New home nearly finished, time to pick the cameras - need help.

[remsta]

First of all, I would like to thank everyone on here for the immense amount of knowledge you provide, it is amazing!

I work in the tech space and consider myself pretty in the know when it comes to tech but I realized that with IP cameras I basically know nothing and so I hope I can get some help. My parents are about to finish building their new house and I have been and am responsible for all the tech because their previous house was an absolute disaster. Unfortunately, the group we have used to wire the house and do most of the electrical work are good at that but that is about where it ends. I would call them 'hobby' smart, they will suggest what they have previously installed but do not want to be dangerous and try something they haven't installed before. So when I asked them about Security cameras, they suggested some basic 2MP Reolink or Hikvision cameras which I immediately knew were terrible.

So I have taken it upon myself to organize the cameras and have just asked them to run CAT6 to the required locations. Everything is going to be connected up via a Unifi Network and Unifi POE Switches. There is going to be an iPad located on the wall in the kitchen area and one upstairs near the bedrooms, the cameras need to be visible on there on an easy to use interface. These iPads will also be used to control the Sonos, the Nuki Front Door and the Nest Doorbell.

At this stage no cameras have been selected and so I was hoping someone could provide me with some help on what would be a good set of cameras?

The back of the house looks onto a park / billabong, the front of the house onto the street.

All cables go to a Server room undergroud.

I have attached a floor plan for some guidance with the locations we think we will have marked.

Thank you so much!

 

[mat200]

First of all, I would like to thank everyone on here for the immense amount of knowledge you provide, it is amazing!

I work in the tech space and consider myself pretty in the know when it comes to tech but I realized that with IP cameras I basically know nothing and so I hope I can get some help. My parents are about to finish building their new house and I have been and am responsible for all the tech because their previous house was an absolute disaster. Unfortunately, the group we have used to wire the house and do most of the electrical work are good at that but that is about where it ends. I would call them 'hobby' smart, they will suggest what they have previously installed but do not want to be dangerous and try something they haven't installed before. So when I asked them about Security cameras, they suggested some basic 2MP Reolink or Hikvision cameras which I immediately knew were terrible.

So I have taken it upon myself to organize the cameras and have just asked them to run CAT6 to the required locations. Everything is going to be connected up via a Unifi Network and Unifi POE Switches. There is going to be an iPad located on the wall in the kitchen area and one upstairs near the bedrooms, the cameras need to be visible on there on an easy to use interface. These iPads will also be used to control the Sonos, the Nuki Front Door and the Nest Doorbell.

At this stage no cameras have been selected and so I was hoping someone could provide me with some help on what would be a good set of cameras?

The back of the house looks onto a park / billabong, the front of the house onto the street.

All cables go to a Server room undergroud.

I have attached a floor plan for some guidance with the locations we think we will have marked.

Thank you so much!

View attachment 81741

Welcome @remsta

Q / statement: "So I have taken it upon myself to organize the cameras and have just asked them to run CAT6 to the required locations.

Is the Framing up?
Is the Dry Wall up?
Or is it a different construction materials?

Q / Statement: "So I have taken it upon myself to organize the cameras and have just asked them to run CAT6 to the required locations. "

How high are the locations?

 

[SouthernYankee]

If the green blocks are the cameras, you do not have enough coverage. Yopu are not even close.

1) the front door needs three cameras, one doorbell camera, one pointing at the package drop area, one pointing back to the front door.
2) the garage entrance Needs two cameras pointing out mounted no higher than the top of the garage door.
3) the inside of the garage need two cameras one point at the garage door and one point at the house entrance
4) each entrance to the house must be covered by a camera.
5) each camera must be covered by another camera, If i can destroy a camera it must be covered, recorded by another camera.
6) in my house all public areas inside are covered, kitchen, living room, dining room, halls, game room, den
7) all outside doors are covered by a camera inside, pointing out.
========================================================

My standard welcome to the forum message.

Read Study Plan before spending money
Cameras are for surveillance to get information for after the fact.

Please read the IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes and other items in the IP Cam Talk Wiki. (read on a real computer, not a phone). The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.


Quick start
1) If you do not have a wired monitored alarm system, get that first
2) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras if you need good low light cameras.
3) Start with a good variable focus camera, so you test for the correct lens,lighting, camera placement.
4) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
5) Do not use wifi cameras.
6) Do not use cloud storage
7) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
8) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
9) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
10) Do not use reolink, ring, nest, Arlo, Vivint cameras (they are junk), no cloud cameras
11) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
12) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
13) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
14) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 7ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
15) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
16) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator V3
17) POE list PoE Switch Suggestion List
18) Camera Sensor size, bigger is general better Sensor Size Chart
19) Camera lens size, a bigger number give more range but less field of view. Which Security Camera Lens Size Should I Buy?
20) verify your camera placement, have a friend wearing a hoodie, ball cap and sunglasses looking down approach the house, can you identify them at night ?
21) DO NOT UPGRADE your NVR or camera unless you absolutely have a problem that needs to be fixed and known what you are doing, if you do you will turn it into a brick !!

