Need Advice on 4 PTZ to Purchase

Captain_B

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Thank you for taking the time to read this post. I am a Newbie and in a very rural location with no man-made light, only moon and stars which due to weather only come out 5 months of the year. The 2 PTZ's need to cover up to 500 feet away and the other 2 PTZ's need to cover up to 300 feet away. I would like AI, Auto-tracking, and due to the amount of deer, Human detection so the PTZ's don't spend all their time zooming in on the wildlife. The application will be two PTZ's covering two open fields and one PTZ will be covering a long approach driveway with a security gate and the other PTZ will be on the driveway approach to the residence.

The two cameras I'm looking at are SD5A825-HNR-YA and the SD8A820WA-HNF, I'm open to suggestions on other cameras as well. One question I have, since operating in no light condition and only B/W IR at night, does the 4/3” 8Megapixel STARVIS™ CMOS in the 8A820 make a noticeable enough difference over the 1/1.8" 8Megapixel CMOS in the 5A825 for the $800 price difference?

One more question if I may, If you were building a new installation such as this and adding 12 additional fixed lens bullets to the 4 PTZ's, what specs should I take into consideration when selecting an NVR that needs to hold 2 weeks of storage and all the cameras will be 8MP?

Thank you again for taking the time to read this post and any and all help/suggestions/opinions will be greatly appreciated.
 

mat200

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Thank you for taking the time to read this post. I am a Newbie and in a very rural location with no man-made light, only moon and stars which due to weather only come out 5 months of the year. The 2 PTZ's need to cover up to 500 feet away and the other 2 PTZ's need to cover up to 300 feet away. I would like AI, Auto-tracking, and due to the amount of deer, Human detection so the PTZ's don't spend all their time zooming in on the wildlife. The application will be two PTZ's covering two open fields and one PTZ will be covering a long approach driveway with a security gate and the other PTZ will be on the driveway approach to the residence.

The two cameras I'm looking at are SD5A825-HNR-YA and the SD8A820WA-HNF, I'm open to suggestions on other cameras as well. One question I have, since operating in no light condition and only B/W IR at night, does the 4/3” 8Megapixel STARVIS™ CMOS in the 8A820 make a noticeable enough difference over the 1/1.8" 8Megapixel CMOS in the 5A825 for the $800 price difference?

One more question if I may, If you were building a new installation such as this and adding 12 additional fixed lens bullets to the 4 PTZ's, what specs should I take into consideration when selecting an NVR that needs to hold 2 weeks of storage and all the cameras will be 8MP?

Thank you again for taking the time to read this post and any and all help/suggestions/opinions will be greatly appreciated.
Welcome @Captain_B

If you are new to IP camera and PTZ cameras, perhaps start with one good camera and start to play with it.
 

SouthernYankee

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Start with one good camera, test your mounting locations, lens sizes. For what you appear to want to do look at Dahua IPC-HDW5442t-ZE or IPC-B5442E-Z4E


====================
My standard welcome to the forum message.

Read Study Plan before spending money
Cameras are for surveillance to get information for after the fact.

Please read the IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes and other items in the IP Cam Talk Wiki. (read on a real computer, not a phone). The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.



Quick start
1) If you do not have a wired monitored alarm system, get that first
2) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras if you need good low light cameras.
3) Start with a good variable focus camera, so you test for the correct lens,lighting, camera placement.
4) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
5) Do not use wifi cameras.
6) Do not use cloud storage
7) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
8) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
9) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
10) Do not use reolink, ring, nest, Arlo cameras (they are junk), no cloud cameras
11) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
12) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
13) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
14) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 7ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
15) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
16) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator V3
17) POE list PoE Switch Suggestion List
18) Camera Sensor size, bigger is general better Sensor Size Chart
19) Camera lens size, a bigger number give more range but less field of view. Which Security Camera Lens Size Should I Buy?
20) verify your camera placement, have a friend wearing a hoodie, ball cap and sunglasses looking down approach the house, can you identify them at night ?
21) DO NOT UPGRADE your NVR or camera firmware unless you absolutely have a problem that needs to be fixed and known what you are doing, if you do you will turn it into a brick !!

