New here, hoping to soak it all in----getting saturated!

[MrSurly]

I am coming to the conclusion that I want IP PoE cameras because I'm sick of my WiFi Yi cams; their lagging terrible UI, their cost of cloud services. I currently have eleven Yi cams (yah, I know, right?).
Here's what I have learned, what I've done and what I need to decide...
I currently do not have a desktop PC. I have laptops WIN 7 and a new Win 10pro.
I have an iMac 27" as my home desktop.
I need to decide on what system I want to use. My understanding is that my choices are
A. Blue Iris running on a PC
B. An NVR from Hik or Dahua? (is that even correct)
C. Some package thing from Costco etc?

I expect to run probably sixteen ip cams once I get it all done. Mostly outdoor, including a few PTZ. I currently have decent cable internet (120~150mbps) AC4000 router, a 4/8 PoE switch, two PoE APs, a 2000sf house (one story), a separate 30x50 shop (fifty foot away).
I need LOTS of info. I HAVE been reading the Cliff Notes and the WIKI. Great info there. Despite the wealth of info in those, I have more questions.
1.) I know that this site is Blue Iris-centric. Despite that, i need to know: are there competing programs?
2.) Is there any way to run Blue Iris on an iMac?
3.) are cloud services (storage) available for BI systems?
4.) are the Yi cameras in any way usable in the BI world?
5.) How many reliable camera brands are there besides Hik and Dahua?
6.) Is it possible (Sourcing Taiwan, Vietnam, etc) to assemble a BI system (cams/SSD/Switches) withOUT buying Chinese products?
7.) A large concern for me is having the system be able to self-start after power failure (regardless any UPS time frame).
This can be difficult with a PC based setup; any ideas for an unattended system would be appreciated.
Thanks for reading.
That's enough for right now, I'll have more later

(hoping this post works...I 'lost' the first one)

 

[samplenhold]

Wow, a lot in your first post.

Welcome to the forum.

While I do not know anything about YI cameras, I can give you some info on everything else.

You are correct in your A,B, C comment.
1. There is other software solutions. Some use surveillance software on their NAS. I actually started out doing that on my Qnap NAS. But BI turned out to be much better. There are other stand alone but are very expensive from what I have read here.
2. No. But a used enterprise WIN10 PC can be had for a few hundred dollars, as stated in the Cliff Notes.
3. Yes, but why would you want to do that? It is a bandwidth hog.
4. Don't know. But you could download BI trial version to your WIN10 laptop and see if they will. Are the cameras good enough quality to bother?
5. There are few others that are made outside of China, but I know nothing about them.
6. You could probably do that, but why bother? I am partial to Dahua. That is all I have. I have 18 Dahua cameras that I bought from @EMPIRETECANDY and am very happy with every one of them.
7. My BI server is set to restart after power is restored. My NTP and BI apps restart automatically upon boot. In over 18 months it has never failed and we get power outages several times a year that kills my UPS's when I am not home. The whole reason I got into this surveillance camera hobby was that we are gone quite a bit and really needed to check up on the house.

Hope this helps.

 

[sebastiantombs]

3. Hard drives are relatively inexpensive today. Four or eight terabyte drives will store a week, or more, of video depending on the resolution and frame rates of the cameras. The iframe rate can also effect storage needs, but not a whole lot. Storing on the "cloud" just isn't practical. Terabytes of space usually come with a price tag. This all assumes recording 24/7 of course.
4. The cameras would need to be ONVIF compliant and have an RSTP port for streaming the video. Whether or not Yi has those is a good question. Why you would want to use them, given that you're complaining about them, seems a little strange. I'd leave them running and drop them out as I put in real video cameras.
5. Dahua and Hikvision seem to offer the best price/performance ratio. That's why they're so popular on this board. I have to give Dahua the edge because of the support that Andy, at EmpireTech, provides here in the forum and at the email/personal level. Just avoid, like the plague, Reolink, Foscam, SV3C, Ring, Nest, Hello, Arlo and all that other consumer grade stuff.
6. You'll be very hard pressed to find any equipment that is not sourced from the Far East, China, in one way or another. From just components, to boards, to complete products it all seems to come from there if you want decent performance and decent pricing.
7. As Samplenhold said, a PC for BI can be easily configured, in the BiOS, to reboot at power restore and to auto login. Running BI as a service insures it will restart with the boot. Mine works that way and hasn't failed, yet.

