So is there a list of the manufacture ratings for consumers to be steered in the right direction on the forum? I happened to fall for their crap, and started looking at the 5K units on the market. are the 5K units the latest on the market?
Thanks
Reolink - good & bad
- Thread starter TL1096r
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So is there a list of the manufacture ratings for consumers to be steered in the right direction on the forum? I happened to fall for their crap, and started looking at the 5K units on the market. are the 5K units the latest on the market?
Thanks
mat200
IPCT Contributor
- Jan 17, 2017
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Welcome Santiago,
As you can see, Reolink has burned a number of members here as well as done numerous less than acceptable astroturfing / "creative marketing" campaigns here.
After careful inspection of various options, it is clear that there are some better options than Reolink if you're willing to take some time to learn here.
Having picked up other cheap products, and some not so cheap consumer wire free products before coming here, I can share with you that my learning journey has taken some time.
Thus, Just in case you have not yet seen this:
It's easy to get swamped with information here, so I wanted to share some notes with you
Please check out @giomania 's notes:
Dahua Starlight Varifocal Turret (IPC-HDW5231R-Z)
I have also made notes which are a summary of a lot of the reading I've been doing here,:
Looking for some advice and direction!
Have fun joining us here.
mat200
IPCT Contributor
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Hi Saltster,
There's some nice Dahua 12MP units coming out / already out... price is a bit high, so I think a lot of people would still be happy with more affordable cameras.
There's some really nice 4K / 8MP vs 2MP Starlight comparisons which have been done here. The starlight still is the low light winner, while the 4K does better in good light.
Check out #20 in my notes ( link above )
To be honest the most surprising thing to me about this (or maybe not after reading through various threads here) is that you, a staff member, treats nearly every post/question/comment from someone about Reolink with contempt and personal attack. Are you an owner of this site? I would assume so because if I was the owner (and assuming I cared) this kind of thing would not be allowed...to put it mildly.
To the rest of the folks who have more level minds thank you for the comments. Before I came here I wasn't familiar with Dahua (or some other brands) and you've given me food for thought. I've seen some videos, at least of their higher end cameras, and they look great. I think the reason something like the Reolink is compelling to buyers is that you get more (features) for less. Maybe not better implementation... but from a feature perspective the Reolink looks better on paper.
That said ultimately I care about video quality and certain features - for example compatibility with Synology as I have a high end unit from them (a 3615xs) and want to see how far I can push the quality envelop for long term but time limited video storage from several cameras. Right now I'm using D-link 5029l's and I'm very disappointed in the video quality but when I bought them they were feature rich and cheap and I didn't know any better
So now I'm looking to figure out exactly what I want vs what I should be looking for... which aren't always the same... to achieve my goals. For example I was thinking how cool it would be to have motion tracking... but I also realize that can be useful in some situations but bad in others (say a busy street) or the results would not be what I expect.
I was also hoping to be able to go with wireless cams with my Netgear Orbi wireless setup (hub and 3 satellites) with maybe the easier to install cameras running off a POE switch... still not sure.
Lot of questions and knowledge I need to gather I can see.
- Jan 28, 2017
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Reolink sucks, I still have it but their software update made the picture worse.. I try to use blueiris but it is laggy, I have to get use to. I am just waiting for it to fail to buy another setup and hopefully there will be something better.
fenderman
Staff member
- Mar 9, 2014
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Yes I am the owner....you will learn quicly that this website is NOT an internet safe space. You will hear it like it is. You are walking on thin ice, dont think you can come here and spew passive aggressive insults in your second post. As far as reolink garbage, you dont get more features...they skimp on many that an amateur like yourself cannot see...like true wdr or even ONVIF compliance- they trick you with words like compatible...To be honest the most surprising thing to me about this (or maybe not after reading through various threads here) is that you, a staff member, treats nearly every post/question/comment from someone about Reolink with contempt and personal attack. Are you an owner of this site? I would assume so because if I was the owner (and assuming I cared) this kind of thing would not be allowed...to put it mildly.
