I like things Virtual.

Tayschrenn

Tayschrenn

Young grasshopper
Aug 20, 2019
52
11
Michigan, USA
No, seriously - I am a VMWare/Hyper-V Senior Engineer and love me some virtual systems.

But, physical security at my home is a growing priority.

I picked up some Blink cameras (5 pack) aaaand am shipping them back this week, most likely.

Been looking around a lot, and I think this is the route I'm going:

  • Optiplex Micro PC
    • Core i3-7300
    • 8gb DDR4
    • m.2 OS drive
    • Blue Iris
    • Enterprise 3.5 or 2.5 storage drive
      • Intention is to script a nightly archive to my Synology NAS
  • (2) Dahua 8MP Bullet PoE - North East / South East corners of my home
    • These will be angled to cross, centered on the top of my U shaped drive
  • (1) Dahua 8MP Turret - rear patio of my house
    • This will cover the only other entrance to my home, including the sidewalk approach
  • (???) Less expensive WiFi cameras for my wife's chicken coup/runs
  • Unifi 8-port switch
    • Probably going with the 4-poe 60W version for cost savings, I have PoE injectors for my Unifi wireless APs

My big unknown is the overall setup/mounting and wiring i'll have to do. I'm comfortable with 90% of the configuration side, but running Cat6 in my attic and out my eves will be a new task for me =)

I am still getting the CFO approval on the Dahua side - Amcrest and Reolink do have competitive options to me, more so as they have 8MP Wireles, which would be a MUCH easier deployment for my Patio, vs running a conduit for ethernet under my walkway.

Anyways, look forward to digging into the forums more!
​
 
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looney2ns said:
Welcome.
Study this from a real computer: Cliff Notes
Study this as well: Choosing Hardware for Blue Iris | IP Cam Talk
If you care about night vision, don't chase megapixels.
Avoid:
Wifi cams
Reolink. Wink, Arlo, Nest, Ring, etc junk.
Cloud based anything.
Amcrest is rebadged Dahua, usually with some features stripped out.
Read the many reviews here.
Click to expand...
Thanks - I did go through the Cliff Notes, and the hardware should be fine for my use case. I already have the optiplex, and the low-power is a win for where I intend on physically locating this. I actually am considering using an Enterprise 2.5" in the case itself (i.e a 2tb Constellation) otherwise i'll go a Skyhawk 3.5" external.

I'll take the advice and just run cables; I'm 98% certain I can borrow tools from my office, and we have poles/tape/etc for that. Just need to not be lazy about it =D

My thoughts for cameras are thus:
Ideally I'd want a 6mm version of the IPC-HFW1831E - waiting to hear if Empire is able to source those =) -- my distance is just far enough that the 4mm would be a bit blurry; but I don't need wide angle for the camera(s)

Then I'd go with a single IPC-HDW4831EM-ASE which would give a great 'up close' security camera with good night vision.

Do you need GbE for 4k, or would 10/100 be enough on the PoE switch? They're cheaper than a full GbE, and I can use a dumb switch in front of a VLAN port on the uplink switch, assuming it's a GbE uplink. Otherwise I'll find one I can setup LACP with for additional throughput on the streams. I have a nice Juniper for my core if I need it, it just isn't PoE cries

A question for the room at large though: Audio -- what's the best way to record audio? Are the built in decent enough or would it behoove me to invest in some form of dedicated audio recording (mainly for the up close camera)

Thanks for the warm welcome and great advice!
 
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:welcome:
----------------------------
It is a snap to jam any wifi system...
I assume from your camera choice you do not expect much night recording or you have a lot of light.

Read,study, plan before spending money.
----------------------------
My standard welcome to the forum message.

Please read the cliff notes and other items in the wiki. The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) | IP Cam Talk in the wiki also.

Quick start
1) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras or ICPT Night eye cameras (https://store.ipcamtalk.com/) if you need good low light cameras.
2) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
3) Do not use wifi cameras.
4) Do not use cloud storage
5) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
6) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
7) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
8) Do not use reolink, ring, nest cameras (they are junk)
9) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
10) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
11) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
12) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 8ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
13) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
14) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator V3

Cameras to look at
IPC-HDW2231R-ZS Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal
IPC-HDW5231-ZE Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
IPC-HFW4239T-ASE IPC-HFW4239T-ASE
IPC-T5442TM-AS Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+)
IPCT-HDW5431RE-I Review - IP Cam Talk 4 MP IR Fixed Turret Network Camera
DS-2CD2325FWD-I

My preferred indoor cameras
DS-2CD2442FWD-IW
IPC-K35A https://ipcamtalk.com/threads/review-dahua-ipc-k35a-3mp-cube-camera.37581/#post-373517


Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Test do not guess
 
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SouthernYankee said:
:welcome:
----------------------------
It is a snap to jam any wifi system...
I assume from your camera choice you do not expect much night recording or you have a lot of light.

