I like things Virtual.

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by Tayschrenn, Aug 20, 2019.

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  1. Tayschrenn

    Tayschrenn n3wb

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    No, seriously - I am a VMWare/Hyper-V Senior Engineer and love me some virtual systems.

    But, physical security at my home is a growing priority.

    I picked up some Blink cameras (5 pack) aaaand am shipping them back this week, most likely.

    Been looking around a lot, and I think this is the route I'm going:

    • Optiplex Micro PC
      • Core i3-7300
      • 8gb DDR4
      • m.2 OS drive
      • Blue Iris
      • Enterprise 3.5 or 2.5 storage drive
        • Intention is to script a nightly archive to my Synology NAS
    • (2) Dahua 8MP Bullet PoE - North East / South East corners of my home
      • These will be angled to cross, centered on the top of my U shaped drive
    • (1) Dahua 8MP Turret - rear patio of my house
      • This will cover the only other entrance to my home, including the sidewalk approach
    • (???) Less expensive WiFi cameras for my wife's chicken coup/runs
    • Unifi 8-port switch
      • Probably going with the 4-poe 60W version for cost savings, I have PoE injectors for my Unifi wireless APs

    My big unknown is the overall setup/mounting and wiring i'll have to do. I'm comfortable with 90% of the configuration side, but running Cat6 in my attic and out my eves will be a new task for me =)

    I am still getting the CFO approval on the Dahua side - Amcrest and Reolink do have competitive options to me, more so as they have 8MP Wireles, which would be a MUCH easier deployment for my Patio, vs running a conduit for ethernet under my walkway.

    Anyways, look forward to digging into the forums more!

     
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  2. looney2ns

    looney2ns IPCT Contributor

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    Welcome.
    Study this from a real computer: Cliff Notes
    Study this as well: Choosing Hardware for Blue Iris | IP Cam Talk
    If you care about night vision, don't chase megapixels.
    Avoid:
    Wifi cams
    Reolink. Wink, Arlo, Nest, Ring, etc junk.
    Cloud based anything.
    Amcrest is rebadged Dahua, usually with some features stripped out.
    Read the many reviews here.
     
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  3. saltfish

    saltfish n3wb

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  4. looney2ns

    looney2ns IPCT Contributor

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  5. Tayschrenn

    Tayschrenn n3wb

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    Thanks - I did go through the Cliff Notes, and the hardware should be fine for my use case. I already have the optiplex, and the low-power is a win for where I intend on physically locating this. I actually am considering using an Enterprise 2.5" in the case itself (i.e a 2tb Constellation) otherwise i'll go a Skyhawk 3.5" external.

    I'll take the advice and just run cables; I'm 98% certain I can borrow tools from my office, and we have poles/tape/etc for that. Just need to not be lazy about it =D

    My thoughts for cameras are thus:
    Ideally I'd want a 6mm version of the IPC-HFW1831E - waiting to hear if Empire is able to source those =) -- my distance is just far enough that the 4mm would be a bit blurry; but I don't need wide angle for the camera(s)

    Then I'd go with a single IPC-HDW4831EM-ASE which would give a great 'up close' security camera with good night vision.

    Do you need GbE for 4k, or would 10/100 be enough on the PoE switch? They're cheaper than a full GbE, and I can use a dumb switch in front of a VLAN port on the uplink switch, assuming it's a GbE uplink. Otherwise I'll find one I can setup LACP with for additional throughput on the streams. I have a nice Juniper for my core if I need it, it just isn't PoE cries

    A question for the room at large though: Audio -- what's the best way to record audio? Are the built in decent enough or would it behoove me to invest in some form of dedicated audio recording (mainly for the up close camera)

    Thanks for the warm welcome and great advice!
     
  6. SouthernYankee

    SouthernYankee IPCT Contributor

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    :welcome:
    ----------------------------
    It is a snap to jam any wifi system...
    I assume from your camera choice you do not expect much night recording or you have a lot of light.

    Read,study, plan before spending money.
    ----------------------------
    My standard welcome to the forum message.

    Please read the cliff notes and other items in the wiki. The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

    Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) | IP Cam Talk in the wiki also.

    Quick start
    1) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras or ICPT Night eye cameras (https://store.ipcamtalk.com/) if you need good low light cameras.
    2) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
    3) Do not use wifi cameras.
    4) Do not use cloud storage
    5) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
    6) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
    7) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
    8) Do not use reolink, ring, nest cameras (they are junk)
    9) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
    10) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
    11) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
    12) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 8ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
    13) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
    14) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator V3

    Cameras to look at
    IPC-HDW2231R-ZS Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal
    IPC-HDW5231-ZE Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
    IPC-HFW4239T-ASE IPC-HFW4239T-ASE
    IPC-T5442TM-AS Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+)
    IPCT-HDW5431RE-I Review - IP Cam Talk 4 MP IR Fixed Turret Network Camera
    DS-2CD2325FWD-I

    My preferred indoor cameras
    DS-2CD2442FWD-IW
    IPC-K35A https://ipcamtalk.com/threads/review-dahua-ipc-k35a-3mp-cube-camera.37581/#post-373517


    Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
    Test do not guess
     
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  7. Tayschrenn

    Tayschrenn n3wb

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    Thanks! You're spot on - night is important but not critical for the bullet location(s) -- clear viewing at a distance is far more important. i.e. a car driving at around 30m away from the camera(s) I'd like to get the license plate of, in daylight.

