Need advice building or buying a new IP NVR security system

[Chasecam]

Hi Guys,

Right now i have the Arlo Q's that are just worthless. I want to do a IP NVR overhaul with at least 8 cameras all for outside use. I have looked at Amcrest, Lorex, and Q-See but they all seem to be a cheap off the shelf Costco brands to me.

I don't want to spend a crazy amount of coin but I would like 4K or as close to 4K camera system that records full time.

I am seeing names like Axis, Hikvision, Dahua and Avertx and what to know what to stay away from or what do you suggest i should buy that is not a average 799 off the shelf system.

I am open to buying a NVR and cameras separate if that is the best route.

Thank you for your help.

 

[fenderman]

Hi Guys,

Right now i have the Arlo Q's that are just worthless. I want to do a IP NVR overhaul with at least 8 cameras all for outside use. I have looked at Amcrest, Lorex, and Q-See but they all seem to be a cheap off the shelf Costco brands to me.

I don't want to spend a crazy amount of coin but I would like 4K or as close to 4K camera system that records full time.

I am seeing names like Axis, Hikvision, Dahua and Avertx and what to know what to stay away from or what do you suggest i should buy that is not a average 799 off the shelf system.

I am open to buying a NVR and cameras separate if that is the best route.

Thank you for your help.

start reading this forum...you will find the 4k does not perform well at night for the most part...see dahua starlight threads..
axis is overpriced.
you want to match the cams to the nvr..or go with a pc based vms like milestone, blue iris or digital watchdog...

 

[mat200]

Hi Guys,

Right now i have the Arlo Q's that are just worthless. I want to do a IP NVR overhaul with at least 8 cameras all for outside use. I have looked at Amcrest, Lorex, and Q-See but they all seem to be a cheap off the shelf Costco brands to me.

I don't want to spend a crazy amount of coin but I would like 4K or as close to 4K camera system that records full time.

I am seeing names like Axis, Hikvision, Dahua and Avertx and what to know what to stay away from or what do you suggest i should buy that is not a average 799 off the shelf system.

I am open to buying a NVR and cameras separate if that is the best route.

Thank you for your help.

Welcome Chasecam,

It's easy to get swamped with information here, so I wanted to share some notes with you

Please check out @giomania 's notes:
Dahua Starlight Varifocal Turret (IPC-HDW5231R-Z)

I have also made which are a summary of a lot of the reading I've been doing here,:
Looking for some advice and direction!

Note Amcrest, Lorex, Q-see are using Dahua as their OEM and some of their products will basically be the that you can purchase branded as Dahua or unlabeled.

Have fun joining us here.

 

[Chasecam]

Thank you guys, this is a good start for. I am shocked to hear the 4K is not that great at night. What is best choice for camera resolution?

 

[mat200]

Thank you guys, this is a good start for. I am shocked to hear the 4K is not that great at night. What is best choice for camera resolution?

Hi Chase,

There's a lot more than just resolution to a camera. There's a good reason why there are security camera and systems professionals - as once you start looking at the various options, variables, tuning parameters, variety in buildings, use cases, .. it gets complex.

Which is more important for you daytime or night time / low light?

 

[Chasecam]

Hi Chase,

There's a lot more than just resolution to a camera. There's a good reason why there are security camera and systems professionals - as once you start looking at the various options, variables, tuning parameters, variety in buildings, use cases, .. it gets complex.

Which is more important for you daytime or night time / low light?

LOL both.... The Arlo pros clarity is pretty good but I have seen the HD's are better. The lag and battery life is killing me with Arlo. I would be happy with Arlo HD quality for cameras. I assume those are 1080???

 

[mat200]

LOL both.... The Arlo pros clarity is pretty good but I have seen the HD's are better. The lag and battery life is killing me with Arlo. I would be happy with Arlo HD quality for cameras. I assume those are 1080???

Hi Chasecam,

You're going to have to decide which is MORE important to you.

Just about ANY PoE camera system will surpass the video quality of the Arlo / Arlo Pro system. Please do not spend more money on Arlos and the like.

You've got lots of options which will be better, including all of the branded IP PoE 1080p+ kits you've listed taking a look at from Costco ( Lorex, Q-see, ... I don't recall seeing an Amcrest kit from Costco - )

The Q-see and Lorex 4K cameras are Dahua OEM - and will beat the pants off of the Arlo Pro in both daytime and nighttime images. Many people here also like Hikvision OEM products.

For the best nighttime performing camera series which many of us find we can afford there is the Dahua Starlight series - in particular the varifocal starlight turret at about $170 per camera ( power adapter is not included ).

Please do check out the notes I have referred you to, and see what myself and others have been sharing during our journey of learning here. Especially look at the 4K cameras compared to the starlight link.

There is a lot of great knowledge being shared by others here who would like to see you get a better system that meets your needs. A lot of us have spent considerable time building a customized set of individual components for our needs. If you want to go the customized route definitely start reading.

