Oceanslider
Known around here
Typical leftist's assumption BS. No where did I say that we should do the same thing. Sweden did not lock down. It is just a view of what would happen if you don't lock down.
Pandemic threat? Anyone else concerned?
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tigerwillow1
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I don't know if any of you who have a dug-in view about masks have the expertise to look at the raw data and form an expert conclusion. I'm certainly not qualified and am just a slave to what to what I read and hear, and based on that, I don't take it seriously that we should be wearing masks, and I don't take it seriously that we shouldn't be wearing masks. We are being fed a bunch of bull, and I'm pretty skeptical of anybody who thinks they know which bull is the correct bull.
Experts say we should wear masks.
Experts say we shouldn't wear masks. (Dr. Fauci has said both at different times, as has Mr. Trump)
Experts say it's transferred on surfaces, others say it's not.
....and so on
And if you think you're making a decision based on raw data, that's pretty suspect, too. For instance from a left leaning organization that has the tendency to want to make the problem look worse:
State Lab Finds 90 Positive COVID-19 Test Results Were False
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/state-lab-finds-90-positive-covid-19-test-results-were-false/ar
BB16Yche?ocid=mmx
Adding to that, in the last week we've heard from inside Florida about the motorcycle accident death that was counted as covid-19, and a whole bunch of labs whose results were 100% positive. Additionally, there's all the reports about false negative results. One report I don't remember how to find said that some nurses who were suspicious of the lab results sent a bunch of unused swabs for testing and they all were reported as covid-19 positive. Another report says that individual people who test positive multiple times are reported as multiple people.
The only thing I'm sure of is that we're being fed a bunch of political BS, and I'd urge anybody dug in either way to realize you're reaching a conclusion based on corrupt information.
Experts say we should wear masks.
Experts say we shouldn't wear masks. (Dr. Fauci has said both at different times, as has Mr. Trump)
Experts say it's transferred on surfaces, others say it's not.
....and so on
And if you think you're making a decision based on raw data, that's pretty suspect, too. For instance from a left leaning organization that has the tendency to want to make the problem look worse:
State Lab Finds 90 Positive COVID-19 Test Results Were False
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/state-lab-finds-90-positive-covid-19-test-results-were-false/ar
BB16Yche?ocid=mmx
Adding to that, in the last week we've heard from inside Florida about the motorcycle accident death that was counted as covid-19, and a whole bunch of labs whose results were 100% positive. Additionally, there's all the reports about false negative results. One report I don't remember how to find said that some nurses who were suspicious of the lab results sent a bunch of unused swabs for testing and they all were reported as covid-19 positive. Another report says that individual people who test positive multiple times are reported as multiple people.
The only thing I'm sure of is that we're being fed a bunch of political BS, and I'd urge anybody dug in either way to realize you're reaching a conclusion based on corrupt information.
mat200
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Hi @tigerwillow1
I've listed the resources which have proven to be more accurate than the WHO, CDC, Fauci, numerous other Government officials.. as I have been following the information since the start of this thread and following what they have recommended it is easy for me to now tell you who have been more accurate on this topic.
I do not follow main stream media, nor do I follow government entities - all have failed us in significant ways.
Once again, here are my recommended resources ( no particular order )
on youtube:
Peak Prosperity
Dr John Campbell
MedCram
Doctor Mike Hansen
and
Jeremy Howard masks4all on twitter.. used to have very high number of links to the data sources and scientific research. Recently more links to politics.
Throughout this thread I have shared the resources imho which should be worth sharing, and each and everyone was welcomed to review those and also keep track themselves of what those channels were stating and compare them to the other sources that were available.
Just as I helped collect information and data to include into the Cliff Notes here - I have put in similar efforts to track down good information on the Pandemic.
At this point, the evidence that masks / face coverings are useful is indisputable from a scientific point, as is the airborne nature of SARS-CoV-2. ( airborne as defined by carried by airflow.. ) Anyone claiming otherwise should be highly not trusted at this moment.
mat200
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Chris Martensen reviews and shares his take on 2 recent papers / articles on T-cells...
