Sanity check on home surveillance kit that I'm looking at

[SomeOregonDude]

Hi, I own a home which I would like to outfit with a security camera system. I am technical (a developer) but I'd like to keep this simple, so I'm currently looking at "plug and play" systems like this one:

Hikvision EKI-K164T412 16-Channel 8MP NVR with 4TB HDD & 12 4MP Night Vision Turret Cameras Kit

Buy Hikvision EKI-K164T412 16-Channel 8MP NVR with 4TB HDD & 12 4MP Night Vision Turret Cameras Kit featuring Record from and Manage up to 16 Cameras, Up to 8MP Recording Resolution, 4TB Preinstalled HDD, H.265+/H.265/H.264+/H.264/MPEG-4 Codecs, 16 PoE Ports, 12 4MP 2.8mm Turret Cameras...

www.bhphotovideo.com

Why this one? Well I did a bit of research and it seems that Hikvision is an "ok" brand, generally respected (hope that's true), and the kit means I don't have to mess with building yet another PC (done that, just not really wanting to do it again right now). It seems that these kits give me everything I need - PoE, which I like the idea of, and 12 cameras, which should be plenty to give lots of views around the house (it's not a large house, just a ranch style with large yard, 1500 sq ft). I primarily want to look out for people trespassing to steal, as well as keep track of the stray cats who we feed. I like the idea of the dedicated NVR, but I can't tell from any of the literature how user friendly it will be, e.g. for viewing remotely. I don't think I need anything fancy, like pan or zoom, and I'm not looking for alarms or alerts (cats would constantly be setting it off). I just want something that gives me "eyes" outside from different views when I want it. Also I'd like fairly good video quality, if possible, so that I can actually see details on cars going by. One of our cats was killed last week by a car, and it happened sometime early morning or night, and it happened right in front of my house. It would have been nice to be able to go back and see what happened, and maybe identify the car if it looked like it was driving recklessly (I've been seeing more fast driving in my neighborhood recently, perhaps due to the virus lockdowns - I've also read articles from police saying they are seeing the same).

Anyway, sorry for the digression, I'd just like to have eyes around the outside of my house. I am usually sitting at the computer in my study, and I'd like to maybe have a KVM so when I hear something outside I can just switch over to the camera views (same monitor) and flip around quickly on the views to see what's happening outside, rather than having to get up and go out and do the circuit, possibly in the rain, put on shoes etc etc. Also would like to be able to do same from my phone when on the couch watching TV.

So the big question is, what am I going to hate with the above system in a year or two, if anything? Like I said I don't think I'm all that ambitious, I just want to have a bunch of fixed views from strategic points, but I've never used cameras and wondering what I'm not thinking about that maybe I should be thinking about here. I would like to avoid going the custom PC route, Blue Iris, Zone Minder etc if at all possible, I know feature creep and I'm trying to keep it simple here, but if there's really compelling reason to go that route (other than "it'll be awesome and expandable" trust me as a geek, been there, done that rabbit hole) then I'm all ears.

Thanks!

Oh and I hope this isn't seen as spam - the only reason I'm posting a link to B&H Photo is that I read that Hikvision only gives support if you buy from one of their authorized retailers, and that was the only one I really recognized.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Welcome to the land of video surveillance lunatics. Be sure to check the WiKI, in the blue bar at the top of the page. Study, carefully on a real computer, the Cliff Notes in there. There is also a lot of other good information for sizing a system and keeping it safe on the internet, foil the "phone home" features. Read, study plan, ask questions, revise plans and test before spending money. It'll save you time, frustration and money in the end. There's tons of reviews here on cameras, and NVRs to help confuse you even more when trying to make a decision.