Read,study, plan before spending money.
----------------------------
My standard welcome to the forum message.

Please read the cliff notes and other items in the wiki. The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) | IP Cam Talk in the wiki also.

Quick start
1) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras or ICPT Night eye cameras (https://store.ipcamtalk.com/) if you need good low light cameras.
2) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
3) Do not use wifi cameras.
4) Do not use cloud storage
5) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
6) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
7) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
8) Do not use reolink, ring, nest cameras (they are junk)
9) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
10) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
11) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
12) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 8ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
13) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
14) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator V3

Cameras to look at
IPC-HDW2231R-ZS Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal
IPC-HDW5231-ZE Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
IPC-HFW4239T-ASE IPC-HFW4239T-ASE
IPC-T5442TM-AS Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+)
IPCT-HDW5431RE-I Review - IP Cam Talk 4 MP IR Fixed Turret Network Camera
DS-2CD2325FWD-I

My preferred indoor cameras
DS-2CD2442FWD-IW
IPC-K35A Review-Dahua IPC-K35A 3mp Cube Camera


Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Test do not guess
Click to expand...
Thanks! You're spot on - night is important but not critical for the bullet location(s) -- clear viewing at a distance is far more important. i.e. a car driving at around 30m away from the camera(s) I'd like to get the license plate of, in daylight.

Which is why the 6mm version of the dahua is what I was going for; it looks like it's better than the 4mm for such distance
 
I will never again buy a bullet style camera for outdoor use. Unless you are in a spider-free zone, you should stay with turret (eyeball) style enclosures.

The overhanging shades on bullet cams provide a place from which spiders will string webs out across the area in front of the lens and any built-in IR illuminators.

Because the web is slightly away from the lens, it can be seen, moving in the breeze, causing endless motion alerts from the affected cameras.

You'll be cleaning webs off of the cameras areas once per day. Some cameras may be easily reached, others difficult. You do not want to be up on a ladder sweeping away spider webs every day!

Domes are also bad outdoors. They get dust or worse on the dome and they can be damaged by UV light if the sun can reach them.

Go with turret style if at all possible.

Also, consider using more lower megapixel cameras instead of fewer high megapixel units. The low light performance of the high pixel-count cameras is usually very bad. And the higher pixel count seems to mean more aggressive image compression, which ends up reducing the image quality such that the lower pixel count cameras can sometimes deliver better image quality, especially in low light.

More lower pixel count cameras can give you better view angles and optical magnification (think zoom) than what you might get with fewer cameras trying to cover the same areas.

I think people often feel that they can use just a few cameras to cover their property if they go with high pixel count units. But depending on the situation, you may be better off with more cameras, placed and zoomed to cover the areas more completely, and providing more angles of view of the same subjects.

And keep in mind that to double the actual resolution, you must quadruple the number of pixels because it's the linear count of pixels that determines resolution.

A 4MP camera has only 1.414 times the linear resolution of a 2MP camera. And that is only true if the optics are good enough to make those pixels really count, the compression doesn't destroy the quality, and those smaller photosites can be fed with enough extra light to compensate for their smaller surface area.

Further, the smaller photosites cannot "hold as many electrons" (the so-called "full well capacity"). So with smaller photosites comes worse dynamic range because the upper limit of charge carriers any given sensel can hold is a smaller number. So the "resolution" of brightnesses goes down.
 
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J Sigmo said:
I will never again buy a bullet style camera for outdoor use. Unless you are in a spider-free zone, you should stay with turret (eyeball) style enclosures.

The overhanging shades on bullet cams provide a place from which spiders will string webs out across the area in front of the lens and any built-in IR illuminators.

Because the web is slightly away from the lens, it can be seen, moving in the breeze, causing endless motion alerts from the affected cameras.

You'll be cleaning webs off of the cameras areas once per day. Some cameras may be easily reached, others difficult. You do not want to be up on a ladder sweeping away spider webs every day!