To the rest of the folks who have more level minds thank you for the comments. Before I came here I wasn't familiar with Dahua (or some other brands) and you've given me food for thought. I've seen some videos, at least of their higher end cameras, and they look great. I think the reason something like the Reolink is compelling to buyers is that you get more (features) for less. Maybe not better implementation... but from a feature perspective the Reolink looks better on paper.
That said ultimately I care about video quality and certain features - for example compatibility with Synology as I have a high end unit from them (a 3615xs) and want to see how far I can push the quality envelop for long term but time limited video storage from several cameras. Right now I'm using D-link 5029l's and I'm very disappointed in the video quality but when I bought them they were feature rich and cheap and I didn't know any better
So now I'm looking to figure out exactly what I want vs what I should be looking for... which aren't always the same... to achieve my goals. For example I was thinking how cool it would be to have motion tracking... but I also realize that can be useful in some situations but bad in others (say a busy street) or the results would not be what I expect.
I was also hoping to be able to go with wireless cams with my Netgear Orbi wireless setup (hub and 3 satellites) with maybe the easier to install cameras running off a POE switch... still not sure.
Lot of questions and knowledge I need to gather I can see.
oh god, you go from reolink garbage to something even worse like orbi...STOP...instead of running your mouth, start reading this forum and leaning.
Orbi is worse than Reolink? Why? I'd really like to understand why you would say that. I have a house that is completely unwired, at present, so wireless (for now) is my only option. The Orbi is the first solution that has allowed me to stream native 4K Blu-Ray video, wirelessly, from my server room to my livingroom. Orbi has 1.7Gbps backhaul and each satellite can act as a bridge so devices hardwired to the Orbi router...and Orbi satellite can take advantage of the 1.7ghz backhaul channel. Wireless devices connecting to any node, regardless of wireless rate (N/AC/etc) will not affect the performance of any device hard wired into the satellites nor do they impact the backhaul channel.
So far the Orbi has been by far the best wireless solution I've ever used at home including using a Nighthawk 8500 and 7000 and several other routers in the past. Streaming native 4K blu-rays wirelessly without any interruption in the video stream is damn impressive to anyone who knows what it takes to do so (I've tested up to 128 Mbps discs, 100GB).
So far the Orbi has been by far the best wireless solution I've ever used at home including using a Nighthawk 8500 and 7000 and several other routers in the past. Streaming native 4K blu-rays wirelessly without any interruption in the video stream is damn impressive to anyone who knows what it takes to do so (I've tested up to 128 Mbps discs, 100GB).
fenderman
Staff member
- Mar 9, 2014
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To be clear the reference is to using wireless crap like wireless cam with your orbi...start learning...
I still am not sure what you are trying to say as I never mentioned or used Arlo... but I assume you are trying to say they trick you into buying things like the Arlo thinking you are getting something you aren't. I get it. After reading here and elsewhere I can see there are features, like WDR, that are important but you don't get.
Ultimately I'm going to probably pickup something like the IPC-HDW5231R-Z and run it side by side with the 423ws (which I already bought, maybe unfortunately, we'll see) and compare the two using my Synology's Surveillance Station for now.
Does Dahua have a good wireless camera solution or is wireless considered to be too unreliable for security camera use?
Ultimately I'm going to probably pickup something like the IPC-HDW5231R-Z and run it side by side with the 423ws (which I already bought, maybe unfortunately, we'll see) and compare the two using my Synology's Surveillance Station for now.
Does Dahua have a good wireless camera solution or is wireless considered to be too unreliable for security camera use?
fenderman
Staff member
- Mar 9, 2014
- 36,892
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Do not use wireless...I edited my post to reflect wireless well before you posted your manifesto response....
mat200
IPCT Contributor
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Hi Santiago,
In general WiFi is too unreliable for a 24/7 video stream, far easier to go wired.