If you want a good, actually good, system at a reasonable price check with Andy at Empire Tech/King Security. He deals with mostly Dahua but also has some Hikvision. Additionally, IPCT sells Hikvision and Amcrest. One more is Nelly's Security, also here on IPCT. You'll find most people here use Blue Iris on a stand alone PC rather than an NVR. WiFi, Reolink and Foscam, just to name a few, are "consumer grade" equipment and, in spite of their advertised claims, poor performers especially at night.


kingsecurity2014@163.com
Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: EmpireTech Andy
Andy's AliExpress store: Empire Technology Co., Ltd - Amazing prodcuts with exclusive discounts on AliExpress
Andy's Amazon store: EmpireTech-Andy @ Amazon.com:
forum: EmpireTech Andy

Keep in mind that "kits" are usually, but not always, stripped down models, features and maybe even some internal hardware/circuitry, removed to get the prices down. A quick look at the camera specs shows pretty poor, by today's standards, in low light situations. The best solution, unfortunately, is to use a dedicated PC with Blue Iris. BI has much more sophisticated motion detection than an NVR. A PC can be bought used off of EBay for two to four hundred dollars complete with a Win10 license. A 4TB hard drive won't store a whole lot of 4K video, probably around three days worth with 12 cameras so plan on a bigger drive. Don't chase megapixels, resolution. 4MP is the "gold standard" right now but only with a proper, 1/1.7 or 1/1.8 sensor. Above all, read the Cliff Notes, plan, plan, ask, ask, revise, revise, the buy one camera and test, test, test. It's worth the effort not to jump at something that "looks good" and be sorry later.

If you really want a "kit" check with Andy, he can put something together for you with an NVR. He stands behind his products very strongly.

 

[SomeOregonDude]

Keep in mind that "kits" are usually, but not always, stripped down models, features and maybe even some internal hardware/circuitry, removed to get the prices down.

The kit is on Hikvision site:

4K Value Express Kits

Hikvision EKI-KxxxT4xx Series 4K Value Express Kits are a cost-effective solution for value-oriented users. Each kit is supplied with four, six, or twelve network cameras with 4 MP image sensors, and 4-, 8-, or 16-channel NVRs in the same box.

us.hikvision.com

The cameras are ECI-T24F2, which doesn't come up with any results on the Hikvision site. Hmmm.

A quick look at the camera specs shows pretty poor, by today's standards, in low light situations.

Can you expand on that? I'm trying to learn what to look for here.

The best solution, unfortunately, is to use a dedicated PC with Blue Iris. BI has much more sophisticated motion detection than an NVR.

As I said in my original post, I'm not interested in motion detection, since it would constantly be set off by our cats. I have looked at Zone Minder (I use Linux on my desktop, not Windows), but like I said I'd prefer to keep things simple if at all possible. What I'd like, ideally, is for someone to tell me why what I'm looking at wouldn't work for what I want to do, which seems to be pretty basic. Thanks!

 

[SouthernYankee]

My standard welcome to the forum message.

Please read the IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes and other items in the IP Cam Talk Wiki. (read on a real computer, not a phone). The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.

Quick start
1) If you do not have a wired monitored alarm system, get that first
2) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras if you need good low light cameras.
3) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
4) Do not use wifi cameras.
5) Do not use cloud storage
6) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
7) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
8) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
9) Do not use reolink, ring, nest, Arlo cameras (they are junk), no cloud cameras
10) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
11) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
12) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
13) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 7ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
14) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
15) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator V3
16) POE list PoE Switch Suggestion List
17) Camera Sensor size, bigger is general better Sensor Size Chart


Cameras to look at
IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED . Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+) - 4MP starlight
.................... Dahua IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED review
IPC-T5442TM-AS ..... Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ - 4MP starlight+
IPC-B5442E-ZE ...... Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+
IPC-T2347G-LU ...... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera. (DS-2CD2347G1-LU)
IPC-HDW2231R-ZS .... Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal
IPC-HDW2231T-ZS-S2 . Review-OEM IPC-T2231T-ZS 2mp Varifocal Starlight Camera
IPC-HDW5231R-ZE .... Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
IPC-HFW4239T-ASE ... IPC-HFW4239T-ASE
IPCT-HDW5431RE-I ... Review - IP Cam Talk 4 MP IR Fixed Turret Network Camera
IPC-T5241H-AS-PV ... Review-OEM IPC-T5241H-AS-PV 2mp AI active deterrence cam
DS-2CD2325FWD-I
N22AL12 ............ New Dahua N22AL12 Budget Cam w/Starlight -- low cost entry