Here btw are samples which Orly shared from his Lorex 4K kit - you'll notice that they solidly are far better than what you're seeing with the Arlos. The 4K Qsee cameras in the Costco kits should imho provide similar results.
Question about locally remote NVR functionality

If you're in a hurry, order a starlight varifocal turret and pickup one of those kits from Costco and compare the cameras with a bench test - also compare them to the Arlo and see what works best for your setup.

If you have more time, I suggest picking up a dahua starlight varifocal turret and ac power adapter and play around with it while reading more about cameras here. With the varifocal camera you can start testing possible locations of camera positions and determine how many cameras you may want and the views you may want to cover. ( you can also use your current Arlos to help decide this - so you do not have to pickup the starlight - just a really nice product )

 

[Chasecam]

Mat200, thank you for all the info, you just answered a handful of questions for me. I am impressed of the clarity from the cameras that Orly has posted. I am glad to to hear that a Costco brand IP systems will have better clarity than the Arlo. I have taken a liking to Hikvision products so I am looking at some camera reviews now. Thank you for pointing out the Dahua Starlight as I was recently on there web page checking them out as well. I would prefer to build my own system and spend a little more buying better quality stuff.

I have one technical question for you regarding wiring the system. If run one Ethernet cord to my attic from my router to a 6 port switch , could I plug all the cameras into that one switch? Or do I need to run each camera to the port on the NVR?

Thank you for all the help.

 

[mat200]

Mat200, thank you for all the info, you just answered a handful of questions for me. I am impressed of the clarity from the cameras that Orly has posted. I am glad to to hear that a Costco brand IP systems will have better clarity than the Arlo. I have taken a liking to Hikvision products so I am looking at some camera reviews now. Thank you for pointing out the Dahua Starlight as I was recently on there web page checking them out as well. I would prefer to build my own system and spend a little more buying better quality stuff.

I have one technical question for you regarding wiring the system. If run one Ethernet cord to my attic from my router to a 6 port switch , could I plug all the cameras into that one switch? Or do I need to run each camera to the port on the NVR?

Thank you for all the help.

Hi Chasecam,

There's many ways to connect things up.

For reliability purposes I would try not to minimize the amount of cable you use, but to minimize the amount of cheaper network equipment.

The most reliable way is to have each PoE camera connected directly by one "line" to one PoE port on an NVR -OR- a PoE switch. The more switches and other equipment you place in between the more chances of failure.

( a line for example maybe 1x patch cable - 1x RJ45 keystone jack - 1x cat5e/cat6 cable run - 1x patch panel port - 1x patch cable
ideally you want to keep the number of connections low to keep it more reliable )

Also I have heard that Hikvision has now started to use the low light imaging chip which was used in the dahua starlight cameras - so you should have a hikvision low light version available.

 

[Chasecam]

Hi Chasecam,

There's many ways to connect things up.

For reliability purposes I would try not to minimize the amount of cable you use, but to minimize the amount of cheaper network equipment.

The most reliable way is to have each PoE camera connected directly by one "line" to one PoE port on an NVR -OR- a PoE switch. The more switches and other equipment you place in between the more chances of failure.

( a line for example maybe 1x patch cable - 1x RJ45 keystone jack - 1x cat5e/cat6 cable run - 1x patch panel port - 1x patch cable
ideally you want to keep the number of connections low to keep it more reliable )

Also I have heard that Hikvision has now started to use the low light imaging chip which was used in the dahua starlight cameras - so you should have a hikvision low light version available.

That makes perfect sense. I just watched some really good reviews on the Starlight's so thank you for having me look at those. Out of curiosity what would you suggest as a 8 cam system of your liking?

 

[mat200]

That makes perfect sense. I just watched some really good reviews on the Starlight's so thank you for having me look at those. Out of curiosity what would you suggest as a 8 cam system of your liking?

Hi Chase,

I had a lot of night time risk/threat issues when I picked up my system - so I went with 6 Dahua starlight cameras and used one 3MP amcrest bullet I had previously purchased plus a 16 PoE port NVR.
It got a bit pricey - but was worth it thanks to the delinquents which threatened the neighborhood.

Thankfully that threat is reduced due to a drug den running tenants being evicted now.

As I have been learning more I have researched threats and daytime is a significant threat period when homes are vacant of occupants.

Thus I am liking the idea of a mix of 4K and starlight cameras.

I would like to install the 4K Lorex kit for $800 and add 2 varifocal starlight cameras to that for the folks to cover their home. They do not have much of a threat issue so they are not willing to have me install it for them - even if I buy it. Total cost of the cameras and NVR would be about $1200+ tax - a significant amount less than what I spent on my system. Of course I did get a better NVR in the deal, and great night time camera views.

If I had a nice larger property and home I would certainly be getting a 16 port NVR and more than 8 cameras, and probably spend significantly more to set it up - the folks live in a modest home on a modest property - so 8 cameras would give good coverage for them.

 

[Chasecam]

Hi Chase,

I had a lot of night time risk/threat issues when I picked up my system - so I went with 6 Dahua starlight cameras and used one 3MP amcrest bullet I had previously purchased plus a 16 PoE port NVR.
It got a bit pricey - but was worth it thanks to the delinquents which threatened the neighborhood.