Cameras to look at
IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED . Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+) - 4MP starlight
.................... Dahua IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED review
IPC-T5442TM-AS ..... Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ - 4MP starlight+
IPC-HDW5442t-ZE .... Dahua IPC-HDW5442T-ZE 4MP Varifocal Turret - Night Perfomance testing -- variable focus 2.7 mm-12mm 4 MP Starlight
IPC-B5442E-ZE ...... Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+ -- variable 2.7mm-12mm bullet
IPC-B5442E-Z4E .... bullet 8mm-32mm variable focus zoom 4MP

IPC-HFW7442H-Z ..... Review - Dahua IPC-HFW7442H-Z 4MP Ultra AI Varifocal Bullet Camera -- 4 MP variable focus AI
IPC-T2347G-LU ...... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera. (DS-2CD2347G1-LU)
IPC-HDW2231R-ZS .... Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal
IPC-HDW2231T-ZS-S2 . Review-OEM IPC-T2231T-ZS Ver 2, 2mp Varifocal Starlight Camera
IPC-HDW5231R-ZE .... Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
IPC-HFW4239T-ASE ... IPC-HFW4239T-ASE
IPCT-HDW5431RE-I ... Review - IP Cam Talk 4 MP IR Fixed Turret Network Camera
IPC-T5241H-AS-PV ... Review-OEM IPC-T5241H-AS-PV 2mp AI active deterrence cam
IPC-T3241-ZAS ...... Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal -- 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal
IPC-HFW2831T-ZS ... Review-Dahua IPC-HFW2831T-ZS 8MP WDR IR Bullet Network Camera -- 8MP Bullet 1/1.8” sensor variable focus.
DS-2CD2325FWD-I
N22AL12 ............ New Dahua N22AL12 Budget Cam w/Starlight -- low cost entry
IPC-T2347G-LU....... Review-Loryta OEM 4MP IPC-T2347G-LU ColorVu Fixed Turret Network 4mm lens & Junction Box -- 4MP ColorVu
.................... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera.
SD49225XA-HNR ...... Review - Dahua SD49225XA-HNR 2MP 25x Starlight + IR PTZ AI Camera with Deep IVS & SMD Plus -- 2mp startlight AI

Other dahua 4MP starlight
My preferred indoor cameras
DS-2CD2442FWD-IW
IPC-K35A IPC-K42A

If interested in Blue Iris and other setup items see the following post

The best way to search the forum is to use Google
In the google search window enter.. site:ipcamtalk.com ?????? ..where ?????? is the items/terms you are interested in.
Example site:ipcamtalk.com PALE MOON BROWSER

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Do it right the first time saves money over having to do it twice.
Test do not guess
 

SouthernYankee

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if you are interested in International Dahua cameras, a forum member sells dahua (and some Hikvision) and ships world wide. You can read some of the members recommendations on his service. He also provides cameras to other forum member for evaluation and reviews.
You can email him for a quote, or purchase from his Aliexpress store or his Amazon store. The cameras are fully upgradable, he posts upgrade software when available.

I recommend email andy

Andy
@EMPIRETECANDY
kingsecurity2014@163.com
Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: EmpireTech Andy
Andy's AliExpress store: Empire Technology Co., Ltd - Amazing prodcuts with exclusive discounts on AliExpress
Andy's Amazon store: Amazon.com
 

EMPIRETECANDY

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Thank you for taking the time to read this post. I am a Newbie and in a very rural location with no man-made light, only moon and stars which due to weather only come out 5 months of the year. The 2 PTZ's need to cover up to 500 feet away and the other 2 PTZ's need to cover up to 300 feet away. I would like AI, Auto-tracking, and due to the amount of deer, Human detection so the PTZ's don't spend all their time zooming in on the wildlife. The application will be two PTZ's covering two open fields and one PTZ will be covering a long approach driveway with a security gate and the other PTZ will be on the driveway approach to the residence.

The two cameras I'm looking at are SD5A825-HNR-YA and the SD8A820WA-HNF, I'm open to suggestions on other cameras as well. One question I have, since operating in no light condition and only B/W IR at night, does the 4/3” 8Megapixel STARVIS™ CMOS in the 8A820 make a noticeable enough difference over the 1/1.8" 8Megapixel CMOS in the 5A825 for the $800 price difference?

One more question if I may, If you were building a new installation such as this and adding 12 additional fixed lens bullets to the 4 PTZ's, what specs should I take into consideration when selecting an NVR that needs to hold 2 weeks of storage and all the cameras will be 8MP?

Thank you again for taking the time to read this post and any and all help/suggestions/opinions will be greatly appreciated.
500ft with low light place, i recommend to use the laser one SD6AL433XA-HNR 33X Zoom, with 1./1.8cmos, this is the latest PTZ. 2.0 version.
SD8A820WA-HNF, This one is ultra smart models, but too expensive, around 1700usd.
SD5A825-HNR-YA , this one not very good, blurry at night.