 

[mat200]

...
6.) Is it possible (Sourcing Taiwan, Vietnam, etc) to assemble a BI system (cams/SSD/Switches) withOUT buying Chinese products?
..

Welcome @MrSurly

Seems like all Global Supply chains lead to or are connected to PRC China.

I don't think there will be many cost effective options for most of us that do not have that connection.

Recommend picking up one of the Dahua Startlight+ 4MP varifocal cameras that SouthernYankee mentions and playing with it. Good camera, will work with good VMS products as it following IP rtsp standards.

 

[MrSurly]

Good stuff, here. Thanks for the prompt replies. For those wondering, the question about retaining the Yi cameras was prompted by the simple fact that their video resolution is decent, some of them are PTZ , they have TF cards and the fact that I happen to HAVE a dozen of them. They also have proven to be pretty durable, to be fair. I’ve had three of their ptzs outside under the eaves For a couple of years and they aren’t even outdoor cams. My biggest complaint about them is the UI, but there’s also the WiFI only problem. So, yeah, I will be canning them.

 

[gwminor48]

I started out with wifi cams too, they truly do suck. Welcome to the forum.

 

[SouthernYankee]

PTZ cameras sound like a good idea, but they must have auto track, or you will be sitting there moving them around.
=======================
My standard welcome to the forum message.

Read Study Plan before spending money
Cameras are for surveillance to get information for after the fact.

Please read the IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes and other items in the IP Cam Talk Wiki. (read on a real computer, not a phone). The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.

Quick start
1) If you do not have a wired monitored alarm system, get that first
2) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras if you need good low light cameras.
3) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
4) Do not use wifi cameras.
5) Do not use cloud storage
6) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
7) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
8) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
9) Do not use reolink, ring, nest, Arlo cameras (they are junk), no cloud cameras
10) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
11) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
12) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
13) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 7ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
14) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
15) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator V3
16) POE list PoE Switch Suggestion List
17) Camera Sensor size, bigger is general better Sensor Size Chart
18) Camera lens size, a bigger number give more range but less field of view. Which Security Camera Lens Size Should I Buy?


Cameras to look at
IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED . Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+) - 4MP starlight
.................... Dahua IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED review
IPC-T5442TM-AS ..... Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ - 4MP starlight+
IPC-B5442E-ZE ...... Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+
IPC-T2347G-LU ...... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera. (DS-2CD2347G1-LU)
IPC-HDW2231R-ZS .... Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal
IPC-HDW2231T-ZS-S2 . Review-OEM IPC-T2231T-ZS 2mp Varifocal Starlight Camera
IPC-HDW5231R-ZE .... Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
IPC-HFW4239T-ASE ... IPC-HFW4239T-ASE
IPCT-HDW5431RE-I ... Review - IP Cam Talk 4 MP IR Fixed Turret Network Camera
IPC-T5241H-AS-PV ... Review-OEM IPC-T5241H-AS-PV 2mp AI active deterrence cam
IPC-T3241-ZAS ...... Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal -- 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal
IPC-HFW2831T-ZS ... Review-Dahua IPC-HFW2831T-ZS 8MP WDR IR Bullet Network Camera -- 8MP Bullet 1/1.8” sensor variable focus.
DS-2CD2325FWD-I
N22AL12 ............ New Dahua N22AL12 Budget Cam w/Starlight -- low cost entry
IPC-T2347G-LU.......

Review-Loryta OEM 4MP IPC-T2347G-LU ColorVu Fixed Turret Network 4mm lens & Junction Box

OEM 4MP IPC-T2347G-LU ColorVu from EMPIRETECANDY 4mp ColorVu Network Camera I also have the matching junction box for this camera to check out. Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: link Andy's AliExpress store...

ipcamtalk.com

-- 4MP ColorVu
.................... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera.

