within a few months, or reviews of it catching fire.

    I don't see any reviews for APC catching fire.

    I'll go with APC, the BX1500M.
     
  6. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Getting the hang of it

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2017
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    9
  7. alastairstevenson

    alastairstevenson Known around here

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Messages:
    9,210
    Likes Received:
    2,618
    Location:
    Scotland
    With only 4 ethernet ports - what would you hope to achieve?

    A VLAN is a mechanism for logical grouping of network ports and provision for controlling whether traffic can flow between them.
    Generally there would be quite a few network ports and associated groupings involved, such as a set of cameras and an NVR, WiFi access points, PCs and laptops and gaming devices, etc.
     
  8. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Getting the hang of it

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2017
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    9
    Thanks.

    Right now, I use one network port for my desktop; one for my Tivo; and one for my Ooma VoIP. Just to give you an idea of what my current setup is.

    What should I do, if the Arris cable modem and router that I have isn't good enough? Get another one, with a lot more ports?

    My NVR will have 16 PoE switches built in. I'd be getting 8 cameras, connected to the NVR. If I wanted to set up a VPN, how many ports would I need on the router for the NVR and cameras?

    I thought that since the NVR would have PoE switches built in, I wouldn't need ports on the router.
     
  9. alastairstevenson

    alastairstevenson Known around here

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Messages:
    9,210
    Likes Received:
    2,618
    Location:
    Scotland
    That is true.
    But which ports do you want to gather into a VLAN? The NVR POE ports don't feature for that - they are not on the LAN.
     
  10. Barboots

    Barboots Getting the hang of it

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2018
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    32
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    One, either for:
    - the NVR, or;
    - whatever you use as a VPN between the NVR and the rest of the local network if no such feature is available within your router.

    Cheers, Steve
     
  11. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Getting the hang of it

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2017
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    9
    I haven't purchased my TV yet that I'll keep upstairs, for camera monitoring.

    I noticed this weekend though that there's a 2018 version of the model I wanted to purchase.

    Considering that I only plan to use this TV for camera monitoring (no TV service; movies; or video games), should I go with the 2017 version that I'd planned to buy, for $800, or the 2018 version for $1100?

    Sony XBR49X900E vs XBR49X900F.


    I've read about the differences. Some with the HDR processor, some with the placement of ports.

    Sony X900F vs X900E Review - What are their differences ?
     
  12. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Getting the hang of it

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2017
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    9
    Bump, thoughts on which year TV I should buy, the 2017 or the 2018?
     
  13. SkyLake

    SkyLake Pulling my weight

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2016
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    104
    I would go for the 2017. But even that would be overkill..

    Any tv would be fine. You only need hdmi.
     
  14. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Getting the hang of it

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2017
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    9
    Thanks. I decided on this model sometime last year after reading that it was good in particular when things are played at slower frame rates. And yes, the model is a little overkill, but still not too much, IMO.
     
  15. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Getting the hang of it

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2017
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    9

    Back to the discussion of what I should plug into my APC uninterrupted power supply:

    Here's what I'm thinking:

    Should connect:

    * NVR 5416-16P-4KS2: ~ 17 - 23 Watts
    * Asus AC2900 Router: ??? Watts
    * TP-Link 7620 Modem: ??? Watts

    Nice to have:

    * Ooma Telo VoIP device: ??? Watts
    * Uniden landline phone: ??? Watts
    * Tivo Premiere XL4 DVR: ~ 23 - 26 Watts

    Nice, but not necessary:

    * Plasma TV: 436 Watts when in use, 0.2 Watts in standby. This would be nice, but if I were to use it during a power outage, it would use 1/2 the load by itself. I can wait until the power's back on.

    * Desktop PC: I used this power supply calculator:

    Power Supply Calculator - PSU Calculator | OuterVision

    It estimated my PC would use about 305 Watts of power. That's too much. If anything, I should have a dedicated APC BX1500M for it.


    So right now I'm thinking I should connect the NVR, router, and modem. I don't think the Ooma Telo and landline phone consume much power, so probably those too.

    Then, for the Tivo, see what the total is for the other devices without it. If it's low enough, then add it. Otherwise, don't, or wait until I get a 2nd APC.

    Thoughts on this? Any comments or suggestions?
     
  16. aristobrat

    aristobrat Known around here

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2016
    Messages:
    1,280
    Likes Received:
    866
    Each situation is different. For me, keeping the network up and running (one of the folks in the house works from home) is the #1 priority, so I have a UPS for just the essential networking stuff (modem, router, separate WiFi access points, etc). I have a second UPS for the computer running Blue Iris and the PoE network switch, which powers the cameras. My TiVo is in a different room where I have it plugged into a third (and smaller 650) UPS.