Your T-Cells Determine Your Covid-19 Risk
Jul 16, 2020
Peak Prosperity
Chris Martensen's take on the following papers
Covers:
and
Your T-Cells Determine Your Covid-19 Risk
Jul 16, 2020
Peak Prosperity
Chris Martensen's take on the following papers
Covers:
and
tigerwillow1
Known around here
I therefore am highly not to be trusted. I can also say that I have watched every single Chris Martensen covid video. I do agree with him about hydroxychlorquine, not because he says so, but because how obvious it is that the USA trials have been designed to fail. His technical explanations about the cell structure, DNA, and so forth sound perfectly legimiate, but for all I know could be total fiction. I'm extremely annoyed at his constant "It didn't have to be this way" whining. Makes it look to me like there's an underlying agenda. For every one of your recommended resources, there's another who has a totally believable story in the opposite direction. I'm not smart enough in this area to know who is right, who's making a mistake, or who is politically motivated. You think I'm not to be trusted. I think you're being played. Having said that, I wish to declare peace and continue learning about IP cameras from everybody here.
BobRegnar
Getting comfortable
I suspect that you never get tired of spouting off about anything especially how smart you think you are. You're confused about something else, too, I never asked you about masks. That was you pushing your kool-aid when I mentioned mask mandates.
It's hilarious that you think you're the only one blessed with knowledge. Looks to me like you're more full of shit than anything else.
You want to question my patriotism, son? What have you done to "help the USA win one?"
Frankenscript
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I CALL BS ON THIS.
Before posting my reply yesterday, I reviewed what Alex Berenson's agenda might be rather than making an assumption. This person is very clearly a pro-keep-things-open-the-lockdowns-were-a-waste kind of person. By effectively retweeting the post, you amplify their message. This guy likes to tweet a lot, mostly ignorant stuff either taking out of context or exaggerating things either media or officials say, to make them sound less competent than they are.
You post his tweet without context to disavow why he posted it, you own his world view.
He CLEARLY posted that to show that we didn't need to lock down or take special measures. I doubt he even understands the things Sweden actually did along the way to try in their own way to keep the train on the rails without lockdowns.
Hmmmm... This was likely a conversation that was not supposed to leave the room.
www.businessinsider.com
Mike Pompeo said US intelligence shows the head of WHO was 'bought by the Chinese government,' according to reports
Pompeo accused WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus of being "bought" by China, in a private meeting with UK MPs.
www.businessinsider.com
tigerwillow1
Known around here
An example of an expert who thinks the information we're fed is political propaganda. He's not the only one.
Hydroxychloroquine could save up to 100,000 lives if used for COVID-19: Yale epidemiology professor
A few snippets:
Risch lamented that a "propaganda war" is being waged against the use of the drug for political purposes, not based on "medical facts."
Researchers at the Henry Ford Health System in Southeast Michigan have found that early administration of hydroxychloroquine makes hospitalized patients substantially less likely to die.
the mainstream media is not covering the benefits of hydroxychloroquine.
Hydroxychloroquine could save up to 100,000 lives if used for COVID-19: Yale epidemiology professor
A few snippets:
Risch lamented that a "propaganda war" is being waged against the use of the drug for political purposes, not based on "medical facts."
Researchers at the Henry Ford Health System in Southeast Michigan have found that early administration of hydroxychloroquine makes hospitalized patients substantially less likely to die.
the mainstream media is not covering the benefits of hydroxychloroquine.
Frankenscript
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I've followed the HQ issue with considerable interest since it started. While it was made a political issue here in the US, it isn't political elsewhere. However, I don't see much on success from it being used in Europe or Asia. I'm aware of at least one Asian study on it that closed early (unsuccessfully) because they couldn't find enough doctors willing to recruit patients for it.
There was that first report in early March (France, I think) which has since been discredited, a few unsuccessful attempts to replicate it, then very little else until the recent pretty good report about early administration done in the US. I'm interested to read more if anyone has good links handy.
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tigerwillow1
Known around here
I don't have any HCQ study links handy right now. As an overview, what I've noticed is that at least some of the studies that claim success are specific about when in the progression of covid it's administered, how much is administered, and what it's administered with. Then none of the studies in the US that get reported on follow the instructions, usually using it after it's too late to help, or using a wrong dosage regime. If the reports were honest, the summary would be "We did it wrong and it didn't work".