Thankfully that threat is reduced due to a drug den running tenants being evicted now.

As I have been learning more I have researched threats and daytime is a significant threat period when homes are vacant of occupants.

Thus I am liking the idea of a mix of 4K and starlight cameras.

I would like to install the 4K Lorex kit for $800 and add 2 varifocal starlight cameras to that for the folks to cover their home. They do not have much of a threat issue so they are not willing to have me install it for them - even if I buy it. Total cost of the cameras and NVR would be about $1200+ tax - a significant amount less than what I spent on my system. Of course I did get a better NVR in the deal, and great night time camera views.

If I had a nice larger property and home I would certainly be getting a 16 port NVR and more than 8 cameras, and probably spend significantly more to set it up - the folks live in a modest home on a modest property - so 8 cameras would give good coverage for them.

Thank you, I appreciate the insight and I think this is my last question, what are some good website to by stuff from?

 

[mat200]

Thank you, I appreciate the insight and I think this is my last question, what are some good website to by stuff from?

Hi Chase,

Please look for Andy @EMPIRETECANDY here on this forum if you would like to get international Dahua OEM equipment. A number of us have purchased from him, and note China is currently in the middle of a vacation week. His has 2 stores iirc on aliexpress - you don't have to buy via aliexpress you can use pay pal. If you let him know you are a member of this forum he will give you a slight discount. Aliexpress iirc is BEC and Empire - search for Aliexpress BEC or Empire and Dahua and you should be able to find it.

iirc I have some of this information in my notes I referred to above. Definitely take a look at those as well as the notes on SD.

 

[Chasecam]

Right now I am prepping to see if it is even possible for me to get the cameras to the locations I want. I can easily get to 6 locations running everything back to a POE switch and junction back in the middle of my house. Here is where I am having a issue. There is no way for me to get from the upstairs attic to the downstairs front room, unless I use the existing RJ45 plug that is currently builtin with the home. My question is, can I plug two cameras into that single RJ45 using a second POE switch that will run back to the junction box into the main POE switch?

6 cameras and the NVR will run to main POE switch, the other two cameras would run from the cameras, to a second switch, up the existing RJ45, into the main POE switch junction box, to the router?

 

[mat200]

..My question is, can I plug two cameras into that single RJ45 using a second POE switch that will run back to the junction box into the main POE switch?

6 cameras and the NVR will run to main POE switch, the other two cameras would run from the cameras, to a second switch, up the existing RJ45, into the main POE switch junction box, to the router?

Hi Chasecam,

It is possible to make various different network configurations. You can run one cable from the NVR PoE switch to another device ( like a PoE switch ) which connects to multiple cameras.

There's a few discussions here on doing that, for example a poe splitter...
PoE Splitter

Ideally I like to reduce the number of pieces of equipment / devices so that I have a more reliable setup, however sometimes you must do it.

 

[Chasecam]

I did a search but a lot of the posts are super old how do the Ubiquiti cameras compared to Hikvsion or Dahua systems.

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[mat200]

I did a search but a lot of the posts are super old how do the Ubiquiti cameras compared to Hikvsion or Dahua systems.

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Hi Chasecam,

If you can I would recommend doing direct runs from your PoE cameras to the NVR PoE Port or PoE Switch.
If you plan to keep your home / building for awhile you will be rewarded with a more reliable setup.

As you mentioned it will be very difficult to run another wire to the basement ( which is why I recommend N+1+ wires when installing new wires ), you can typically use another PoE switch to connect multiple cameras to one upstream line ( from the switch ). This is the beauty of IP standards, lots of configuration options.

 

[Chasecam]

Hi Chasecam,

If you can I would recommend doing direct runs from your PoE cameras to the NVR PoE Port or PoE Switch.
If you plan to keep your home / building for awhile you will be rewarded with a more reliable setup.

As you mentioned it will be very difficult to run another wire to the basement ( which is why I recommend N+1+ wires when installing new wires ), you can typically use another PoE switch to connect multiple cameras to one upstream line ( from the switch ). This is the beauty of IP standards, lots of configuration options.

Thanks Mat200, I would prefer running wires that route as well. I might have found a solution to run that last camera on its own. I am looking in Blue Iris now being that my computer has a few TB of storage that I am not using and all the requirements to run it with multiple cameras. I came across the Unifi cameras but reading mixed reviews. They look nice and I like the specs but I have read so many great reviews about the Dahau Starlights I pretty sure I am going that route. You have been a big help.

 

[Chasecam]

Are the Dahua Starlights you speak of a turret style camera? Will I have any issue mounting these on the sides of my house sideways?

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[mat200]

Are the Dahua Starlights you speak of a turret style camera? Will I have any issue mounting these on the sides of my house sideways?

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Hi Chasecam,

They have a number of versions.

The turret models work well. Do check out the links in post #3 - you can see pictures of it and how people have mounted it.