FIxed camera, check IPC-T5442TM-AS or IPC-T5442T-ZE
 

SouthernYankee

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Zape

Look at what the OP was looking at. He does not want the POS reolink. They do not work at night with motion. He is looking for a camera with 500 FT at night.
 
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bigredfish

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500ft with low light place, i recommend to use the laser one SD6AL433XA-HNR 33X Zoom, with 1./1.8cmos, this is the latest PTZ. 2.0 version.
SD8A820WA-HNF, This one is ultra smart models, but too expensive, around 1700usd.
SD5A825-HNR-YA , this one not very good, blurry at night.

FIxed camera, check IPC-T5442TM-AS or IPC-T5442T-ZE
Not a PTZ expert by any means, but the 6 series he points out with the 1/1.8 sensor and laser IR would be my choice. It will be my next PTZ for our neighborhood with views from 400-600 feet.
 

wittaj

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Notwithstanding the issues folks have pointed out on this forum, according to their website, the Reolink most powerful PTZ is only a 2.7mm to 12mm zoom lens. That is basically a turret varifocal with the pan and tilt added on. Hardly capable of 500 feet at night under any condition...not even daytime at 500 feet....
 

The Automation Guy

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Normally I would recommend NOT using PTZ cameras. (They are designed to be used in situations where they are being monitored 24/7 by a live person that can move the camera as needed. Sure today's cameras have better AI, but there is still a huge chance that the camera will be pointing the wrong direction to capture something important. So it is generally better to buy fixed cameras even if it means buying more cameras to cover the desired area. Fixed cameras are always pointing in the right direction to capture important events. Here is the kicker however, PTZ cameras have a much higher cost than fixed cameras. Many times you can buy 2,3 or even 4 or more fixed cameras for the same price as the PTZ camera (assuming equal picture quality). So not only will fixed cameras provide better coverage, they might actually cost less than a couple PTZ cameras).

That being said, you might have to get an expensive PTZ camera if you really want to reach out 500ft.

I would highly recommend you play around with the IPVM camera calculator site (IPVM Camera Calculator V3). You can put in your address to pull up a satellite image of your property and then "place" different cameras to compare them. Be sure to pay close attention to the ppf data (pixels per face) under "simulated person". In order to have an image that is detailed enough to provide identification of a stranger, you need to have over 75 ppf with good light and even higher (150 ppf) in questionable lighting situations (like IR).

As far as your two PTZ camera suggestions, it looks like the SD8A820WA-HNF with it's higher resolution is the only good option if you really want to identify someone 500' away using the camera. The other choice will zoom out that far, but the resolution is going to be just a little too low to provide the sharp images you need for identification.

The other thing you have to think about is how to mount these cameras. You better have a rock solid mount if you are trying to zoom out that far. Every tiny vibration or movement (from wind, sound, vibrations from people walking around near the camera, etc) will be extremely magnified. They could easily make an image unusable just due to the vibrations.
 
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The Automation Guy

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I'd also recommend that you look at putting regular fixed cameras at the end of the driveway at the gate. Again, I think the overall results will be much better using a camera that is much closer to the potential targets/subjects than trying to use a camera over 500ft away. Even if you have to pay someone to run fiber (so that electrical surges, like from lightning, are not an issue), the cost might still be considerably less than trying to do it with a PTZ camera.
 
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Captain_B

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I big thank you goes out to all who took the time to post your suggestions and opinions. I have spent this week reading so many posts, all full of great information and advice. I have decided to totally redesign my layout/camera placement based on your above post. My plan now is to use IPC-HDW5442T-ZE as my triggers to alert the DH-SD8A820WA-HNF PTZ with its very large 4/3 sensor to turn their way and capture an image, then send me a text alert on my iPhone so we can intercept before they make it to the residence. The PTZ will be in a central location at the residence that can cover both long approaches and use the 5442's at the gate and other locations.

My next focus is on Smart NVR with great AI, any suggestions that will work best with this setup? Also, some of these cable runs are very long, up to 650 feet away, any suggestions on PoE switches/extenders that can be located at the NVR for the (12) 5442's, (1) LPR, and (1) 8A820?

What is the best direct burial cable to buy for these long runs?
Does anyone know if the 5442 can be used as "spotters" to signal the 8A820?
What's the best Dahua LPR camera to mount at the gate?

Being in a remote location that has no man-made outdoor light has made this a real challenge. Your help and advice with the available surveillance technologies will help us achieve our objective of keeping intruders away from the residence. If you can think of any suggestions, equipment, mounts, tools, extras I need to order please let me know, I would greatly appreciate it.

Once again, a big thank you to all who have posted, I appreciate your willingness to take the time to share your wisdom and experience with me.
 
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