    If I were in your situation, that's exactly how I would do it.
     
    mat200 likes this.
  17. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Getting the hang of it

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2017
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    9
    Thanks for the response, and for sharing your situation.

    What's the model of your 650 UPS?

    Looking at the pic you posted earlier, it shows the UPS with the Blue Iris PC, and the PoE network switch, combining for 48 Watts.

    My desktop PC is different from your Blue Iris PC. But when I used the PSU calculator I linked to above, it estimated that my desktop would use 270 ~ 305 Watts.

    Power Supply Calculator - PSU Calculator | OuterVision

    I entered what components were in my PC, and that's the number it gave.

    Do you think that estimate is right, or could it be closer ~ 25 Watts like yours?

    Also, do you have a VPN set up on your router? I recently set one up on mine.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
  18. aristobrat

    aristobrat Known around here

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2016
    Messages:
    1,280
    Likes Received:
    866
    I do have VPN set up. Good job on getting yours setup, that is the safest way to connect back into your network.

    For that PSU calculator, I think that was probably "maximum power consumption" and that your regular day-to-day usage will be lower.

    I use this UPS for my TiVo: 650VA APC UPS If I were buying now, I'd consider getting the newer, less-expensive 600VA model. I haven't gone through the reviews of that model though...

    I need to update those pictures you looked at as I've reallocated the load. The picture with the UPS showing 48W was just my PC... I hadn't moved the PoE network switch over to that UPS yet. So the "networking" UPS should go down about 20-25W, and the "computer" UPS should go up by that amount.
     
  19. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Getting the hang of it

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2017
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    9

    Thanks for the link. Wow, the 600VA model looks like a good deal. I'll keep that in mind.

    Thanks for your input about the PSU calculator.

    Since you also have a Tivo, have you tried to access your recordings when on a remote network, perhaps by connecting to the VPN first?

    I read about this last week, but haven't tried it yet. Both links refer to the same procedure, from different sources.

    Access your Tivo’s hidden webserver! Download, strip and rip. Part One.

    What is the official method for transferring to PC?

    I was hoping to download recordings to a PC when I'm on a remote network.
     
  20. aristobrat

    aristobrat Known around here

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2016
    Messages:
    1,280
    Likes Received:
    866
    Yes and no. I've accessed recordings remotely using the iOS TiVo app on both my iPhone/iPad (I do this a lot while waiting in the exam room for my vet, ... they're great, just really slow), but I've never done it remotely with a PC. It looks like the "kmttg" Java app might be a more automated way of doing what's listed in your first link above. If you haven't found it already, check out the TiVo Community forum over at TiVoCommunity Forum. Lots of good info, just takes some searching to find it sometimes. :)
     
  21. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Getting the hang of it

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2017
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    9
    Yeah, I've been posting on those forums for years.

    Thanks for sharing your experience.

    I have kmttg too, I just haven't tried it when on a remote PC. I guess the next time I have time and will be remote, I'll have to be prepared to try a few ways, from the links above.

    I don't have an iOS device so I can't do it that way.
     
    aristobrat likes this.
  22. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Getting the hang of it

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2017
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    9
    So I had placed an order for all remaining parts (hard drive, APC UPS, etc.) on July 29th. At the time, it said the APC was backordered on BH Photo Video, but it would be available in 7 - 14 days.

    I've been checking every day.

    I checked today, and it said October 3rd.

    I called and asked if it was possible for a refund. The representative also checked the date, and said that was wrong, it's really September 23rd.

    I also see it's backordered on Amazon.

    It says it's in stock right now on New Egg, and on eBay's New Egg Store. I'd have to pay tax though. It can arrive in a week.

    I guess I need to think about it for a little bit, about whether I should cancel the BH Photo Video order, or not. If I get it in a week, I still probably can't make the appointment with the installer until the end of the month, because they're usually booked for 2 - 3 weeks in advance.
     
    aristobrat likes this.
  23. aristobrat

    aristobrat Known around here

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2016
    Messages:
    1,280
    Likes Received:
    866
    Is B&H not shipping the other parts (hard drive, etc) until the APC is in stock? If you had everything else and were just missing the APC, I'd go ahead with the install (and install the APC when it finally arrives).
     
  24. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Getting the hang of it

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2017
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    9
    B&H shipped everything that was available, right away.

    Thanks for the suggestion. I kind of want everything pre-set up as much as possible. So I have less things to finish setting up, even if it's just the APC UPS, after the install. I'm hoping after the install, I'll have minimal work left, whether it's some configuration, or updating something.