Other dahua 4MP starlight

https://ipcamtalk.com/threads/dahua-4mp-starlight-lineup.42000/#post-388253

My preferred indoor cameras
DS-2CD2442FWD-IW
IPC-K35A

https://ipcamtalk.com/threads/review-dahua-ipc-k35a-3mp-cube-camera.37581/#post-373517

If interested in Blue Iris and other setup items see the following post

Newbie Starter Guide to IP Cam System – VPN setup – Computer Hardware – Blue Iris – Dahua Cameras

This is an intermediate / newbie guide for people just starting out looking for a surveillance setup. I know this setup might not be for everyone and there are many options. You can find a lot of this information in the Wiki: IP Cam Talk Wiki | IP Cam Talk A great place to start in the Wiki...

ipcamtalk.com

Before asking a question search the forum first...
The best way to search the forum is to use Google
In the google search window enter.. site:ipcamtalk.com ?????? ..where ?????? is the items/terms you are interested in.
Example site:ipcamtalk.com PALE MOON BROWSER

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Test do not guess

 

[djernie]

Welcome to the boards, Good luck on your build!

 

[MrSurly]

Thanks to all for the information...

I'm now diving into the Rabbit Hole, cannonball style, from the High board..... and ALL of you are on Lifeguard duty.
Wish me luck.
I have now ordered the following:

Lenovo M700 Tiny Comp i5-6400T 256SSD.................*EBAY
V7 MODEL: MPEGS24-1N 24PORT MANAGED POE SWITCH...*EBAY
ipc-t5442tm-as 2.8 (x2)..................................................................*EMPIRETECH
IPC-T2431T-AS 2.8 (x1) ..................................................................*EMPIRETECH
IPC-T2431T-AS 3.6 (x1)...................................................................*EMPIRETECH
PFB203W (x2) ................................................................................*EMPIRETECH

 

[djernie]

Good Luck! Post pics once set up.

 

[samplenhold]

Before you buy any more cams, get comfortable with what you have. You have bought all fixed lens cams and are fairly wide angle.

BEFORE you mount any of those cams, take a 2.8mm and a 3.6mm and put them on a test rig (as described in the Cliff Notes) and see if they give you the coverage that you want. Walk the area in both day and night. Can you get a good face shot? Realize that perps do not stop and look into the cam. They are always moving, especially their heads.

 

[MrSurly]

Good info; yes these are my starter cam picks for the reasons you mentioned.
I have a few different scenes where wide or zoomed or VF may work better. My idea is to try these in various spots to test them.
separately from these generic locations though, I’m plotting a concealed or at least less-obvious setup that I will incorporate into a mailbox enclosure that I will be building.
I don’t have any idea which cams to use for that yet but something smaller than a regular bullet.

 

[samplenhold]

but something smaller than a regular bullet

How you realize that the cams you bought are NOT bullets, they are turrets (or aka eyeball cams).

 

[MrSurly]

Confused by the question, actually... yes I know that I haven’t purchased any bullets.
It looks like most of the bullets are quite long and large. I looked into the 1831C as a possible solution but while it much shorter it is approximately 3” square.
In order to promote concealment I would love to find something smaller, something maybe 2” around and 4“ long. 2MP vari F large Aperture, good low light, no IR. I have no idea if that is realistic.

 

[samplenhold]

Well you stated to use a bullet in the mailbox enclosure and I thought why not just use a turret? So I thought you may be only thinking of bullets.

See the post below. @tibimakai put a T5542 in a birdhouse and it worked out great. See entry #44.

I need ideas, on where to install a camera at the entrance

I have a Jaguar XJ6 Vanden Plas Canary Red paint for example. I'm thinking, that it may work for the roof section. Some paints require primers first or else it will peel off. I believe automotive paint would be in this category. When you first said your daughter was going to paint this, I...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[MrSurly]

That’s a great thread and build. I’ll try to create a similar thread when I tackle the mailbox. My plan is to create something similar in the form of a base box that will be a spacer between the support post and the standard rural mailbox. In my neighborhood every house has their mailbox at the street on a post or in a brick or wood pedestal. My house is about 70’ from the street, so in order to have an eye on the street I’m running cat 6 u/g out to the box. I’ll put a small poe switch in the box and three cams, one for each direction of the street and a third looking at the house, all at mailbox level. Using turrets in the box would require it to be fairly tall whereas I’d prefer the cameras be around 2” in diameter. Small bullets, all VF most likely.

 

[samplenhold]

I’d prefer the cameras be around 2” in diameter. Small bullets, all VF most likely.

Good luck on that. I do not know of any cams that fit that description, but I do not know all cams. Maybe someone else here would have a recommendation. You should probably make a separate thread asking for tips on that, with a pic or two of the mail box and views.