Domes are also bad outdoors. They get dust or worse on the dome and they can be damaged by UV light if the sun can reach them.

Go with turret style if at all possible.

Also, consider using more lower megapixel cameras instead of fewer high megapixel units. The low light performance of the high pixel-count cameras is usually very bad. And the higher pixel count seems to mean more aggressive image compression, which ends up reducing the image quality such that the lower pixel count cameras can sometimes deliver better image quality, especially in low light.

More lower pixel count cameras can give you better view angles and optical magnification (think zoom) than what you might get with fewer cameras trying to cover the same areas.

I think people often feel that they can use just a few cameras to cover their property if they go with high pixel count units. But depending on the situation, you may be better off with more cameras, placed and zoomed to cover the areas more completely, and providing more angles of view of the same subjects.

And keep in mind that to double the actual resolution, you must quadruple the number of pixels because it's the linear count of pixels that determines resolution.

A 4MP camera has only 1.414 times the linear resolution of a 2MP camera. And that is only true if the optics are good enough to make those pixels really count, the compression doesn't destroy the quality, and those smaller photosites can be fed with enough extra light to compensate for their smaller surface area.

Further, the smaller photosites cannot "hold as many electrons" (the so-called "full well capacity"). So with smaller photosites comes worse dynamic range because the upper limit of charge carriers any given sensel can hold is a smaller number. So the "resolution" of brightnesses goes down.
Click to expand...
That's a good point on the bullets. I haven't found any turrets that can get the quality at the distance I need.

I'm not trying for wide angle to cover greater area, I'm actually only going for a certain area I know I'll capture a license Plate at, but I physically don't have anything close to the spot from which to mount a camera.

My intention is exactly what you advise, adding additional cameras to the other corners of the house as budget permits. For now, I'm covering the main approaches.

I'll glance through the forum and see if anyone has any ideas on distance resolutions
 
Make sure to read the Wiki and the Cliff notes therein.

There are some excellent tools to simulate your property and show what camera positions and what lens focal lengths (for a given sensor size) will give the angle of view necessary to achieve the DORI values you need, but I have not used them. I believe the one site people often recommend for that requires a subscription of some sort, but uses Google earth imagery of your actual property to do the analysis.

Further, there are quite a few threads here devoted entirely to LPR (license plate reading), and lots of great help from folks, recommending certain cameras and settings for exactly that. License plate reading is a specialized application. People generally set up cameras just for LPR along with other cameras adjusted more for general viewing.

You're on the right track, and have found the right place to get help and specialized advice.
 
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J Sigmo said:
Make sure to read the Wiki and the Cliff notes therein.

There are some excellent tools to simulate your property and show what camera positions and what lens focal lengths (for a given sensor size) will give the angle of view necessary to achieve the DORI values you need, but I have not used them. I believe the one site people often recommend for that requires a subscription of some sort, but uses Google earth imagery of your actual property to do the analysis.

Further, there are quite a few threads here devoted entirely to LPR (license plate reading), and lots of great help from folks, recommending certain cameras and settings for exactly that. License plate reading is a specialized application. People generally set up cameras just for LPR along with other cameras adjusted more for general viewing.

You're on the right track, and have found the right place to get help and specialized advice.
Click to expand...
Tool is free for up to 4 cams.
IPVM Camera Calculator V3
Be sure to go here for LPR.
LPR
 
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And if you want to stay virtual I created a post documenting my adventures with BI and xcp-ng. Very happy with the results.
 
J Sigmo said:
Make sure to read the Wiki and the Cliff notes therein.

There are some excellent tools to simulate your property and show what camera positions and what lens focal lengths (for a given sensor size) will give the angle of view necessary to achieve the DORI values you need, but I have not used them. I believe the one site people often recommend for that requires a subscription of some sort, but uses Google earth imagery of your actual property to do the analysis.

Further, there are quite a few threads here devoted entirely to LPR (license plate reading), and lots of great help from folks, recommending certain cameras and settings for exactly that. License plate reading is a specialized application. People generally set up cameras just for LPR along with other cameras adjusted more for general viewing.

You're on the right track, and have found the right place to get help and specialized advice.
Click to expand...
I get this warm fuzzy nerd feeling whenever I read responses or threads here.