Other dahua 4MP starlight Dahua 4MP Starlight Lineup

My preferred indoor cameras
DS-2CD2442FWD-IW
IPC-K35A Review-Dahua IPC-K35A 3mp Cube Camera

If interested in Blue Iris and other setup items see the following post

Newbie Starter Guide to IP Cam System – VPN setup – Computer Hardware – Blue Iris – Dahua Cameras

This is an intermediate / newbie guide for people just starting out looking for a surveillance setup. I know this setup might not be for everyone and there are many options. You can find a lot of this information in the Wiki: IP Cam Talk Wiki | IP Cam Talk A great place to start in the Wiki...

ipcamtalk.com

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Test do not guess

 

[mat200]

Hi, I own a home which I would like to outfit with a security camera system. I am technical (a developer) but I'd like to keep this simple, so I'm currently looking at "plug and play" systems like this one:

Hikvision EKI-K164T412 16-Channel 8MP NVR with 4TB HDD & 12 4MP Night Vision Turret Cameras Kit

Buy Hikvision EKI-K164T412 16-Channel 8MP NVR with 4TB HDD & 12 4MP Night Vision Turret Cameras Kit featuring Record from and Manage up to 16 Cameras, Up to 8MP Recording Resolution, 4TB Preinstalled HDD, H.265+/H.265/H.264+/H.264/MPEG-4 Codecs, 16 PoE Ports, 12 4MP 2.8mm Turret Cameras...

www.bhphotovideo.com

Why this one? Well I did a bit of research and it seems that Hikvision is an "ok" brand, generally respected (hope that's true), and the kit means I don't have to mess with building yet another PC (done that, just not really wanting to do it again right now). It seems that these kits give me everything I need - PoE, which I like the idea of, and 12 cameras, which should be plenty to give lots of views around the house (it's not a large house, just a ranch style with large yard, 1500 sq ft). I primarily want to look out for people trespassing to steal, as well as keep track of the stray cats who we feed. I like the idea of the dedicated NVR, but I can't tell from any of the literature how user friendly it will be, e.g. for viewing remotely. I don't think I need anything fancy, like pan or zoom, and I'm not looking for alarms or alerts (cats would constantly be setting it off). I just want something that gives me "eyes" outside from different views when I want it. Also I'd like fairly good video quality, if possible, so that I can actually see details on cars going by. One of our cats was killed last week by a car, and it happened sometime early morning or night, and it happened right in front of my house. It would have been nice to be able to go back and see what happened, and maybe identify the car if it looked like it was driving recklessly (I've been seeing more fast driving in my neighborhood recently, perhaps due to the virus lockdowns - I've also read articles from police saying they are seeing the same).

Anyway, sorry for the digression, I'd just like to have eyes around the outside of my house. I am usually sitting at the computer in my study, and I'd like to maybe have a KVM so when I hear something outside I can just switch over to the camera views (same monitor) and flip around quickly on the views to see what's happening outside, rather than having to get up and go out and do the circuit, possibly in the rain, put on shoes etc etc. Also would like to be able to do same from my phone when on the couch watching TV.

So the big question is, what am I going to hate with the above system in a year or two, if anything? Like I said I don't think I'm all that ambitious, I just want to have a bunch of fixed views from strategic points, but I've never used cameras and wondering what I'm not thinking about that maybe I should be thinking about here. I would like to avoid going the custom PC route, Blue Iris, Zone Minder etc if at all possible, I know feature creep and I'm trying to keep it simple here, but if there's really compelling reason to go that route (other than "it'll be awesome and expandable" trust me as a geek, been there, done that rabbit hole) then I'm all ears.

Thanks!

Oh and I hope this isn't seen as spam - the only reason I'm posting a link to B&H Photo is that I read that Hikvision only gives support if you buy from one of their authorized retailers, and that was the only one I really recognized.