Cameras to look at
IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED . Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+) - 4MP starlight
.................... Dahua IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED review
IPC-T5442TM-AS ..... Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ - 4MP starlight+
IPC-HDW5442t-ZE .... Dahua IPC-HDW5442T-ZE 4MP Varifocal Turret - Night Perfomance testing -- variable focus 2.7 mm-12mm 4 MP Starlight
IPC-B5442E-ZE ...... Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+ -- variable 2.7mm-12mm bullet
IPC-B5442E-Z4E .... bullet 8mm-32mm variable focus zoom 4MP
IPC-HFW7442H-Z ..... Review - Dahua IPC-HFW7442H-Z 4MP Ultra AI Varifocal Bullet Camera -- 4 MP variable focus AI
IPC-T2347G-LU ...... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera. (DS-2CD2347G1-LU)
IPC-HDW2231R-ZS .... Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal
IPC-HDW2231T-ZS-S2 . Review-OEM IPC-T2231T-ZS Ver 2, 2mp Varifocal Starlight Camera
IPC-HDW5231R-ZE .... Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
IPC-HFW4239T-ASE ... IPC-HFW4239T-ASE
IPCT-HDW5431RE-I ... Review - IP Cam Talk 4 MP IR Fixed Turret Network Camera
IPC-T5241H-AS-PV ... Review-OEM IPC-T5241H-AS-PV 2mp AI active deterrence cam
IPC-T3241-ZAS ...... Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal -- 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal
IPC-HFW2831T-ZS ... Review-Dahua IPC-HFW2831T-ZS 8MP WDR IR Bullet Network Camera -- 8MP Bullet 1/1.8” sensor variable focus.
DS-2CD2325FWD-I
N22AL12 ............ New Dahua N22AL12 Budget Cam w/Starlight -- low cost entry
IPC-T2347G-LU....... Review-Loryta OEM 4MP IPC-T2347G-LU ColorVu Fixed Turret Network 4mm lens & Junction Box -- 4MP ColorVu
.................... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera.

Other dahua 4MP starlight

https://ipcamtalk.com/threads/dahua-4mp-starlight-lineup.42000/#post-388253

My preferred indoor cameras
DS-2CD2442FWD-IW
IPC-K35A Review-Dahua IPC-K35A 3mp Cube Camera
IPC-K42A

If interested in Blue Iris and other setup items see the following post
Newbie Starter Guide to IP Cam System – VPN setup – Computer Hardware – Blue Iris – Dahua Cameras

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Test do not guess

 

[remsta]

Welcome @remsta

Q / statement: "So I have taken it upon myself to organize the cameras and have just asked them to run CAT6 to the required locations.

Is the Framing up?
Is the Dry Wall up?
Or is it a different construction materials?

Q / Statement: "So I have taken it upon myself to organize the cameras and have just asked them to run CAT6 to the required locations. "

How high are the locations?

The house is practically finished, so walls and everything are up - locations are fixed ---- that was probably my mistake for not coming on these forums earlier.

Outside walls are a mix of Cement or Brick.

Regarding height, I have updated the picture above to include heights.

The front garden is behind a locked gate and locked driveway gate.

 

[sebastiantombs]

You'll find the Nest Hello to be a waste and may have a lot of problems being able to integrate it into a system, think NVR or dedicated PC serving as a VMS.

All of the cameras that you specify height for will give you wonderful shots of bald spots, tops of hoodies and tops of ball caps. Cameras need to be no higher than 7.5 feet, say 2 meters, maximum, to be able to get reliable identification video.

 

[mat200]

The house is practically finished, so walls and everything are up - locations are fixed ---- that was probably my mistake for not coming on these forums earlier.

Outside walls are a mix of Cement or Brick.

Regarding height, I have updated the picture above to include heights.

The front garden is behind a locked gate and locked driveway gate.

Hi @remsta

OP noted: "The house is practically finished, so walls and everything are up - locations are fixed ---- that was probably my mistake for not coming on these forums earlier."
Reply: Yes, absolutely 100% correct - you came here too late to make this an easier job. Now we're having to retrofit / fix the original plans.