Can you make a more reliable wireless infrastructure? - yes of course, however most do not want to spend the time or funds to do so - thus wired is preferred as a general rule - it will be easier and more affordable to make a reliable wired setup.
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I mentioned ARLO and RING, I am using these right now to view over the internet to avoid using reolink China server but how else can I do it, I have to download BI app and then do it that way through a VPN? It seemed much easier just to use the arlo and ring app and have the ability to set an alarm and speak which actually came in handy recently when people were doing some suspicious things on the property.
mat200
IPCT Contributor
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Hi TL
The Arlo and Ring products are just not reliable enough, nor is the quality of the images good enough.
The Arlo / Arlo Pro has an ID distance of 5.6 feet. YES, you got that right.. the camera needs to be < 5.6 feet away from the suspect to get 100 ppf or better, AS well as mounted low enough to get a chance at a good facial ID ( 8 feet or less )
Ring 720p products are similar.
1080p products are typically better - but with the super wide FOV which consumers love to purchase - also have very short ID distances. All of this for a rather pricey product.
Furthermore...
Security Camera System Minimal Viable Product requirements:
- 1) It must be Reliable.
- 2) It must be able to capture good enough images to potentially ID suspects.
- 3) It must be useful for evidence. [ thus date and time stamps are critical ]
What does this mean in practical terms?
Wired systems with local storage will be the most reliable. While some maybe able to get wifi cameras to work well enough it requires a significant investment in building and maintaining a quality wifi network, which most people are unwilling to learn and spend the resources to do. Wifi is also subject to interference ( common ) and even possible jamming ( less common ).
Quality cameras are required. 1080p+ The best way to determine if a camera is good is to test it and compare it to others. Megapixels is only one factor to look at, and does not in itself determine the quality of the image. That said, your search should avoid 720p and poorer spec'ed cameras, they tend to be the cheaper cameras and provide poorer results. Test both day time and night time.
Few consumer marketed cameras have date and time stamps. This is critical if you plan to use your video images for evidence.
[ good wired camera = In general either PoE ( Power over Ethernet ) using cat5e/cat6 cable for digital, OR coax wire with power wires and BNC connectors for analog based systems. ]
...
Arlo / Arlo Pro - why they make poor security cameras: ( a lot of this also applies to the Ring cameras )
There are a number of reasons, which apply to many consumer wire free products.
The Arlo / Arlo Pro system fail in 2 of the 3 minimal viable product categories for security cameras, and in the 3rd one does a poor job ( ID distance very short, night image poor ).
1) Poor resolution and wide FOV make for short ID distances
2) Poor reliability, cameras will disconnect from base station, base station needs periodic reboots, cloud service auth failures
3) Lag with cloud service
4) Issues with reliability of motion detection
5) Issues to lag before recording
6) Poor night vision
7) No embedded time stamp - thus videos are poor for evidence. ( Arlo, Ring, and Nest fail here )
8) Difficult to manage multiple clips for downloading from the cloud service.
9) Lag to access live view
10) Cameras do not have local storage - thus when disconnected to the base station they are unable to record events.
Note: Arlo base station has USB ports which were intended for future options, however reportedly Netgear did not enable local attached storage until the Arlo Pro base station came out. Arlo Pro 2 improves on the Arlo / Arlo Pro with 1080p resolution, which helps. However the system still suffers from numerous faults similar to it's prior versions, and only when the cameras are wired do you see significant functional improvements. At which point you may want to just install a PoE system.
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Yes to everything you said and very good information and true.
We know this, but it was able to do what we needed, it is hanging low and able to pick up and alert us through the phone with little to no hassle, we know it is wireless but it is reliable and we never had an issue, the quality is "good enough".
Arlo does have a time stamp, maybe an update to the new firmware?
We have normally used it when we are away and it has helped catch a few shady people and warn them to get away and without that 2-way communication it would have been difficult to do so.
