Pandemic threat? Anyone else concerned?

[sebastiantombs]

Funny how European countries get cited, constantly, for their "success" in controlling the CCP Virus, but when cited for opening schools, successfully, are suddenly "not the same thing". What's good for the goose isn't good for the gander I guess.

 

[Arjun]

Its going to end up looking this, New World Order. World leaders spent too much time watching Star Wars Episodes 3-7.

 

[Arjun]

WTF, that's not a mask, that's bypassing the law! As of coming Monday, all of New York State will be in Phase 4. Now here's the irony, in anticipation of Wave 2, Phase 5 will result in closing down everything again

 

[juliand]

Is any one here buying up stocks of the company (ies) that are leading the pack in finding a vaccine? It's all about the money "always" , oh, and politics too. It's never about the people, who are just numbers with dollar bills.

 

[erkme73]

As a conservative libertarian at heart I struggle with government mandating anything. Especially clothing or things that I do with my body. But this presents a real dilemma. Mandating seatbelts (which I despise), or helmets to protect from falling objects or motorcycle accidents, arguably are not the same. If you choose not to wear a helmet, or not to wear a seatbelt, the only individual you're going to harm is yourself.

But, by refusing to wear a mask, you directly increase the risk of infecting others, or becoming sick yourself to the extent that you may have to go to the hospital and interact with healthcare workers, like my wife.

That means the decision not to wear a mask, which thereby infects more people, results in higher patient flow, sicker patients, and ultimately more exposure to the virus for my wife and her co-workers. In other words, your decision not to wear a mask causes harm to others. While that may be debated to a certain extent, if we accept it as a premise that a mask does reduce infection rates, then we must also accept that not wearing a mask increases those rates. Even if by a small amount, it has a huge impact on how much risk healthcare workers have to handle.

So despite my libertarian leanings, I do feel masks should be mandatory. Now, whether that is through a government mandate, or through private businesses that all coordinate and require masks for entry, I prefer the latter. But the reality is people are genuinely medically illiterate. And unfortunately their illiteracy means my wife is put at greater risk. As such, mandating masks it's something I reluctantly accept as a necessity.

The the problem is of course, now that everything has become polarized and politicized, wearing a mask, or not wearing a mask, is seen as a political statement. Wear a mask, and you're a liberal. Don't wear a mask and you're a conservative. Many of my neighbors up here in middle Tennessee, arguably a bubble of conservatives, steadfastly refuse to wear masks because they see it as a surrender to the left. I have to admit I to feel the pressure not to wear one, but after hearing what's going on in Florida where my wife is working as an ER doc, my perspective has completely changed. Unfortunately there is no easy way to convey the fear, the panic, the anxiety, and the PTSD-level stress that healthcare workers are going through down there. If there was, I think more people would abandon the politics and do whatever is necessary to minimize the risk.

 

[Sybertiger]

I would not doubt it if George Soros is funding the parties.....LOL

Florida residents organizing 'COVID-19 parties,' some led by gang members: sheriff

Local sheriffs plan to work with politicians to create ordinances to prevent such parties from happening.

www.foxnews.com

 

[juliand]

What the problem is "to me" is "how and why" this virus was born and how it spreads. So many half truths out there being thrown at us. Who is giving us the real info on this ? WHO - I think not..
Will this virus just run its course through everyone protected by some form of protection sooner or later anyway ? until a vaccine is out ... do we all hide until then, and become slaves to the powerful..
What about contamination in the water supply, food products, or through mosquito bites? Have these been positively ruled out ? I mean, we were told it started in a market.
Why is this certain strain of flu virus causing political division? Where are the facts and who decides which facts are real, politicians? <joke---
Politicians suck at telling the truth, most don't have an IQ over 80, and don't qualify themselves to evaluate this situation, never mind other situations, like the economy of free people.
I don't think a mask is going to beat this problem, its bigger than we realize, in more ways than one.

 

[bigredfish]

Something I find interesting looking at the data.

This sheet allows you to sort by the various column headers.
Coronavirus Update (Live): 14,280,589 Cases and 601,268 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Beyond total number of cases and total deaths, which the US leads
I tend to look at Deaths p/million population

Sort by Deaths per million population, and see if you see the trend I see. (think world regions and throw out all tiny countries)

Average for the world is 77
US, Western Europe, and The Americas are all very high.
Asia, with a dense population, and where it started, are all very low.