Heights above ground:
3.6M : Camera covering Driveway down to basement - not ideal
4.6M : Corner of house facing street - not ideal
"At Garage Door" : looking at underground driveway and ramp - looks good, remember to test and confirm, sometimes lights negatively impact the image capture. ( thus why I like 2 cameras covering the driveway )
3.6M : covering walkway - 2 cameras - not ideal
6.6M : 2nd floor covers Rear Teracce - not ideal
3.6M : Covers pool. - not ideal

Basically all the cameras with the exception of the "At Garage Door" camera are too high for the purposes to help get an ID image.

Solution: Run Exterior conduit with appropriate junction boxes down from those locations ( i.e. surface mount ).

Looks like a nice place... I do not see any camera at the front door....

 

[Teken]

I would be interested to see what this home looks like from the ground level. I'm having a hard time visualizing the floor plan on this beautiful home just from a topographic stand point.

 

[remsta]

You'll find the Nest Hello to be a waste and may have a lot of problems being able to integrate it into a system, think NVR or dedicated PC serving as a VMS.

All of the cameras that you specify height for will give you wonderful shots of bald spots, tops of hoodies and tops of ball caps. Cameras need to be no higher than 7.5 feet, say 2 meters, maximum, to be able to get reliable identification video.

We currently have the Nest Hello at the old house and were actually happy to go with something else but after hours of research there was simply no system that was as clean and easy to use as the Nest for the front door. Doorbird was the only one that came close but their camera quality and push notifications going via German servers was a big down side.

Regarding the height, that is a really good point, never really thought about it that way.

I would be interested to see what this home looks like from the ground level. I'm having a hard time visualizing the floor plan on this beautiful home just from a topographic stand point.

No camera at the front door since everything is behind a gate and there are two cameras pointing across the garden from either side, plus the Nest Hello at the front gate.

 

[remsta]

Unfortunately, we cannot move the camera placement. I looked through some of the provided links for camera information but it seems that a lot of the information is from 2018 and before, so I am wondering what the latest suggestions are on the types of cameras we should be looking at?

Below are images of where the cameras will be placed.

 

[mat200]

Unfortunately, we cannot move the camera placement. I looked through some of the provided links for camera information but it seems that a lot of the information is from 2018 and before, so I am wondering what the latest suggestions are on the types of cameras we should be looking at?

Below are images of where the cameras will be placed.

View attachment 82232

View attachment 82233

View attachment 82234

HI,

The Cliff Notes info outside of the camera models is still good.

Go to the Cliff Notes and look at the DORI section and decide what ID distances you need the cameras to function at.
Decide if you need day time, or low light performance.

In post #3 SouthernYankee shared models worth considering today.

 

[Teken]

Unfortunately, we cannot move the camera placement. I looked through some of the provided links for camera information but it seems that a lot of the information is from 2018 and before, so I am wondering what the latest suggestions are on the types of cameras we should be looking at?

Below are images of where the cameras will be placed.

View attachment 82232

View attachment 82233

View attachment 82234

Based on the fantastic 3D concept art of the home. Along with keeping that curb appeal & stealth look. I would install a couple of flush mounted PTZ cameras in the soffit areas that need wider coverage.

In most cases fixed stationary cameras are used and PTZ are incorporated to augment a wider field of view. Today in 2021 with so many high quality vari-focal lens cameras it makes sense to use them vs fixed lens unless that hardware offers better optics.

A corner mounted PTZ in the backyard is a perfect option and use case. Given its a relatively secure area the need for a fixed view is not a huge compromise as you have another in place.

Dahua & Hikvision both offer extremely low light (full colour) hardware. These are the cameras you should consider in their various styles from dome, turret, bullet.

The side of the home where there are two camera positions. As odd as it sounds installing bullet style cameras shouts out in no uncertain terms video surveillance is present and enforced.

Comes down to balancing stealth, aesthetics, and curb appeal in key areas of the property. Only you can determine what feel and look are right. Speaking for myself seeing a whole bunch of pig nose turrets on a million dollar home always makes me want to cry!

Appreciate you sharing the concept art at ground level as the topographic floor plan had me scratching my head.

 

[remsta]

Based on the fantastic 3D concept art of the home. Along with keeping that curb appeal & stealth look. I would install a couple of flush mounted PTZ cameras in the soffit areas that need wider coverage.

In most cases fixed stationary cameras are used and PTZ are incorporated to augment a wider field of view. Today in 2021 with so many high quality vari-focal lens cameras it makes sense to use them vs fixed lens unless that hardware offers better optics.

A corner mounted PTZ in the backyard is a perfect option and use case. Given its a relatively secure area the need for a fixed view is not a huge compromise as you have another in place.