You're all such awesome nerds.
biggen said:
And if you want to stay virtual I created a post documenting my adventures with BI and xcp-ng. Very happy with the results.
Click to expand...
That's very good information. I'll be using vmware, so will make sure to verify pass through. Though honestly I could just run it on the box, it's not going to do anything else. If I went that route, I'd use an actual server, and my goal is minimal power consumption.
 
Tayschrenn said:
I get this warm fuzzy nerd feeling whenever I read responses or threads here.

You're all such awesome nerds.

That's very good information. I'll be using vmware, so will make sure to verify pass through. Though honestly I could just run it on the box, it's not going to do anything else. If I went that route, I'd use an actual server, and my goal is minimal power consumption.
Click to expand...

Unless you are really underpowered, I don't think you will need to worry about passthrough. It's more trouble than its worth.
 
I've bought:
  • (2)IPC-HFW2831T-ZS
    • (Edit: Bought from EmpireTech!)
  • (1)IPC-HDW4831EM-ASE (4mm)
    • (Edit: Bought from EmpireTech!)
  • (2)N-SW
  • BlueIris (From IPCamTalk!)

However, I found - to my dismay - that the N-SW is not able to power the Dahua cameras I bought. It only outputs 24v Passive, which is fine for my AC-Lite APs.

I'm trying to avoid wiring in an attic outlet, and so am looking for insight into Pass-through POE Switches, as I also had my PoE Switch die I'm down to just using my NON PoE Juniper for my Core switch.

The N-SW I can power using a PoE Injector I have, but in turn will need a PoE+ Injector for whatever passthrough I want.

I found an OdiySurveil passthrough which looks perfect

But it in turn needs a PoE+ (802.3AT) source which I don't currently have, and can't find one for under $40; which at that point, I'd be better off returning both my N-SW and getting a single PoE switch and shoving it in the attic with a hard wire.

I really want to avoid tapping into my lights wiring to run a switch, as I can't easily run a new 12-2 or 14-2 run from my breaker box.


So...

Question is:
 
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I have one of those cheap passthrough switches and it has been working fine outdoors (in a waterproof enclosure) for a year now, powering three cameras. Ubiquiti has a similar model but it is more expensive.

You aren't going to need gigabit; each camera will max out at around 12-16 Mbps per stream probably.

The PoE+ (802.3at) "injector" that I would recommend is actually this: There are cheaper PoE switches out there too, but you have to draw the line somewhere. BVTech has at least been around for a while and their products look less cheap.
 
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I'm a little concerned that your micro PC is going to run hot and loud (assuming its fan can get loud) at too-high CPU usage. Especially if you introduce a virtualization layer, and doubly especially if you can't pass through the Intel GPU for quick sync in Blue Iris. I'd install Windows on bare metal, follow all the advice here, and consider running the 4K cams at 10 FPS rather than 15+.
 
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bp2008 said:
I'm a little concerned that your micro PC is going to run hot and loud (assuming its fan can get loud) at too-high CPU usage. Especially if you introduce a virtualization layer, and doubly especially if you can't pass through the Intel GPU for quick sync in Blue Iris. I'd install Windows on bare metal, follow all the advice here, and consider running the 4K cams at 10 FPS rather than 15+.
Click to expand...
Yep! I'm just going to run Windows 10 on the hardware itself; should be fine. Great insight though!

It'll be in my basement so heat/fans aren't a concern for me.

That's almost sad that you can get a full PoE+ Switch for less than many injectors for PoE+
 
Hey everyone!

So, a couple things to update:

I picked up (2) IPC-HFW2831T-ZS and an HDW4831EM-ASE 4MM a couple months ago and finally got them installed.

With my Synology it works fine, but Blue Iris shows almost a constant disconnection / network retry.

Is there something special that is needed with these cameras and Blue Iris? They were highly recommended on the forum, so I'm hoping I just am missing something obvious.

I've looked and can't find any specific forum posts about this issue; I've increased the buffer to 20MB just to be sure it wasn't that, but nothing else seems to help.

PC running it isn't over burdened at all, using Intel or Intel VPP doesn't change the issue.

I also don't seem to see any actual live video stream; it just shows a snapshot, then nothing, then disconnects, then reconnects.

Again, on a Synology it works without issue, so I doubt it's anything like the cabling (cat6 wired with rj45 B etc) running off a Ubiquiti 8-port POE+ switch, which also has the desktop hard wired into it.
 
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