Welcome @SomeOregonDude

"Hi, I own a home which I would like to outfit with a security camera system. I am technical (a developer) but I'd like to keep this simple, so I'm currently looking at "plug and play" system.."

Excellent to have you on-board, as I've been wanting to setup a clone facebook / uber website and mobile app, something easy to deploy and completely plug and play perhaps you have some good recommendations for that?

I'm certain you're probably wondering "What? ... ok perhaps I can help, but he really did not tell me enough for me to help him.. does it need to scale? Uber - in what way do you want a uber clone? or a facebook clone? why both a website and mobile app? what are you really wanting to achieve?"

Granted a surveillance / security camera system is simpler than a complex website like facebook / uber.. still if you want to achieve your purposes you need to dig closer into details.

Re: "..Also I'd like fairly good video quality, if possible, so that I can actually see details on cars going by. One of our cats was killed last week by a car, and it happened sometime early morning or night, and it happened right in front of my house .."

Breaking it down, looks like you want cameras which perform well in low light conditions, and you may need varifocal cameras to get more pixels on target on the street by your house.

Do check out the cliff notes at ipcamtalk. Look at the DORI section. Look at the LPR section.

Unfortunately the specs on the cameras for the kit you pointed out do not show up on the B&H website when I checked - so hard to tell how good those 4MP cameras are.

Definitely take some time to read a bit more before you jump in, and right down what you functionally need. ( i.e. ID cars at night, ID package thieves in the day,.. )


btw - here is an example of a recent image capture by a member, check it out
Video Of Blower Being Stolen From My Gardeners Truck


attached is the kit you're looking at

 

[mat200]

A little bit more digging and I found the specs on the Hikvision site:

Hikvision USA:
4K Value Express Kits

spec sheet

https://us.hikvision.com/sites/default/files/data_sheet/ve_eki-kxxxt4xx_series_kits_012320na.pdf

Cameras
• 1/3" (4 MP) Progressive Scan CMOS
• 2560 x 1440 (4 MP) Resolution
• 2.8 mm Fixed Lens
• EXIR 2.0 with 100 ft (30 m) IR Range
• H.265+/H.265/H.264+/H.264/MJPEG
• IP67 Protection
• Durable Metal Housing
• 120 dB WDR for Clear Images


Due to the relatively small sensor size and your need for low light performance, I would recommend skipping this kit and looking for cameras which perform better in low light conditions.

 

[sebastiantombs]

It doesn't matter where the "kit" comes from, usually they have features removed.

If you read the Cliff Notes you will find out why I said that camera will not perform well in low light conditions. For a 4MP camera to perform well it needs a sensor at least 1/1.27" in diameter. Those cameras have a 1/2" sensor which is too small for effective low light performance. The lux rating on that camera is quite high, in the .1xxx range, while a camera with a 1/1.7" senso is down in the .008 range or so.

A 4TB drive will not hold more than a couple of days worth of video at 4MP, and say 15 frames per second. You will probably want a 8TB, or larger drive.

Motion detection in BI can be configured to be a sensitive, or not sensitive, as you might desire. Motion detection will generate alerts which will make reviewing video much simpler. Instead of having to look at 24 hours worth you can just review alerts. That, to me, makes it very desirable.

As far as the Linux versus Windoohs argument, BI runs on Windoohs and not Linux. While not the best solution a Windoohs VM could also work from Linux.

 

[SomeOregonDude]

Due to the relatively small sensor size and your need for low light performance, I would recommend skipping this kit and looking for cameras which perform better in low light conditions.

Ok, I'm getting a few things so far from all this...

1. The cameras in that kit aren't so great for night time
2. Dahua seems to be a generally well-regarded brand as well as Hikvision. I'm not married to Hikvision, and I did see Dahua before, but to be honest I just skated over it due to it looking like a generic no-name Chinese brand which I try to steer clear of when possible. But if it's good, then I'm open to it.
3. I want something with a larger sensor (?) and maybe turret format
4. Some guy named Andy is apparently going to be my friend in the near future, lol

Ok, so more research needed, obviously. I found out what I needed at least, which is that the cameras in that kit maybe won't be as good as I'd like to have for night time resolution. So I need to keep looking. Thanks very much.