What is a better option:
-we get a dahua (no communication, no alarm)
-wired which is going to be very difficult as it is not a camera that is on the house and has to come over brick etc so no matter where we run it you will see a wire and can easily be cut by people who are observant.
-VPN service but I saw a lot of VPN apps have been logging activity and easily hacked - which one is best?
-then I have to buy the blue iris and hook the BI up to a dedicated computer with BI to watch it on the phone, does it have good no-lag instant notifications?
We know this, but it was able to do what we needed, it is hanging low and able to pick up and alert us through the phone with little to no hassle, we know it is wireless but it is reliable and we never had an issue, the quality is "good enough".
Arlo does have a time stamp, maybe an update to the new firmware?
We have normally used it when we are away and it has helped catch a few shady people and warn them to get away and without that 2-way communication it would have been difficult to do so.
What is a better option:
-we get a dahua (no communication, no alarm)
-wired which is going to be very difficult as it is not a camera that is on the house and has to come over brick etc so no matter where we run it you will see a wire and can easily be cut by people who are observant.
-VPN service but I saw a lot of VPN apps have been logging activity and easily hacked - which one is best?
-then I have to buy the blue iris and hook the BI up to a dedicated computer with BI to watch it on the phone, does it have good no-lag instant notifications?
mat200
IPCT Contributor
- Jan 17, 2017
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I have yet to see a time stamp from Arlo.
You can setup alarms, you can purchase Dahua video intercom systems.
You can just steal an Arlo off the magnetic bases easily.
You can set up a wired system which is difficult to cut.
Arlo system has horrible lag, and a major system outage the day after BF.
Last edited:
- Jan 28, 2017
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Yes arlo does not have the time stamp, sorry!
Really, it had an outage day after BF, why is that?
I agree, arlo was very overpriced and just a silly setup, but we use it when we go out and shut it it off after, we normally get alerts quickly.
It seems like ring and arlo is so popular but just a crappy technology, why is that?
What Dahua video intercom are you referring to? And how do you set it up to get instant alerts over the phone without being compromised?
Really, it had an outage day after BF, why is that?
I agree, arlo was very overpriced and just a silly setup, but we use it when we go out and shut it it off after, we normally get alerts quickly.
It seems like ring and arlo is so popular but just a crappy technology, why is that?
What Dahua video intercom are you referring to? And how do you set it up to get instant alerts over the phone without being compromised?
mat200
IPCT Contributor
- Jan 17, 2017
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Welcome to cloud service... sometimes it fails and they will not tell us why.
Consumers have little idea about what is really required. A big part of this has to do with "enhance" and Hollywood... ( hint: youtube - search for enhance )
Please search here on ipcamtalk for the terms - numerous threads on doorbell products... ( products from LTS / laView Wifi doorbell, Dahua VTOxxx .. , grandview .. )
mykal335xi
n3wb
Glad I found this forum, I've got old chinese foscams that are terrible but were cheap, recently I've moved out to the country where I need something higher quality, and more reliable and was digging through the chinese cams on Amazon. I'll be looking into replacing iSpy that I used for simple recording with Blue Iris, and read up on the forum to hopefully find cameras that will work for my situation (kind of like a small ranch, 3 buildings, pool, long driveway, ~5 acres without much trees).
We had a neighbor visit the other day and they had a lady come up their 1/4 mile driveway and mess around their garage at 11:30pm so the wife is on board securing the property, cams are the easy part vs fencing, gates, sensors, etc. But research first so I don't buy cheap stuff and then regret it.
Thanks for the forum, and for the blunt advice, I hope to contribute to the forum.
We had a neighbor visit the other day and they had a lady come up their 1/4 mile driveway and mess around their garage at 11:30pm so the wife is on board securing the property, cams are the easy part vs fencing, gates, sensors, etc. But research first so I don't buy cheap stuff and then regret it.
Thanks for the forum, and for the blunt advice, I hope to contribute to the forum.