Human / Face detection

[CCTVCam]

Generally, no, there's no direct ISO adjustment that can be made in these cams. You do have gain adjustment which can be used in a similar way with a similar result of increased noise at higher levels.

Likewise, no direct aperture adjustment. Some cams do have an "iris adjustment" (e.g., 5241E-Z12) but not commonly and in some cases it's not a physical adjustment; rather, a digital simulation. In either case, not an adjustment that's practically used much other than maybe some specific cases. Most of the IR or color cams that you're looking at won't have either.

Yep the OP needs to think video.

For video there's no such thing as ISO but Gain. It's pretty much the same thing. What Gain does is electronically amplify the signal from the sensor to retreive more detail ie the weak electronic signal representing the picture that would otherwise be lost. The disadvantage of gain is there's no way for the camera to know what is valid signal and what is spurious induced current (at these levels we're talking very weak signals for both). The result is both get amplified and become a part of the picture. The part of the signal that represents bits of the picture, when amplified enable you to see detail you'd otherwise be unable to see and thus information that would be discarded on playback as being too weak. The disadvanatge, is the more you up the Gain, the more you amplify the false induced signals and currents in the sensor and these appear in the final picture as Grain ie dots, coloured aberations or in the case of movement, ghosting as decaying signals from where objects used to be are also amplified and still exist long after they should have been discarded. This is why too much Gain is bad. However, a little gain can help. It's all about moderation and accepting Gain cannot perform miracles. All Video cameras not just CCTV use Gain instead of ISO but they're much the same the thing for practical purposes. I'm sure a camera expert will jump in from the internet and tell me I'm wrong, but it's for practical purposes not exact theory.

Aperture is fixed on most CCTV cameras as these are simple cameras with small brains.

Also, you cannot disregard shutter speeds effect on picture at night. Even a poor camera on a poor sensor can look decent with a slow shutter speed and plenty of balanced gain to let lots of light in. That's how marketers sell many poorer cameras. However, the 1st time something moves it will be blurred or ghosting and unrecognisable. You need to run a fast shutter even at night to freeze motion. I run 4ms on both my cameras which equates to around 1/240th from memory. Below this I've found a person can blur. However, to do this I need some background light at low level (I use a 5w led wall light with my cameras) and some gain (=50) which is sufficient to give a clean image with enough light but doesn't cause artefects, Grain etc (It will amplify aretefacts with insufficient light. Hence the importance of getting the balance right).

I'd take Wittaj's advice and look at a 5442 as 1st purchase. Buy one varifocal and test it to see if you're satisfied before buying others. You can also use it in different places to test the focal length required although varifocals always give more flexibility for only slightly moire expense. Also note there are a lot of 5442 models and some older ones are on smaller sensors. I leave it to others to advise the best models in the range. The 4Kt's are very capable at night but suffer quite a shallow dof (focus).

One last point, I hope the installer used solid copper POE cable and not CCA (Copper coated aluminium).

 

[CCTVCam]

BTW if you're using BI I prefer to offload AI to the PC. CPAI will process quicky enough and reliably on my 11th Gen i5 with 2 cameras in around 250ms. Not blazing, but it never misses anything. To be homest, CPAI only really needs to be used on cameras in situations prone to false alerts.

 

[Mike A.]

I did that, but I must be looking for the clips in the wrong place. If i say "all files" there are only three or four clips. If I choose "alerts" there are a bunch from when cameras were set to just motion. But none come through once I change like you said to onvif. I must have something wrong in the cameras I will check tomorrow. thanks again.

How are you testing? To test external triggers, you need to actually trigger the cam. The "Trigger now" function in BI won't create external events.

In the cam under Setting > Event, you should have Video Detection off. Smart Motion detection off. Under Smart Plan, click on the light bulb so that it turns orange. Under IVS set up the rules as you want them. Make sure they have a checkmark next to them to indicate that they're active.

 

[35s77]

Yep the OP needs to think video.

For video there's no such thing as ISO but Gain. It's pretty much the same thing. What Gain does is electronically amplify the signal from the sensor to retreive more detail ie the weak electronic signal representing the picture that would otherwise be lost. The disadvantage of gain is there's no way for the camera to know what is valid signal and what is spurious induced current (at these levels we're talking very weak signals for both). The result is both get amplified and become a part of the picture. The part of the signal that represents bits of the picture, when amplified enable you to see detail you'd otherwise be unable to see and thus information that would be discarded on playback as being too weak. The disadvanatge, is the more you up the Gain, the more you amplify the false induced signals and currents in the sensor and these appear in the final picture as Grain ie dots, coloured aberations or in the case of movement, ghosting as decaying signals from where objects used to be are also amplified and still exist long after they should have been discarded. This is why too much Gain is bad. However, a little gain can help. It's all about moderation and accepting Gain cannot perform miracles. All Video cameras not just CCTV use Gain instead of ISO but they're much the same the thing for practical purposes. I'm sure a camera expert will jump in from the internet and tell me I'm wrong, but it's for practical purposes not exact theory.

Aperture is fixed on most CCTV cameras as these are simple cameras with small brains.