One thing I've heard (i.e. unconfirmed) is that in many of the countries who have been hit less seriously by covid than USA, HCQ is available OTC. Another thing that convinces me that HCQ is being purposely demonized is that over the 65 years it has been approved for use in the USA it has been considered one of the safest drugs around. Then as soon as Trump said something positive about it, experts came crawling out from all directions warning how dangerous it is, with the MSM dutifully spreading the word.
One thing I've heard (i.e. unconfirmed) is that in many of the countries who have been hit less seriously by covid than USA, HCQ is available OTC. Another thing that convinces me that HCQ is being purposely demonized is that over the 65 years it has been approved for use in the USA it has been considered one of the safest drugs around. Then as soon as Trump said something positive about it, experts came crawling out from all directions warning how dangerous it is, with the MSM dutifully spreading the word.
Precisely. It is that politicization and polarization that has blasted its way through EVERYTHING, that makes it impossible to know what to believe. Everyone appears to have motives that have nothing to do with patient well-being. Sure, they claim it to be, but at the end of the day, can we trust anything that has a human at the keyboard?
I've mentioned this in a prior post, but my wife's FB groups (private docs) have ER docs, in such a powerful echo chamber, they feel completely safe stating "If a critical patient enters my ER wearing a MAGA hat, I'd rather let them die than have another Trump voter." I kid you not. These are people who took the Hippocratic oath to do no harm. Yet, their political bias is so extreme, they're vocalizing intent to harm patients due to their politics. But it underscores that all people, whether PhD academic researchers, those that peer review, or the doc at your ER - all suffer from bias. And, given that higher education has a monopoly on a certain political bias, it should surprise no one that this goes unchecked.
It is so bad in the regular ER doc FB group, that to post anything that isn't overtly negative on Trump (i.e. something completely neutral) will bring down flames of hell. It has gotten so bad, that the handful of conservative docs (my wife included) created their own group called "deplorable docs". There, they're free to speak their minds freely w/o the intolerance of the general physician population.
Frankenscript
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The stuff that @erkme73 is horrifying but social media brings out the worst fringe elements and amplifies them. No liberal doctor I know would make such remarks, and I know plenty of them.
Nonetheless, a point that frequently gets lost here is that HQ is only political here in the US with less than five percent of the world's population.
The rest of the world does science too, and I hear very little so far about any benefits of HQ from the rest of the world. They have primarily found antivirals and steroids plus antibiotics for pneumonia to be the path of choice from what I can see. Keep in mind the monetary factor is also less prominent overseas; people and countries pay less for most medications than we do.
Of course most of Europe is now just mopping up straggler cases so running big studies quickly is harder to do now.
I believe a version of the Ford institute trial is now being run that will control for steroid use (this was not controlled for in the one released a month ago) and doctors I know anticipate much of the perceived benefit will eventually be attributed to steroids but a significant signal may yet emerge from HQ.
Most important thing is to mask up in public, because there's no magic bullet to cure you if you get it.
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Nonetheless, a point that frequently gets lost here is that HQ is only political here in the US with less than five percent of the world's population.
The rest of the world does science too, and I hear very little so far about any benefits of HQ from the rest of the world. They have primarily found antivirals and steroids plus antibiotics for pneumonia to be the path of choice from what I can see. Keep in mind the monetary factor is also less prominent overseas; people and countries pay less for most medications than we do.
Of course most of Europe is now just mopping up straggler cases so running big studies quickly is harder to do now.
I believe a version of the Ford institute trial is now being run that will control for steroid use (this was not controlled for in the one released a month ago) and doctors I know anticipate much of the perceived benefit will eventually be attributed to steroids but a significant signal may yet emerge from HQ.
Most important thing is to mask up in public, because there's no magic bullet to cure you if you get it.
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For the unemployed. Truth behold, even with increasing number of available jobs, many employers are still reluctant to hire due to uncertainty over the progression of this pandemic.
This economy is only going to get worse; we are heading towards recession, and this bill is only going to make the consumer be less confident and spend less.
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