    Which is why the 6mm version of the dahua is what I was going for; it looks like it's better than the 4mm for such distance
     
  8. J Sigmo

    J Sigmo Known around here

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    I will never again buy a bullet style camera for outdoor use. Unless you are in a spider-free zone, you should stay with turret (eyeball) style enclosures.

    The overhanging shades on bullet cams provide a place from which spiders will string webs out across the area in front of the lens and any built-in IR illuminators.

    Because the web is slightly away from the lens, it can be seen, moving in the breeze, causing endless motion alerts from the affected cameras.

    You'll be cleaning webs off of the cameras areas once per day. Some cameras may be easily reached, others difficult. You do not want to be up on a ladder sweeping away spider webs every day!

    Domes are also bad outdoors. They get dust or worse on the dome and they can be damaged by UV light if the sun can reach them.

    Go with turret style if at all possible.

    Also, consider using more lower megapixel cameras instead of fewer high megapixel units. The low light performance of the high pixel-count cameras is usually very bad. And the higher pixel count seems to mean more aggressive image compression, which ends up reducing the image quality such that the lower pixel count cameras can sometimes deliver better image quality, especially in low light.

    More lower pixel count cameras can give you better view angles and optical magnification (think zoom) than what you might get with fewer cameras trying to cover the same areas.

    I think people often feel that they can use just a few cameras to cover their property if they go with high pixel count units. But depending on the situation, you may be better off with more cameras, placed and zoomed to cover the areas more completely, and providing more angles of view of the same subjects.

    And keep in mind that to double the actual resolution, you must quadruple the number of pixels because it's the linear count of pixels that determines resolution.

    A 4MP camera has only 1.414 times the linear resolution of a 2MP camera. And that is only true if the optics are good enough to make those pixels really count, the compression doesn't destroy the quality, and those smaller photosites can be fed with enough extra light to compensate for their smaller surface area.

    Further, the smaller photosites cannot "hold as many electrons" (the so-called "full well capacity"). So with smaller photosites comes worse dynamic range because the upper limit of charge carriers any given sensel can hold is a smaller number. So the "resolution" of brightnesses goes down.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
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  9. Tayschrenn

    Tayschrenn n3wb

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    That's a good point on the bullets. I haven't found any turrets that can get the quality at the distance I need.

    I'm not trying for wide angle to cover greater area, I'm actually only going for a certain area I know I'll capture a license Plate at, but I physically don't have anything close to the spot from which to mount a camera.

    My intention is exactly what you advise, adding additional cameras to the other corners of the house as budget permits. For now, I'm covering the main approaches.

    I'll glance through the forum and see if anyone has any ideas on distance resolutions
     
  10. J Sigmo

    J Sigmo Known around here

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    Make sure to read the Wiki and the Cliff notes therein.

    There are some excellent tools to simulate your property and show what camera positions and what lens focal lengths (for a given sensor size) will give the angle of view necessary to achieve the DORI values you need, but I have not used them. I believe the one site people often recommend for that requires a subscription of some sort, but uses Google earth imagery of your actual property to do the analysis.

    Further, there are quite a few threads here devoted entirely to LPR (license plate reading), and lots of great help from folks, recommending certain cameras and settings for exactly that. License plate reading is a specialized application. People generally set up cameras just for LPR along with other cameras adjusted more for general viewing.

    You're on the right track, and have found the right place to get help and specialized advice.
     
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  11. looney2ns

    looney2ns IPCT Contributor

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    Tool is free for up to 4 cams.
    IPVM Camera Calculator V3
    Be sure to go here for LPR.
    LPR
     
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  12. biggen

    biggen Getting the hang of it

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    And if you want to stay virtual I created a post documenting my adventures with BI and xcp-ng. Very happy with the results.
     
  13. Tayschrenn

    Tayschrenn n3wb

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    I get this warm fuzzy nerd feeling whenever I read responses or threads here.

    You're all such awesome nerds.
    That's very good information. I'll be using vmware, so will make sure to verify pass through. Though honestly I could just run it on the box, it's not going to do anything else. If I went that route, I'd use an actual server, and my goal is minimal power consumption.
     
  14. biggen

    biggen Getting the hang of it

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    Unless you are really underpowered, I don't think you will need to worry about passthrough. It's more trouble than its worth.
     
  15. looney2ns

    looney2ns IPCT Contributor

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    Bazinga

    upload_2019-9-1_12-21-58.jpeg