Also, you cannot disregard shutter speeds effect on picture at night. Even a poor camera on a poor sensor can look decent with a slow shutter speed and plenty of balanced gain to let lots of light in. That's how marketers sell many poorer cameras. However, the 1st time something moves it will be blurred or ghosting and unrecognisable. You need to run a fast shutter even at night to freeze motion. I run 4ms on both my cameras which equates to around 1/240th from memory. Below this I've found a person can blur. However, to do this I need some background light at low level (I use a 5w led wall light with my cameras) and some gain (=50) which is sufficient to give a clean image with enough light but doesn't cause artefects, Grain etc (It will amplify aretefacts with insufficient light. Hence the importance of getting the balance right).

I'd take Wittaj's advice and look at a 5442 as 1st purchase. Buy one varifocal and test it to see if you're satisfied before buying others. You can also use it in different places to test the focal length required although varifocals always give more flexibility for only slightly moire expense. Also note there are a lot of 5442 models and some older ones are on smaller sensors. I leave it to others to advise the best models in the range. The 4Kt's are very capable at night but suffer quite a shallow dof (focus).

One last point, I hope the installer used solid copper POE cable and not CCA (Copper coated aluminium).

Ah, right....gain. Thank you. Yeah I noticed 1/120th was still giving pretty good bluring, I will try higher tonight. When you say the aperature is fixed - you mean fixed as in not adjustable (always auto) right? Its not open at its widest aperature all the time though.

Yes he used decent cable, all though he didnt run cat6 to two of the low resolution cameras which really puzzled me. I bought 1000 feet of cat6 though when i bought the new cameras so I will replace it if necessary.

I got a good mix of cameras and have been really happy with the ones I have got set up so far.

 

[35s77]

How are you testing? To test external triggers, you need to actually trigger the cam. The "Trigger now" function in BI won't create external events.

In the cam under Setting > Event, you should have Video Detection off. Smart Motion detection off. Under Smart Plan, click on the light bulb so that it turns orange. Under IVS set up the rules as you want them. Make sure they have a checkmark next to them to indicate that they're active.

Yes testing by physically walking into view. I must be looking in the wrong spot for the clips is all I can think, or there is some global setting I havent switched. I will keep playing with it.

 

[Mike A.]

Yes testing by physically walking into view. I must be looking in the wrong spot for the clips is all I can think, or there is some global setting I havent switched. I will keep playing with it.

Not that I can think of. Clips/alerts should show up in the usual place in the same way. You're just triggering things differently to start them.

Look in the BI log and see if you're getting some entries from the cam that look something like:

0 10/3/2023 1:01:29.530 PM NW ONVIF Event: RuleEngine/LineDetector/Crossed
3 10/3/2023 1:01:29.582 PM NW EXTERNAL (RuleEngine/LineDetector/Crossed)
0 10/3/2023 1:01:31.170 PM NW ONVIF Event: RuleEngine/LineDetector/Crossed

If so, then BI is receiving the triggers and it's likely something related to profiles/schedule/alerts/recording.

If not, then BI isn't picking up the external triggers from the cam. In that case, check that the triggers actually are working at the cam. You can use a SD card to record to test or have someone else walk it while you watch the live view. Or download ONVIF Device Manager and you can see events that the cam is generating there.

Maybe post a capture of your IVS screen.

I did have a couple of T5442T-ZE cams where the ONVIF triggers wouldn't work with BI until after I did a firmware upgrade but wait on that for now.

 

[35s77]

so in the log I am getting "Events: Subscription 8000ffff" constant rotating between cams errors....just a constant cycle of them. I unchecked the "get ONVIF trigger events" and the errors stopped. Does this need to be checked to get the clips/alerts?

I have three types of cameras set up. A 4k color, two variable focal 4mp, and a 2.8 4mp....i doubt they all need a firmware update?

so i must have something not set right in the cameras, ill go through it again.

 

[Mike A.]

Yes, you need to have that checked; otherwise, BI doesn't listen for the external ONVIF triggers.

As a quick test, check that back on for one cam. On that cam go to Setting > Network > Access Platform > ONVIF and toggle authentication off. See if that works. It should stop the errors at least.

That just disables authentication for the ONVIF user. Better to fix it further... In the cam, look under Setting > System > Account > ONVIF User check that you have a valid account there with the same name/password that you're using for the cam in BI. Change the password to what it should be to make sure that it's the same. Should be able to toggle ONVIF authentication back on then and have it working.

If not working after the above, do a Find/inspect in BI for that cam and try it. Should be good and working without those errors.

 

[35s77]

Yes, you need to have that checked; otherwise, BI doesn't listen for the external ONVIF triggers.

As a quick test, check that back on for one cam. On that cam go to Setting > Network > Access Platform > ONVIF and toggle authentication off. See if that works. It should stop the errors at least.

That just disables authentication for the ONVIF user. Better to fix it further... In the cam, look under Setting > System > Account > ONVIF User check that you have a valid account there with the same name/password that you're using for the cam in BI. Change the password to what it should be to make sure that it's the same. Should be able to toggle ONVIF authentication back on then and have it working.

If not working after the above, do a Find/inspect in BI for that cam and try it. Should be good and working without those errors.