Dahua & Hikvision both offer extremely low light (full colour) hardware. These are the cameras you should consider in their various styles from dome, turret, bullet.

The side of the home where there are two camera positions. As odd as it sounds installing bullet style cameras shouts out in no uncertain terms video surveillance is present and enforced.

Comes down to balancing stealth, aesthetics, and curb appeal in key areas of the property. Only you can determine what feel and look are right. Speaking for myself seeing a whole bunch of pig nose turrets on a million dollar home always makes me want to cry!

Appreciate you sharing the concept art at ground level as the topographic floor plan had me scratching my head.

Thank you so much for your reply - If there something specific that I should be looking for with the Turret cameras? i.e. I just pulled up this one but there seem to be hundreds 4 MP Outdoor IR Varifocal Outdoor Network Turret Camera

In addition, I am currently trying to determine if I go Blue Iris, Hikvision NVR or like a Synology Surveillance station (which I used today at my house). Downside to Blue Iris it seems is that I need to organize a PC, install windows, Install Blue Iris and get that working (all remotely as I live in a different state and with COVID can't travel). Where-as a NVR seems like it will be plug and play and "Just work?". The cameras will be viewed on iPads in the living room on the wall and upstairs on the wall as well as phones if needed.

Thank you!!

 

[wittaj]

Great house, so saving a few buck on a camera system probably isn't something you are going to do LOL.

A NVR is a stripped down computer....and isn't true plug-n-play like people believe...unless you want crappy night video LOL and leave everything on default. You still have to dial the cameras into your setting. At that point, then you have to decide which gives the better flexibility and options for your situation. Many of us are Blue Iris users and will never go back. Many of us are NVR users and will never switch.

When I was looking at NVRs, once I realized that not all NVRs are created equal, and once I priced out a good one, it was cheaper to buy a refurbished computer than an NVR.

Many of us here purchase these refurbished computers and are business class computers that have come off lease and have Windows 10 professional on them. The one I bought I kid you not I could not tell that it was a refurbished unit - not a speck of dust or dents or scratches on it. It appeared to me like everything was replaced and I would assume just the motherboard with the intel processor is what was from the original unit. I went with the lowest end processor on the WIKI list as it was the cheapest and it runs my system fine. Could probably get going for $200 or so.

 

[remsta]

Great house, so saving a few buck on a camera system probably isn't something you are going to do LOL.

A NVR is a stripped down computer....and isn't true plug-n-play like people believe...unless you want crappy night video LOL and leave everything on default. You still have to dial the cameras into your setting. At that point, then you have to decide which gives the better flexibility and options for your situation. Many of us are Blue Iris users and will never go back. Many of us are NVR users and will never switch.

When I was looking at NVRs, once I realized that not all NVRs are created equal, and once I priced out a good one, it was cheaper to buy a refurbished computer than an NVR.

Many of us here purchase these refurbished computers and are business class computers that have come off lease and have Windows 10 professional on them. The one I bought I kid you not I could not tell that it was a refurbished unit - not a speck of dust or dents or scratches on it. It appeared to me like everything was replaced and I would assume just the motherboard with the intel processor is what was from the original unit. I went with the lowest end processor on the WIKI list as it was the cheapest and it runs my system fine. Could probably get going for $200 or so.

Interesting - do you think an Intel NUC would do it? I would like to keep everything in the single rack that we are installing. .
Intel NUC mini PC i7-8650U 4.2GHz 2xDDR4 SODIMM M.2 SSD 2xHDMI 2xDisplays GbE LAN WiFi BT 4xUSB3.0 vPro for DS POS

Or something like this: Dell Optiplex 7050 SFF i7-6700 3.4GHz,8GB RAM, 256GB SSD,Win10 pro & office2016 | eBay

How is the Blue Iris iPad App? Does it send notifications etc. Is it reliable? Can my parents simply open the app on the iPad and review video if needed?

 

[Teken]

Thank you so much for your reply - If there something specific that I should be looking for with the Turret cameras? i.e. I just pulled up this one but there seem to be hundreds 4 MP Outdoor IR Varifocal Outdoor Network Turret Camera

In addition, I am currently trying to determine if I go Blue Iris, Hikvision NVR or like a Synology Surveillance station (which I used today at my house). Downside to Blue Iris it seems is that I need to organize a PC, install windows, Install Blue Iris and get that working (all remotely as I live in a different state and with COVID can't travel). Where-as a NVR seems like it will be plug and play and "Just work?". The cameras will be viewed on iPads in the living room on the wall and upstairs on the wall as well as phones if needed.

Thank you!!