    Almost every day for the last several months, I've spent time preparing for this whole system. Whether it was researching parts, or watching videos, or setting up the VPN (and asking questions), etc. This whole thread started last year, and my first steps were to meet with installers and get estimates, and learn what camera systems were available. It's been a process of learning and such, since then.

    Right now, I just got the TV that I wanted to use for monitoring, installed on Monday. While I intend to mostly only use it for monitoring, and not actually watch much TV on it, I've still been going through settings how I like them, and trying to improve on motion blur.

    Or, I learned that just because an app is available on Android, it doesn't mean it's available on Android TV. I didn't realize they were two separate things. It seems silly that I have to cast the NBC Sports app from my phone to the new TV, because it's not available directly on Android TV.

    About the only time I really plan to use the upstairs TV to watch TV is if my parents or other guests are over, and they want to watch something. So they can watch downstairs, while I'll watch upstairs.

    Because I don't plan to use the upstairs to watch much TV, I haven't considered extending my Tivo to it by getting a Tivo Mini Vox or something. But I still want to at least see what the TV can really do, during these first few days.

    Anything can change in the future though, and if I find myself needing to use the upstairs TV to watch TV, then I'll at least know what settings or configuration I need.

    Plus I want to do some tests once I get the APC and see how much power my desktop uses, so if I want to get another one, I'll have a better idea of what to get.

    I've also just realized this weekend that if I were to get another device that needed a hardwired Ethernet connection, such as a video game console, then I would need to get an Ethernet switch because my router would run out of ports. So the switch would be one more device that would require power (in addition to the router, modem, NVR, Tivo, and Ooma), and because only 5 outlets on the APC actually back up power, I'd need to get a 2nd one and re-arrange some things.

    A video game console isn't a priority right now, but I could always get one partially for the Blu Ray player, partially for the games.
     
  25. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Getting the hang of it

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2017
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    9
    The thought also crossed my mind yesterday, that what if I hate the motion blur on the new TV so much, that I want to return it? I'd have to have the handyman remove it from the wall mount; pay for return shipping; look for a new TV and make sure I can get a live demo of sports to test motion blur (some stores have certain models display those pre-set images of nature, which aren't the same conditions as sports); buy it; and have the handyman install it.

    Hopefully it's just a matter of me finding the right setting, but it was something that crossed my mind yesterday, as I was watching some things and adjusting the settings. So if I went down this path, it would be another delay before scheduling the appointment with the installer.
     
  26. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Getting the hang of it

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2017
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    9
    The price of the APC BX1500M went up by $5 on BH Photo Video, Amazon.com, and NewEgg today.

    I wonder why.

    Usually the prices of things decrease over time. Unless they are discontinued products that were great for its time.
     
  27. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Getting the hang of it

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2017
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    9
    I called APC to ask them why it was so hard to find the APC BX1500M all of a sudden.

    After doing some research, they said that model is being phased out.

    The new model is BR1500MS.

    That's in stock on B&H Photo Video and Amazon, but $193. If the already ordered BX1500M never gets in stock again, then I'll get this. I guess meanwhile I'll just wait and hope it actually gets in stock when it says it will.
     
    aristobrat likes this.
  28. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Getting the hang of it

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2017
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    9
    I randomly checked Costco.com today, and I found out they have a similar APC model, the BN1500M2, for $150 pre-tax! However, in looking at the specs of the new BR1500MS, and the BN1500M2, I don't see a difference, except for runtime.

    The runtime of the BN1500M2 looks a little worse than the BR1500MS. But the runtime of the BN1500M2 does look similar to the one I ordered from B&H Photo Video, the BX1500M.

    I guess I'll call APC tomorrow and ask what the difference between the BN1500M2 and the BR1500MS is, and why the runtimes are a little different.

    If they really aren't that different, including runtime, I might just get the one from Costco, since it's available.
     
  29. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Getting the hang of it

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2017
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    9
    I called APC and asked about the difference between the BR1500MS, and the BN1500M2.

    The BR1500MS has a pure sine wave, and the BN1500M2 (in stock at Costco.com) has a simulated sine wave.

    Both also have 6 battery backed outlets, as compared to the BX1500M that is on backorder, which has 5 such outlets.

    After doing more reading, a pure sine wave is cleaner. Some devices also require it (such as certain computer monitors or other devices).

    I'm not sure if any of the devices I have will really need the pure sine wave.

    But, I guess I'll go with it.

    Question: How should I connect the Ethernet RJ45 dataline to the UPS? OUT from the cable modem and IN to the UPS, and then OUT from the UPS and into the router?
     
  30. aristobrat

    aristobrat Known around here

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2016
    Messages:
    1,280
    Likes Received:
    866
    That’s how I would do it.