 

[SomeOregonDude]

Excellent to have you on-board, as I've been wanting to setup a clone facebook / uber website and mobile app, something easy to deploy and completely plug and play perhaps you have some good recommendations for that?

While I am a web developer, I am not familiar with what's current in the off-the-shelf website building software right now, sorry. For the last 20 years I've been working independently basically building my own site, which I am in the process of expanding to do some of the things you're talking about (facebook and twitter functionality, but done right without all the privacy rape bs). I honestly don't think I'd be much help to you, sorry, because I'm a lone wolf who is developing my own stuff and not interested in doing contract work for others.*

*I just realized that sounds unfriendly, but it's not intended to be. Just a statement of how I work, that's all. I'm more than happy to give any free advice, fwiw. I work primarily with Debian Linux, Perl, mod_perl, Apache, MySQL (now MariaDB), Embperl (perl/html template), Sphinx search, Leaflet maps. I'm an old dog who's been programming for almost 40 years.

 

[lewic]

The kit listed is from Hikvision's "Value Express" line. Honestly look at people using this kit in the real world.... It looks like crap. You will definately get a "No resources" error when trying to view your cameras on the NVR using the local monitor. Are you needing twelve cameras? I am sure I can piece together a system for you. What do you want in a system? What is most important? You said good quality.... Good nighttime.... Hikvision makes good stuff. Just not the Value Express line. I would at least go with the "value" series. Value Express will leave you wanting more once you see other people's system and what it can do that your's can't. I would at least go with an "I" series NVR.

DS-7616NI-I2 - This can support up to 12 megapixel cameras and have 4K video outputs. This also supports license plate cameras and if you decide to do home automation such as Control4 then this is what you want.

Don't need something this fancy? Go with the "K" series. DS-7616NI-K2.

Cameras.... How about 4 MP ColorVu. This will let you see in color at night. It has a very low lux rating so if you have any type of lighting whether it is porch light or street light or even accent lighting then it will get you a very good color picture.

One thing that the kit you listed doesn't include is the cabling. You will need to get Cat5e or Cat6 cables and run them. Once the cameras are mounted up then plug in your NVR. Turn it on and set up the password on that NVR. After the password is set.... Plug in the cameras into the back of the NVR into the onboard POE's and they will add to the system using "plug and play". It will start recording by default in continuous mode which is 24 hours a day. You can go and set it to event recording which will let you record only when it detects motion which will give you more days of recording. I would guesstimate that with 12 cameras.... 4 MP recording at 15-18 frames per second on a 4TB HDD will give you roughly two weeks of recording. Set some of the cameras on event recording and you could get double that.

 

[samplenhold]

When one first starts researching security cameras, picking a kit seems to be the smart thing to do. But usually kit cameras are watered down versions of the vendor's offerings, as others have said. But for me, the other problem is that most kits do not give you the cameras that are right for your specific application. I almost bought a kit. One even had three different types of cameras. But when I look at what my system is today (and what it will be in the future), it has very different cameras than any kit I looked at.

I started out small, purchased one camera and used it to test different locations. Then added cameras as time went on and my understanding of each location's unique requirements changed. I now have eight different models and just ordered two more different models. Why so many different models? Because some locations requirements were different than other locations.

Read the Cliff Notes. Get an idea of what each location has for requirements, like how much light is there, field of view, what are you trying to accomplish from that view (ID face? just overview of wide area? get details on a car? LPR? etc). Each one of those could require a different model camera. A kit will never give you that.

However, if you want something quick and simple, then maybe a kit is right for you if you do not mind not getting the best video of the area.

Like others have stated, you could build your own kit by picking out a few cameras and an NVR, since you are not interested in Blue Iris.