For whatever reason the American side doesn’t show the G2 version of this ColorVu system: 4 MP ColorVu Fixed Turret Outdoor Network Camera

Regardless, if it must be turret the G2 version is the way to go. Even if you can only purchase the G1 that is in the link it’s a fantastic low light (colour) camera.

I have several of these same ColorVu domes as seen here on order: 4 MP ColorVu Fixed Dome Network Camera

Offers a much better stealth look and pleasing to the eye view in public / private spaces.

This is the PTZ unit that balances size, performance, and features. This unit can be surface mounted into the soffit:

Value Series 4 MP Indoor/Outdoor 25× Network IR PTZ Camera

Hikvision DS-2DE4A425IW-DE(S6) 4 MP Network IR PTZ Camera adopts 1/2.8" progressive scan CMOS chip. With the 25 × optical zoom lens, the camera offers more details over expansive areas. This series of cameras can be widely used for wide ranges of high-definition, such as rivers, forests, roads...

us.hikvision.com

Before you commit to any camera stand in each zone and record what you see and want to see. Take pictures as if there’s a fixed position vs a PTZ which allows you to pan, tilt, zoom. Remember, a vari-focal camera is intended to be adjusted (zoomed) at the final target area.

It’s not intended nor capable of adjusting its FOV just the target point.

This is why fixed position cameras must balance the target area vs the overall view. PTZ’s assist in tracking and roaming to cover a larger target zone not just target area.

Having the ability to zoom in while panning is critical if a fixed position camera isn’t using the correct lens. 2.8 lens will give you a nice wide area but very little detail at further distance. 4-12 mm will give you better detail but sacrifices area coverage.

This is why selecting not just the type, technology, but lens is critical for that money shot. Each camera should be considered unique in what you intend to capture.

The hard part is trying to balance over view, area coverage, and forensic object detection such as plates & faces.

The most basic test you can do is climb on a ladder. Take pictures as to what can be seen vs on the ground. Take a license plate and place it at defined intervals. You’ll see right away how very hard it is to view the same at night vs day.

I use several fake heads that are painted to reflect different ethnic backgrounds. They are placed at various points with hats, scarves, glasses, to replicate what could be viewed using different cameras and lens.

 

[remsta]

One thing that has happened in the past is our cars have been broken into on the street - whilst I feel that the cameras located on either side of the front of the house could probably pick this up, they were going to be Turrets so they wouldn't move.

Would it be a good idea to add one additional camera to the outside edge of the gatehouse - yellow arrow. - anyone have a good PTZ suggestion?

And looking at these images, I am thinking I probably should be getting 2.8mm all around to get the coverage of the yard.

 

[wittaj]

@remsta - From the other thread where you asked the question...

Get this one from @EMPIRETECANDY a member on this forum (if you buy somewhere else it probably will not have autotrack). This is the best "consumer" PTZ below $600 and has the best MP/sensor combo unless you go for a more expensive one with a larger sensor.

https://www.amazon.com/Loryta-SD49225XA-HNR-Starlight-Network-Tracking/dp/B081RJJQT4/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=ptz&m=A329YQ83EBQGJF&qid=1613012875&s=merchant-items&sr=1-1

If turrets are zoomed in appropriately to the location being monitored, they can be fine and will pick them up. The problem is folks expecting to get great pictures from a 2.8mm wide angle camera and upset that a person 20 feet away cannot be identified or a usable picture to send to the police.

 

[Teken]

One thing that has happened in the past is our cars have been broken into on the street - whilst I feel that the cameras located on either side of the front of the house could probably pick this up, they were going to be Turrets so they wouldn't move.

Would it be a good idea to add one additional camera to the outside edge of the gatehouse - yellow arrow. - anyone have a good PTZ suggestion?

And looking at these images, I am thinking I probably should be getting 2.8mm all around to get the coverage of the yard.

The one I linked above would offer you that ability.

 

[remsta]

Can someone tell me what the main difference between these two cameras are?

4 MP ColorVu Fixed Turret Outdoor Network Camera

Hikvision’s DS-2CD2347G1-L(U) ColorVu Outdoor Fixed Turret Camera features an ƒ/1.0 lens aperture for maximum light gathering capability to provide full color imaging in extremely dark settings.

us.hikvision.com

DS-2CD2347G2-L(U)

Hikvision DS-2CD2347G2-L(U) 4 MP ColorVu Fixed Turret Network Camera

www.hikvision.com

 

[Teken]

The newer G2 offers better low light performance. It also now includes vehicle & human detection filtering. G2 also has WDR of 130 vs G1’s 120.

Both are fantastic low light colour cameras so comes down to price and availability.