Why is that?

 

[tigerwillow1]

But, by refusing to wear a mask, you directly increase the risk of infecting others, or becoming sick yourself to the extent that you may have to go to the hospital and interact with healthcare workers, like my wife.

That means the decision not to wear a mask, which thereby infects more people, results in higher patient flow, sicker patients, and ultimately more exposure to the virus for my wife and her co-workers. In other words, your decision not to wear a mask causes harm to others. While that may be debated to a certain extent, if we accept it as a premise that a mask does reduce infection rates, then we must also accept that not wearing a mask increases those rates. Even if by a small amount, it has a huge impact on how much risk healthcare workers have to handle.

I'm not judging if this statement is correct or not. Just for discussion's sake, filter it through this "expert" statement:
...obesity is the number one risk factor for developing a severe case of COVID-19 in people under the age of 55 ....
(from Obesity & COVID-19: Can Your Weight Alone Put You at Higher Risk? )

Then in the quoted statement, change "refusing to wear a mask" with "refusing to eat a healthy diet", and so forth. Enforcing that might have a better outcome than enforcing masks. So why will this never happen? It would be political suicide! I'm convinced that all of the decision makers are using covid as a tool to promote their agenda, then seek out the experts who are useful fools for them. As an analogy, if the Supreme Court was doing its constitutional job correctly, most decisions would be 9-0 one way or the other. Similarily, if the scientists and politicians were working for the good of the population, there would be widespread agreement over what to do about covid, not the "pick your expert", pick your statistics" roulette we have now.

 

[erkme73]

I'm not judging if this statement is correct or not. Just for discussion's sake, filter it through this "expert" statement:
...obesity is the number one risk factor for developing a severe case of COVID-19 in people under the age of 55 ....
(from Obesity & COVID-19: Can Your Weight Alone Put You at Higher Risk? )

Then in the quoted statement, change "refusing to wear a mask" with "refusing to eat a healthy diet", and so forth. Enforcing that might have a better outcome than enforcing masks. So why will this never happen? It would be political suicide! I'm convinced that all of the decision makers are using covid as a tool to promote their agenda, then seek out the experts who are useful fools for them. As an analogy, if the Supreme Court was doing its constitutional job correctly, most decisions would be 9-0 one way or the other. Similarily, if the scientists and politicians were working for the good of the population, there would be widespread agreement over what to do about covid, not the "pick your expert", pick your statistics" roulette we have now.

I do not disagree with your logic. But I think we're talking about something that has an immediate effect on the spread of the virus, and therefore volume of patients entering the ER. No doubt that obesity is a huge factor in the severity of the illness, but likely does not have much to do with it spread. But even if it did, the idea of getting all the obese people to lose weight fast enough to have an impact on the current influx of patients, is a bit unrealistic. Wearing a mask I, on the other hand, has an immediate impact on the virus's ability to spread easily. it may not be foolproof, it may not be 100%, but anyone would be hard to argue that it has no effect.

 

[Arjun]

Ahem, who and what do we believe?

 

[mat200]

... you may have to go to the hospital and interact with healthcare workers, like my wife.
.. but after hearing what's going on in Florida where my wife is working as an ER doc, ...

Please thank your wife for her service, imho I think we should reward folks on the front lines of this pandemic as we have reward vets in past conflicts.
( help with student loans perhaps? .. perhaps other ways? )

 

[BobRegnar]

I take it those with smart-ass replies aren't struggling to feed their families or pay their rent or losing their small business to the lockdowns.

Your idea of freedom and liberty is far from mine. Hiding in your house at the direction of single-minded partisans is bullshit. There are more things going on in this country, for most people, than covid and blm riots.

The job of elected leaders is to persuade me of its worth (wearing a mask), not order me to do it.

I was at the VA recently for a blood draw. They're big on compliance. They gave me a mask to wear while I was there. Next is a touch screen kiosk to sign in. Next is a dozen health care folks in masks and gloves. But most have their masks pulled down so they can talk to each other and they need to be close because it's noisy. Their gloves are wiping their sweaty faces and touching everything including me. With bare hands they wash them first and after.