GD thank you. Working as it should. I really appreciate it. Got almost everything from me walking around, need to play with it and add some trip wires.

I've seen video's of people drawing zig zag trip lines but i cant seem to be able to. Is there a trick to it? I cant seem to draw more than a zig and a zag and then it wont let me put anymore down? If that makes sense.

 

[Mike A.]

Good deal. Glad that you got it working.

Depends on the cam. For cams with the older web interface you should be able to draw the tripwire zigzag lines freely wherever you want. I've not had any trouble with those.

For those with the new interface, yeah, a lot of us have that same problem. As a workaround try drawing the first two lines like the axis of a graph to the side and bottom to define the outside extents of where you want to draw the lines. Then you should be able to draw more within the limits of those two lines. If that makes sense. Someone else posted another way of doing it that seemed easier but I can't recall what that was now.

 

[35s77]

Good deal. Glad that you got it working.

Depends on the cam. For cams with the older web interface you should be able to draw the tripwire zigzag lines freely wherever you want. I've not had any trouble with those.

For those with the new interface, yeah, a lot of us have that same problem. As a workaround try drawing the first two lines like the axis of a graph to the side and bottom to define the outside extents of where you want to draw the lines. Then you should be able to draw more within the limits of those two lines. If that makes sense. Someone else posted another way of doing it that seemed easier but I can't recall what that was now.

i see what you mean, worked great, thank you again.

 

[35s77]

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone. The combination of better cameras, variable focal lengths, and blue iris really made a HUGE difference.

I got all the cameras up, vlans and vpns working, remote access to blue iris working on desktop and phones, trigger events working reliably with zero false alarms. Only thing left to do is get the ptz tracking with spotter cams and dial in the night time exposure on the cameras.

Just all around, everything is at least 20x better.

 

[wittaj]

That is great to hear.

Maybe you can sell the crap the professional installer sold you on ebay

All kidding aside, we hate to hear that a "professional" did this to you and that was one of the reasons why this forum was started - to demonstrate and show people how we can do this ourselves and save a lot of money and get better equipment and results than what most of the "professionals" offer. Sadly we have seen too many come here in a similar situation to you - they sold them cheap cams on less than ideal/MP sensors and simply left everything on default/auto settings.

 

[35s77]

That is great to hear.

Maybe you can sell the crap the professional installer sold you on ebay

All kidding aside, we hate to hear that a "professional" did this to you and that was one of the reasons why this forum was started - to demonstrate and show people how we can do this ourselves and save a lot of money and get better equipment and results than what most of the "professionals" offer. Sadly we have seen too many come here in a similar situation to you - they sold them cheap cams on less than ideal/MP sensors and simply left everything on default/auto settings.

one question I do have about triggering the PTZ. I found your thread and followed it, was able to get it working and it seems to work great. The question I have is how do you configure it if the spotting camera has a wider view than the PTZ? Like my main spotter cam is the 180 degree one. I was thinking I would set up different trip wires on the 180 cam that would roughly correspond to different presets in the PTZ but I don't see how to get that working? Thanks

 

[wittaj]

That is still a work in progress with BI.

In the past, and when I created that thread regarding spotter cams, the only way to accomplish that was with more cameras - either physical cameras or clone cameras using BI motion.

With BI update 5.7.5, it started the process of allowing us to see the IVS rules being triggered in the camera that is being fed to BI.




So it is close, but still not quite check box ready. But if you have the time, this thread talks about how to go about figuring it out:

Separate IVS Rules for Cloned Spotter Camera - Is it possible?

Using BI (5.7.7.18) with a Dahua PTZ and a Dahua spotter (5242) cam. The PTZ Web 5 camera IVS rules are set for people detection only. The spotter IVS camera rules (Web 4) are set for both people and vehicle. When the spotter cam triggers, the PTZ zooms into the end of the street and follows...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Mike A.]

You have some things showing in your image that I don't have. Like the rule names. Is that something that you created by building your own under that config section?

 

[35s77]

I think I follow what you are saying, just make a bunch of tripwires in the main camera web UI, with names that correspond to the PTZ presets, clone the camera a bunch of times, add those clones to the group, and then make the clone only listen for one tripwire each? But like Mike I don't see how to name the rules in a way that they show as an attribute.

 

[35s77]

maybe i see how to rename the attribute, but i dont see how to tell which is which to rename.

 

[Mike A.]

You can make your own attributes and name things however you want in the BI side. But I don't see any way to name the rules which would correspond to that in any of the Dahua cams that I have. Also unfortunately, none of the AI cams that I have will show events in the log so I can't see what they report as events. I can see what BI and ODM show for each event but I don't see anything like that beyond just the type of rule (motion, line crossing, intrusion box, etc.).

 

[CCTVCam]

Ah, right....gain. Thank you. Yeah I noticed 1/120th was still giving pretty good bluring, I will try higher tonight. When you say the aperature is fixed - you mean fixed as in not adjustable (always auto) right? Its not open at its widest aperature all the time though.

CCTV cameras are simple cameras. As I understand it on most the aperture is fixed and the lighting differences are fixed by exposure adjustment.