It's difficult to see how that policy is stopping anything from spreading.

Masks:

Wearing Masks – A Sledgehammer to Health - LewRockwell

They did it this time. A group of men and women executed a well thought out plan to drive the health of the human race into the toilet. Attacking the very basics of life, they have deprived people, en mass, of the life/health-giving rays of the sun (depressing vitamin D levels) with their...

bit.ly

A cluster randomised trial of cloth masks compared with medical masks in healthcare workers | BMJ Open

 

[Sybertiger]

That's why I continue to wear a respirator mask. It protects me not everyone else but I assume that if my mask prevents me from getting Covid then I'm protecting those I come on contact with.

 

[Arjun]

People give me the weird look if I'm not wearing a blue mask. I still think wearing an actual respirator sends a message that we're not out of the woods just yet.

That's why I continue to wear a respirator mask. It protects me not everyone else but I assume that if my mask prevents me from getting Covid then I'm protecting those I come on contact with.

 

[JNDATHP]

The job of elected leaders is to persuade me of its worth (wearing a mask), not order me to do it.

This ^^ I agree with wholeheartedly.

 

[Sybertiger]

People give me the weird look if I'm not wearing a blue mask. I still think wearing an actual respirator sends a message that we're not out of the woods just yet.


View attachment 66635

I saw a dude wearing a gas mask at Walmart.

 

[Arjun]

Nothing wrong with that, at least it forwards a message to others

I saw a dude wearing a gas mask at Walmart.

 

[mat200]

I take it those with smart-ass replies aren't struggling to feed their families or pay their rent or losing their small business to the lockdowns.

Your idea of freedom and liberty is far from mine. Hiding in your house at the direction of single-minded partisans is bullshit. There are more things going on in this country, for most people, than covid and blm riots.

The job of elected leaders is to persuade me of its worth (wearing a mask), not order me to do it.

I was at the VA recently for a blood draw. They're big on compliance. They gave me a mask to wear while I was there. Next is a touch screen kiosk to sign in. Next is a dozen health care folks in masks and gloves. But most have their masks pulled down so they can talk to each other and they need to be close because it's noisy. Their gloves are wiping their sweaty faces and touching everything including me. With bare hands they wash them first and after.

It's difficult to see how that policy is stopping anything from spreading.

Masks:

Wearing Masks – A Sledgehammer to Health - LewRockwell

They did it this time. A group of men and women executed a well thought out plan to drive the health of the human race into the toilet. Attacking the very basics of life, they have deprived people, en mass, of the life/health-giving rays of the sun (depressing vitamin D levels) with their...

bit.ly

A cluster randomised trial of cloth masks compared with medical masks in healthcare workers | BMJ Open

HI @BobRegnar

Re: The VA ..... sigh, they really should be doing a better job... oh well, guess they just do not care much about vets...

You should be even more pro-mask if you really feel this way "I take it those with smart-ass replies aren't struggling to feed their families or pay their rent or losing their small business to the lockdowns."

Seriously, this is not a joking matter. The information you are getting is pure BULL.
Lockdowns would not need to happen had we controlled this as well as Taiwan. They use masks to help control it. Seriously, look at how well they are doing and what they are doing differently.

We as a society threw away numerous opportunities to manage this better... and are now paying the price.

Masks reducing O2 levels... not in any significant manner for the masks we are talking about. The data and science is there.

The sources you are looking at and believing are incorrect and misleading.

Look for those who actually do scientific tests on the subject.

Here's better sources for you:
MedCram youtube
Dr Mike Hansen
Dr John Campbell
Peak Prosperity

The job of elected leaders is to persuade me of its worth (wearing a mask), not order me to do it.

This ^^ I agree with wholeheartedly.

And they've f'ed up royally since the start of this.... this is why I really do not consider them leaders anymore, but managers who follow.

Seriously, if ALL 4 of the channels I noted called this a Pandemic before our "elected leaders" did.. well, that says a lot.

All the "elected leaders" are slow on this game... they did not understand the logarithmic function of the spread of this.. had to move quick and decisively, which they clearly are not able to do.

 

[Arjun]